Ohio University great news for all.
- Thread starter CoachYing
- Start date
Odd, but why didn’t suckerdrag post this? I mean, he kept this going and going telling us how horrible this was. Where’s Old142 who called the coaches pos’s? Seems like they went the extra mile with interviews and consults with medical professionals and concluded NOTHING criminal happened. Hard to believe the police and prosecutor didn’t take into consideration the perspective of a few dumb Yapsters when reaching this conclusion.
You made me laugh. That’s great.
chanelhvywts
Member
SuckerDrag made some serious allegations not shocking knowing who Sucker Drag actually is. I know my Son ( Coach Cody Walters) and I know Coach Greenlee and Coach Shakur.
As I said in the original Sucker Drag post when he was slinging the serious allegations that if that were true Coaches would go to jail. I couldn’t say much more because the investigation was under way.
However I do know my Son and I looked my son in the eyes I knew the truth immediately!
Also then learning that the OU trainer was in the practice from start to finish and witnessed everything in that practice and NOT one kid went to the trainer hurt at practice or after. How can that be and you damn well know that if a trainer witnessed assault or abuse there is no way that trainer would ign
This was all meant to ruin a program ruin careers and the lives of those coaches. What boggles my mind how can you love the sport of wrestling and say these things especially when neither sucker drag nor sucker drag jr was at practice.
All those allegations that were posted with intent to cause damage not only to OUs program or those coaches but to the sport itself. No other sports competitors endure what wrestlers endure from the extreme physical training the discipline and sacrifice the diet the mental anguish. There is only one way to prepare to wrestle especially at a championship level not to mention the D1 college level of all Americans or average wrestlers.
Anyone not knowing the sport of wrestling that went to a wrestling practice at any level would be shocked at the level of commitment and dedication wrestlers have! Most wrestlers are just down right tough then there are the wannabes that go through the motions and are tough when they can be but when it comes down to it they looked for the easy way out definitely don’t push themselves and it all washes out in the end!
I was in Marine Corps BootCamp when I realized that mental toughness was the key ingredient to wrestling. Without mental toughness there is no damn way you can train hard enough and endure everything it takes to be a champion. As a High School coach today my biggest focus is pushing my wrestlers to be mentally tough which today is not easy to do especially with people that want it all the easy way or look to blame instead of looking in the mirror!
I taught my son from day 1 that there is now easy way out that pain is part of the process ! Failing will build you so long as you don’t cry about it but you bust your to not allow it to happen again.
I know I have said a lot but after watching 3 coaches go through this Investigation for four months and have them be treated like some monsters from people of the wrestling family was so hard to endure! Coach Greenlee is one of the greatest men I have ever met and I know damn well he would do anything for his wrestlers! His assistant Coaches are no different!
if these false allegations would have stuck this would have been a black eye on the sport. Imagine the best wrestling programs in the country then think to yourselves just how physical those practices must be. Because of you watch the National wrestling championships you don’t get there without blood sweat and tears and definitely with no PAIN!
This entire thing was disgusting and disgraceful!!
Im sorry for rambling on !
Jason Walters
Head Coach
Nordonia High School
Proud Father of
Cody Walters and friend of
Coach Greenlee and Laney!
As I said in the original Sucker Drag post when he was slinging the serious allegations that if that were true Coaches would go to jail. I couldn’t say much more because the investigation was under way.
However I do know my Son and I looked my son in the eyes I knew the truth immediately!
Also then learning that the OU trainer was in the practice from start to finish and witnessed everything in that practice and NOT one kid went to the trainer hurt at practice or after. How can that be and you damn well know that if a trainer witnessed assault or abuse there is no way that trainer would ign
This was all meant to ruin a program ruin careers and the lives of those coaches. What boggles my mind how can you love the sport of wrestling and say these things especially when neither sucker drag nor sucker drag jr was at practice.
All those allegations that were posted with intent to cause damage not only to OUs program or those coaches but to the sport itself. No other sports competitors endure what wrestlers endure from the extreme physical training the discipline and sacrifice the diet the mental anguish. There is only one way to prepare to wrestle especially at a championship level not to mention the D1 college level of all Americans or average wrestlers.
Anyone not knowing the sport of wrestling that went to a wrestling practice at any level would be shocked at the level of commitment and dedication wrestlers have! Most wrestlers are just down right tough then there are the wannabes that go through the motions and are tough when they can be but when it comes down to it they looked for the easy way out definitely don’t push themselves and it all washes out in the end!
I was in Marine Corps BootCamp when I realized that mental toughness was the key ingredient to wrestling. Without mental toughness there is no damn way you can train hard enough and endure everything it takes to be a champion. As a High School coach today my biggest focus is pushing my wrestlers to be mentally tough which today is not easy to do especially with people that want it all the easy way or look to blame instead of looking in the mirror!
I taught my son from day 1 that there is now easy way out that pain is part of the process ! Failing will build you so long as you don’t cry about it but you bust your to not allow it to happen again.
I know I have said a lot but after watching 3 coaches go through this Investigation for four months and have them be treated like some monsters from people of the wrestling family was so hard to endure! Coach Greenlee is one of the greatest men I have ever met and I know damn well he would do anything for his wrestlers! His assistant Coaches are no different!
if these false allegations would have stuck this would have been a black eye on the sport. Imagine the best wrestling programs in the country then think to yourselves just how physical those practices must be. Because of you watch the National wrestling championships you don’t get there without blood sweat and tears and definitely with no PAIN!
This entire thing was disgusting and disgraceful!!
Im sorry for rambling on !
Jason Walters
Head Coach
Nordonia High School
Proud Father of
Cody Walters and friend of
Coach Greenlee and Laney!
Buckeye454
Member
I've got no dog in this fight, know no one in or around the program in the slightest, and I've only been following along loosely so please don't take this personally or the wrong way. This is in no way of statement about whether or not there was any wrongdoing.
I'm can tell you from personal experience wrestling at the Division 1 level that the trainer works for the school and is in some cases, heavily incentivized to act in the best interest of the school.
I personally watched our trainer cheat the hydration testing, witness athletes being hurt during practice and clear athletes to wrestle when they could barely walk (one several confirmed fractures in an ankle) at the head coach's not-so-gentle encouragement. Wasn't too long ago ODU lost a substantial lawsuit for "strongly encouraging" an athlete to wrestle after a number of concussions and causing significant, lifelong medical problems.
Now again, I know nobody in or around the program and I'm not at all saying that this happened at OU, just saying that the presence of the athletic trainer in a division one wrestling room means next to nothing in my experience.
Where there is smoke, there is typically fire. Just because the county prosecutor said that he didn't feel like there was enough evidence to take it to court doesn't mean that some unacceptable behavior didn't happen. I don't know if an "I told you so" or victory dance aimed at those critical of the incident is warranted. The fact is that the accusations and subsequent several month long investigation is already a black eye on the sport and the program no matter what the outcome was.
To be completely fair to OU staff, I agree that somebody not familiar with wrestling could walk into nearly any division one (and probably many D2 and D3) room across the country and see things that they didn't think were acceptable. To be successful with the highest level, that is likely necessary.
Again, no personal dog in the fight, I understand both sides of it and the fact is that nobody that wasn't in the room will ever know for sure what exactly went down. And even if we did, we would all probably have different opinions on how egregious it was.
It will certainly be interesting to see how this affects their incoming class/ recruiting over the next couple of years.
While you say your comment doesn’t bear on whether anything did or didn’t happen, you allude to the fact the trainer at your college was a cheat so it’s possible that this trainer did too. There’s a huge difference between your trainer cheating at hydration or clearing injured wrestlers than one being interviewed by the cops and understanding that a false statement would subject them to prosecution themselves. You’re also disregarding the word of medical professionals who reviewed the alleged injuries and pretty much the rest of the team minus the malcontents.
I enjoy wrestling
Well-known member
What is " excessive but not malicious" ?
Buckeye454
Member
I'm really not sure what you mean by "alluded"... But it seems that you go on to insinuate that I'm saying that the athletic trainer lied. I certainly never meant to "allude" to that. In fact, in the original post that I quoted, there was no mention of a statement by the athletic trainer. I took that post to mean that the athletic trainer didn't say anything (and definitely would have had something gone wrong). As I stated several times, I have only been following the story loosely and have no insider knowledge of the situation.
Again, I was simply offering that these athletic trainers are often under pressure from their coach/school. These pressures can absolutely influence their decisions. I would venture to say that most folks here have experience with high school athletic trainers (generally paid for by the local health care system, not the school). High school athletic trainers in general air. Very hard on the side of caution for two reasons: 1. The hospital system that they're sending the kids to for evaluation is paying their salary (the healthcare system is literally paying for referrals) and 2. There is immense liability when you're talking about teenage kids. I'm not sure how many have experience in a D1 college room. The dynamic, again in my experience and based on several stories I've shared with fellow wrestlers over the years, is very different. Those trainers are being paid for by the college. They answer to the college, and I'm sure to varying extents to the coaching staff.
I never made any reference to the "medical professional", but I'm happy to address that since you did. I can only assume that you are talking about the "college wrestler and ER doctor" that was referred to in the story. The release stated that after he was debriefed by police, he felt "The medical records obtained did not document any specific injury" and "activity during practice was excessive but not egregious".
The first half of that statement literally just says the police didn't turn over any records to him that documented a specific injury. I'm not sure what anybody thinks that's proof of... He's just stating that the police didn't hand him a report that had a documented injury in it. Frankly, that's a little weird right? Somebody went to the hospital to be checked out for an injury right? So I'm not even sure how that's possible if they had all of the medical records to review. What did the medical records say the kid came to the hospital for?
The second half of the statement "excessive but not egregious" has nothing to do with his status as a medical professional. That's his opinion based on second hand information, actually probably third hand or worse information, from the police debriefing likely in the context of being a former collegiant wrestler. I think we can all agree that most any medical doctor without collegiant wrestling experience would have a tough time giving an accurate opinion of a wrestling practice and most would think that the activity was egregious. it is an egregious amount of effort by most standards and we've all already agreed that it's necessary to be successful. There's no controversy there.
So, in summary about the medical professional: I'm not disregarding anything that he said, I'm simply reading what he said at face value and not treating it as eyewitness testimony.
On a side note, as a medical professional, I'm here to tell you that you shouldn't be taking everything that your doctor says as gospel. That's a whole different conversation, but "medical professionals" are people too. There's great ones, and there's bad ones. There's Gandhis and their snake oil salesman as well.
Finally, I'm not sure why you think I have dismissed the rest of the team's testimony: I have neither read or referenced in my comments any statements by the rest of the team. I openly and repeatedly stated that I have not been following the situation closely, I do not have all of the information, and I am absolutely not making a judgment on whether or not people were in the right or wrong or should be fired or any of that.
I was simply offering that the logic "the athletic trainer would have said something if something bad happened" may be flawed based on the trainer's relationship to the coaches and institution at that level.
By all means: believe what you wish, most people do.
So basically, you have simply offered conjecture to illustrate that although you don’t have any real knowledge about this it’s possible all of the professionals who spent months investigating this may have gotten it wrong based on your personal experiences that have nothing to do with this specific case. Got it! Have a great night!I'm really not sure what you mean by "alluded"... But it seems that you go on to insinuate that I'm saying that the athletic trainer lied. I certainly never meant to "allude" to that. In fact, in the original post that I quoted, there was no mention of a statement by the athletic trainer. I took that post to mean that the athletic trainer didn't say anything (and definitely would have had something gone wrong). As I stated several times, I have only been following the story loosely and have no insider knowledge of the situation.
Again, I was simply offering that these athletic trainers are often under pressure from their coach/school. These pressures can absolutely influence their decisions. I would venture to say that most folks here have experience with high school athletic trainers (generally paid for by the local health care system, not the school). High school athletic trainers in general air. Very hard on the side of caution for two reasons: 1. The hospital system that they're sending the kids to for evaluation is paying their salary (the healthcare system is literally paying for referrals) and 2. There is immense liability when you're talking about teenage kids. I'm not sure how many have experience in a D1 college room. The dynamic, again in my experience and based on several stories I've shared with fellow wrestlers over the years, is very different. Those trainers are being paid for by the college. They answer to the college, and I'm sure to varying extents to the coaching staff.
I never made any reference to the "medical professional", but I'm happy to address that since you did. I can only assume that you are talking about the "college wrestler and ER doctor" that was referred to in the story. The release stated that after he was debriefed by police, he felt "The medical records obtained did not document any specific injury" and "activity during practice was excessive but not egregious".
The first half of that statement literally just says the police didn't turn over any records to him that documented a specific injury. I'm not sure what anybody thinks that's proof of... He's just stating that the police didn't hand him a report that had a documented injury in it. Frankly, that's a little weird right? Somebody went to the hospital to be checked out for an injury right? So I'm not even sure how that's possible if they had all of the medical records to review. What did the medical records say the kid came to the hospital for?
The second half of the statement "excessive but not egregious" has nothing to do with his status as a medical professional. That's his opinion based on second hand information, actually probably third hand or worse information, from the police debriefing likely in the context of being a former collegiant wrestler. I think we can all agree that most any medical doctor without collegiant wrestling experience would have a tough time giving an accurate opinion of a wrestling practice and most would think that the activity was egregious. it is an egregious amount of effort by most standards and we've all already agreed that it's necessary to be successful. There's no controversy there.
So, in summary about the medical professional: I'm not disregarding anything that he said, I'm simply reading what he said at face value and not treating it as eyewitness testimony.
On a side note, as a medical professional, I'm here to tell you that you shouldn't be taking everything that your doctor says as gospel. That's a whole different conversation, but "medical professionals" are people too. There's great ones, and there's bad ones. There's Gandhis and their snake oil salesman as well.
Finally, I'm not sure why you think I have dismissed the rest of the team's testimony: I have neither read or referenced in my comments any statements by the rest of the team. I openly and repeatedly stated that I have not been following the situation closely, I do not have all of the information, and I am absolutely not making a judgment on whether or not people were in the right or wrong or should be fired or any of that.
I was simply offering that the logic "the athletic trainer would have said something if something bad happened" may be flawed based on the trainer's relationship to the coaches and institution at that level.
By all means: believe what you wish, most people do.
MPhillips
Well-known member
Your trainer cheated and you, "alluded" to the fact that the OU trainer may have cheated as well.
10 Inch Falcon
Well-known member
His HS trainer did clear him at his whim to be fair
Buckeye454
Member
College trainer. Again, the high school trainer is employed the vast majority of the time by the local healthcare system. I don't know that I have ever witnessed a high school trainer put the kid back in harm's way too soon... there is no incentive for them to do it under that system. Before anybody gives me a tongue lashing: I'm sure that it is possible that a high school athletic trainer could clear somebody before they're ready to come back. I've just never seen it with my eyes. Please don't take this to mean that I am "alluding" to the fact that it isn't possible.
@CoachYing: I see that you deleted your late night rant about my "non-wrestler" mentality and what a coward I am for hiding behind a screen name. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to respond before you decided to redact those statements, but I did read them. Certainly if blindly trusting that authority figures (coaches, trainers, administration, educators, etc) are 100% correct and moral at all times is the "mentality of a wrestler", you are quite correct sir: I ain't got it. Even the best of us are human and get it wrong sometimes. I have witnessed many coaches, wrestling athletes in my time, both as a coach and an athlete. It is not unusual for an athlete to get upset or frustrated with that experience - happens all the time. This can be a valuable experience for the athlete and help with mental, emotional, and physical growth. It's not an anomaly. What is an anomaly is a coaching staff being put on administrative leave for 3 to 6 months while a criminal investigation is completed. Again, not "alluding" to any thing other than what I said. Any conclusions you draw from those statements are your own.
So far as the screen name goes: If you prefer to get on the internet and rant under your real name and you believe that makes you a real man, kudos. That's not how I measure my manhood, but I think we've already established that you and I view the world a little differently, so this shouldn't come as much of a surprise.
Globally: I was under the impression that the purpose of a forum was to discuss varying views and opinions. I did not realize that my comments and personal experience would be so triggering to other members of Yappi! My sincere apologies gentlemen. I'll do my best to stick to "thumbs ups" from now on
MPhillips
Well-known member
Coaches back in the room?
Have read Yappi for years, this is my first post because people are so arrogant and today it struck a nerve.
Seems to me like there are alot of fathers that seems not to be able to let go of their youth and live vicariously through their children. Big personalities that probably fell short in their careers so instead they need to sound off on Yappi. Get over it and yourselves -
Lets be real, we all know in todays world if you want something to go away you can make it happen.
Seems to me like there are alot of fathers that seems not to be able to let go of their youth and live vicariously through their children. Big personalities that probably fell short in their careers so instead they need to sound off on Yappi. Get over it and yourselves -
Lets be real, we all know in todays world if you want something to go away you can make it happen.
What does this mean?