Ohio High school football not as powerful as once was?

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Ohio had 13 players drafted in 2019:

T George Asafo-Adjei New York Giants (7) Kentucky Lakota West (West Chester)
DB Marquise Blair Seattle (2) Utah Wooster
WR Parris Campbell Indianapolis (2) Ohio State St. Vincent-St. Mary (Akron)
DE John Cominsky Atlanta (4) Charleston (West Virginia) Barberton
G Michael Deiter Miami (3) Wisconsin Genoa
DB Mike Edwards Tampa Bay (3) Kentucky Winton Woods (Cincinnati)
WR Andy Isabella Arizona (2) Massachusetts Mayfield (Cleveland)
DT Dre’Mont Jones Denver (3) Ohio State St. Ignatius (Cleveland)
DB Justin Layne Pittsburgh (3) Michigan State Benedictine (Cleveland)
LB David Long Tennessee (6) West Virginia Winton Woods (Cleveland)
G Wes Martin Washington (4) Indiana Milton Union (West Milton)
RB David Montgomery Chicago (3) Iowa State Mount Healthy (Cincinnati)
RB Benny Snell Pittsburgh (4) Kentucky Westerville Central (Westerville)

This tied for 4th with the state of Georgia. Only Florida, Texas, and California were ahead of Ohio.
I think it is down a bit but it is tough to quantify without doing some serious research.

The topic at hand is HS football and if you look at when Moeller/Iggy/McKinley were all top ranked 9 times from 76'-97' and Ohio has only been tops one time since with St. X in 07' it says something. We all get fixated on BIG. Regardless, as I stated, no other state minus Texas takes football as serious as Ohio. You have to look at the body of work and when it comes to top to bottom Ohio is tough to beat.
 

jeroe

Well-known member
You hit the nail square...

Ohio has a lot of small schools with football teams. This is a good thing. Way more kids get to play who would probably not even try in a school of 3000+ boys.

I rarely goto a D1 Ohio football games. Is all mostly D5 or lower. As our population gets smaller some schools are going to have to do something about the low numbers of students who want to play football.
I agree there is no benefit or need for creating massive enrollment schools. The question initially and statement was around the quality of Ohio football and in some pockets the belief that there is a massive drop off because of teams watched on ESPN. Evaluating Ohio teams vs teams in Texas or Florida is an apples to oranges comparison. If as I have stated in Canton, Ohio in some alternate universe they combined these schools, built a football team and put them on ESPN people would be extremely impressed with the athletes, and the Xs and Os that they were watching!
 

K-Robby

New member
It would be interesting to run a "ACC/Big Ten Challenge" type of exchange with another state (I know it's not possible). I think Ohio would come out at least even with an apples-to-apples set of match ups with any state in country. However, having spring football would provide an enormous advantage for the same reason a bowl game means so much to college programs - more time on the fundamentals.

I think the talent - everywhere - is slowly concentrating to a relatively limited number of private schools and toward large public districts in which many families can afford camps and specialized training if they have a child that shows athletic promise. Once you're on the outside of that equation, it's tough to get back in.
I too would love to see more "made for TV", or hand-picked match ups, between Ohio powers and others. I think that the emphasis on schools and conferences stocking up on computer points in the non-conference season causes a lot of hesitation in scheduling elite teams, even in-state, let alone signing up to play a game they could lose against an out of state team. "Publicity" or "attention" may seem like a good motivation to do this, but as soon as perennial powers drop a few games and end up as a 6 or 7 seed, or out altogether, in the playoffs because they didn't get their normal sweep of the non-conference slate, it will end. In the past couple years I would have loved to see Marion Local play Pioneer in Indiana, or any given year would love to see ANY good MAC team play Lafayette Central Catholic or Indianapolis Lutheran. It wouldn't be any real road trip at all for Coldwater or ML or Loramie to play Adams Central in Indiana, or Monroe Central less than 30 minutes into Indiana over from Union City. ML has played a 2A school from Indiana the past two years. No contest. They were also rebuilding after a state finals run the year before the matchup began.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I think a big reason why Ohio State isn’t on national tv is because 1. No team is loaded with top recruits year in and year out (except Princeton this year, but they weren’t a very good team) so no team gets recognition and 2. No team is consistently winning state year in and year out, outside of Hoban the past few years. 2018 Hoban I think could have gave teams like Bosco or DeMatha a game on national TV, and they have some top recruits.
 

falcons53

Active member
We see the same argument from people here in El Paso Texas compared to the other large cities. El Paso's largest school has under 3000 total enrollment. That is less than half Allen, but we play in the same division as them and others. When the schools grow here, they build a new school to allow for smaller classroom size and more opportunities for students.

Knowing what goes on in Allen, Arlington, etc., they are in an arms race. They recruit nationally, not just Texas. They have oil money and industry to give jobs to family members to move there. It is the same things that used to happen with the steel mills back in the day. Last year Allen Texas graduates won both the Heisman (Kyler Murray) and Hodge Wrestler of the Year Award (Bo Nickel). Neither grew up in Allen.

I guess for me having lived in 8 states and had kids play sports, and I attended games everywhere I lived even before my kids were old enough, Ohio is still right up there. Yeah, California and Texas have more top end talent, but also population advantages.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
Knowing what goes on in Allen, Arlington, etc., they are in an arms race. They recruit nationally, not just Texas. They have oil money and industry to give jobs to family members to move there. It is the same things that used to happen with the steel mills back in the day. Last year Allen Texas graduates won both the Heisman (Kyler Murray) and Hodge Wrestler of the Year Award (Bo Nickel). Neither grew up in Allen.
Well Nickal might be the best wrestler in NCAA history, so it’s not like that happens every year. I can’t name any other great wrestlers that have come out of Allen, or football players on the level of Kyler Murray.
 

falcons53

Active member
Well Nickal might be the best wrestler in NCAA history, so it’s not like that happens every year. I can’t name any other great wrestlers that have come out of Allen, or football players on the level of Kyler Murray.

Not to make this about Texas as I am Ohio all the way. Allen wrestling has won Texas state every year since 2009-10 season and have the #1 recruit in the nation AJ Ferrari (Oklahoma State). Texas wrestling isn't ranked highly, but Allen has been ranked nationally. Allen football has won 4 state titles since 2012 and has been a playoff team every year since 2001. They have a handful of NFL players the last decade besides Murray. They are pretty well known in football. The pure size and wealth of the school makes them pretty strong in just about every sport.

I still love Ohio football though!!
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
Not to make this about Texas as I am Ohio all the way. Allen wrestling has won Texas state every year since 2009-10 season and have the #1 recruit in the nation AJ Ferrari (Oklahoma State). Texas wrestling isn't ranked highly, but Allen has been ranked nationally. Allen football has won 4 state titles since 2012 and has been a playoff team every year since 2001. They have a handful of NFL players the last decade besides Murray. They are pretty well known in football. The pure size and wealth of the school makes them pretty strong in just about every sport.

I still love Ohio football though!!
I absolutely understand how powerful Allen sports are, especially in football they are up there with De La Salle as one of the top programs this decade. I’m just saying they aren’t spitting out people like Nickal and Murray every class, but they do produce a lot of talent. Imagine how talented and competitive you have to be to earn a starting spot at that school!
 

ELMIKE2K2

Member
Imagine the team the four GCL schools and Colerain could put together, or Pick Central and North along with the two Hilliard schools, or Ed’s-Iggy-Mentor-Euclid, or even the two Massillon schools, McKinley, and Hoban. I’d put those 4 combo teams against anyone, including any of the Texas schools and any of the football academies.
There are actually three Hilliard schools. A more lethal combination than the Hilliard schools would be combining the Dublin, Westerville and Olentangy schools together considering they have more talent than Hiliard.
 

ELMIKE2K2

Member
False. Who has Martisburg ever played that is the caliber of a top 20 Ohio squad let alone a state finalist. Take it from someone who watched football on a national level. Ohio football is fine and is still among the best. 20 for 20 Ohio would overwhelm California who is easily the weakest of the power football states. Texas plays a very soft brand of football and their best teams refuse to leave the state to play the better teams in the country. Florida is in the same boat as Ohio except for the talent is better overall in Florida but the teams are better in Ohio.
Whoa, actually if you put the top 20 Ohio teams against the top 20 California teams Ohio would probably be favored in and win maybe five games depending on the match ups and would get blown out just like the other top teams from around the country against the top teams from the Trinity League. You think Ohio private schools are stack, we have nothing on the privates from California. Who do you have from Ohio playing against the likes of Mater Dei, St John Bosco, Servite Academy, and J Serra, or maybe against top public schools like Cornona Centennial, Mission Viejo, the rest of the Trinity League as well as the privates from within LA? The GCL schools alone with Colerain, Pickerington Central, and Mentor would only be favored in games not including Mater Dei, St John Bosco, and De Lasalle in which any one of them would get blown out such as was the case of St Xavier getting taken out back in 2016 by St John Bosco at Nippert 34 to 0. California isn't by any means the weakest of the power football states which was demonstated this past years in the beating inflicted by both Mater Dei and St John Bosco on top schools (mostly IMG and other privates) from around the country the past couple of years. Bishop Gorman which of course is out of Las Vegas, had a over 30 game win streak win Tate Martel was playing there was basically made up of players from southern california.
 

nptb

Member
Whoa, actually if you put the top 20 Ohio teams against the top 20 California teams Ohio would probably be favored in and win maybe five games depending on the match ups and would get blown out just like the other top teams from around the country against the top teams from the Trinity League. You think Ohio private schools are stack, we have nothing on the privates from California. Who do you have from Ohio playing against the likes of Mater Dei, St John Bosco, Servite Academy, and J Serra, or maybe against top public schools like Cornona Centennial, Mission Viejo, the rest of the Trinity League as well as the privates from within LA? The GCL schools alone with Colerain, Pickerington Central, and Mentor would only be favored in games not including Mater Dei, St John Bosco, and De Lasalle in which any one of them would get blown out such as was the case of St Xavier getting taken out back in 2016 by St John Bosco at Nippert 34 to 0. California isn't by any means the weakest of the power football states which was demonstated this past years in the beating inflicted by both Mater Dei and St John Bosco on top schools (mostly IMG and other privates) from around the country the past couple of years. Bishop Gorman which of course is out of Las Vegas, had a over 30 game win streak win Tate Martel was playing there was basically made up of players from southern california.
I was at the St. John Bosco vs St. X game. SJB won that game because they had better skill kids out wide and that was it. I told a friend before the game that the SJB quarterback would house 1 because he's the fastest player on the field and on the 3rd play of the game that's what he did. They threw 2 slants that went about 160 yards combined. That was their offense the whole game. St. X was able to get in side the redzone on 4 different occasions in the first half and came up empty because of great plays by their db's to force fumbles and a goal line stand. Physically those teams were equal but St. X didn't have the athletes out wide to hurt SJB. If SJB would have matched up with Colerain it would have been a very low scoring game because SJB wouldn't have been able to out athlete Colerain which is all they did to St. X.

As far as the Trinity league is concerned. Two teams doesn't make a whole league great. Mater Dei and SJB are the only Trinity League squads playing OOS schedule and there is a reason for that. The other squads would get humiliated. De Lasalle hasn't beat a relevant OOS opponent in quite some time. Corono Centennial wouldn't stop anyone that is decent from scoring. Their whole persona is to outscore you. They refuse to punt. Who have Servite, Mission Viejo and J Serra beaten ever that make them some power? I'll wait for your answer. Again I follow high school football nationally.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I was at the St. John Bosco vs St. X game. SJB won that game because they had better skill kids out wide and that was it. I told a friend before the game that the SJB quarterback would house 1 because he's the fastest player on the field and on the 3rd play of the game that's what he did. They threw 2 slants that went about 160 yards combined. That was their offense the whole game. St. X was able to get in side the redzone on 4 different occasions in the first half and came up empty because of great plays by their db's to force fumbles and a goal line stand. Physically those teams were equal but St. X didn't have the athletes out wide to hurt SJB. If SJB would have matched up with Colerain it would have been a very low scoring game because SJB wouldn't have been able to out athlete Colerain which is all they did to St. X.
I’m going to assume Bosco’s QB then was Re-Al Mitchell. Kid was a tremendous athlete but didn’t really have the skills to be a top tier
QB. Still a fantastic player though.

Also, That’s the same reason Ignatius got embarrassed by DeMatha this year, DeMatha ran all over them with their athletes. You put a healthy Hoban, LaSalle or Pick Central up against DeMatha and the game is much closer. I don’t want to hear the “Ignatius beat Hoban” arguments. Hoban was 1. not fully healthy and 2. there is a thing called matchups. Ignatius played their best game and Hoban played not close to their best game.
 

ELMIKE2K2

Member
I was at the St. John Bosco vs St. X game. SJB won that game because they had better skill kids out wide and that was it. I told a friend before the game that the SJB quarterback would house 1 because he's the fastest player on the field and on the 3rd play of the game that's what he did. They threw 2 slants that went about 160 yards combined. That was their offense the whole game. St. X was able to get in side the redzone on 4 different occasions in the first half and came up empty because of great plays by their db's to force fumbles and a goal line stand. Physically those teams were equal but St. X didn't have the athletes out wide to hurt SJB. If SJB would have matched up with Colerain it would have been a very low scoring game because SJB wouldn't have been able to out athlete Colerain which is all they did to St. X.

As far as the Trinity league is concerned. Two teams doesn't make a whole league great. Mater Dei and SJB are the only Trinity League squads playing OOS schedule and there is a reason for that. The other squads would get humiliated. De Lasalle hasn't beat a relevant OOS opponent in quite some time. Corono Centennial wouldn't stop anyone that is decent from scoring. Their whole persona is to outscore you. They refuse to punt. Who have Servite, Mission Viejo and J Serra beaten ever that make them some power? I'll wait for your answer. Again I follow high school football nationally.
If you were at the St John Bosco vs St X game then you would also know that St John Bosco played without then TOSU verbal commit Wyatt Davis and that it was their first game of that year and playing across country without playing any scrimmage games that year which would probably be the reason for the unpolished offense. The Trinity league is widely regarded as one of the top two or three leagues in the country every year. I didn't say that the other teams from the Trinity league where national powers just that they are good enough to play with anyone.
 

fish82

Well-known member
Whoa, actually if you put the top 20 Ohio teams against the top 20 California teams Ohio would probably be favored in and win maybe five games depending on the match ups and would get blown out just like the other top teams from around the country against the top teams from the Trinity League. You think Ohio private schools are stack, we have nothing on the privates from California. Who do you have from Ohio playing against the likes of Mater Dei, St John Bosco, Servite Academy, and J Serra, or maybe against top public schools like Cornona Centennial, Mission Viejo, the rest of the Trinity League as well as the privates from within LA? The GCL schools alone with Colerain, Pickerington Central, and Mentor would only be favored in games not including Mater Dei, St John Bosco, and De Lasalle in which any one of them would get blown out such as was the case of St Xavier getting taken out back in 2016 by St John Bosco at Nippert 34 to 0. California isn't by any means the weakest of the power football states which was demonstated this past years in the beating inflicted by both Mater Dei and St John Bosco on top schools (mostly IMG and other privates) from around the country the past couple of years. Bishop Gorman which of course is out of Las Vegas, had a over 30 game win streak win Tate Martel was playing there was basically made up of players from southern california.
Other than MD and Bosco, the Trinity league is nothing special...Servite and Serra in particular.

Ohio would obviously get flamed at the top, but would win no less than 10 vs California in a 20v20 matchup. Other than the 2 super teams, CA is not one of the stronger power states.
 

algernonsidney

Active member
Martinsburg in WV has basically become a prep school, they would probably beat Pick Central pretty easily
Are you kidding? I am from the Northern Panhandle of West Virginia, so I watch football in both states. Martinsburg has won eight state titles in ten years. I think they would have a tough time beating the best in the MAC. Someone like LaSalle, Pickerington Central, or Mentor would crush them.
 

nptb

Member
If you were at the St John Bosco vs St X game then you would also know that St John Bosco played without then TOSU verbal commit Wyatt Davis and that it was their first game of that year and playing across country without playing any scrimmage games that year which would probably be the reason for the unpolished offense. The Trinity league is widely regarded as one of the top two or three leagues in the country every year. I didn't say that the other teams from the Trinity league where national powers just that they are good enough to play with anyone.
Bosco had everyone play in that game including the Davis. St. X was the team that didn't have their star offensive lineman (Matt Brockhorst) play on top of Clifford not being healthy.

As far as the Trinity league goes, the other teams in that league can't play with anyone. Nothing suggest that they can.
 

UncleCucci

New member
Colerain is going to be down again real soon. They wont be the same since Bolden is gone. I haven't seen a good Colerain fullback since Jackson Sorn who graduated in 2013. It's sad those kids can't win the big game.
 

Skulls & Stars

New member
I know, and understand, but it is what it is though. Forida has great athletes, but the best teams, and athletes are Texas, all around wise
Moeller has played the top teams around the country, including teams from Texas. Moeller had had their fair share of success. No I'm not just talking about the Faust teams.
 

Walt

Active member
I seen some Martinsburg Wv football,they would not be an easy game for anyone in Ohio.
Pick Central is always looking for games and has been willing to travel. I’d love to see Pick Central vs Martinsburg... hold it as a neutral site like Wheeling or Morgantown.
 

Summa

Well-known member
The title of the thread is true and I don't really think it is debatable anymore. Ohio is still the top state for talent north of the Mason-Dixon line but looking at Ohio State's two deep, the large majority of players are not from Ohio anymore. The vast majority of football talent is in the South and that is not going to change.

Urban Meyer discussed this in the pregame before the Fiesta Bowl (a game Ohio State should have won by 14 points). Ohio State can no longer be a national championship contender with the majority of its starters being from Ohio. Meyer made the accurate point about what Michigan and Penn State need to do to catch up to Ohio State. They need to expand their recruiting footprint and develop relationships with high school coaches in the South. They need to not just get three star players from Georgia, Texas and Florida but steal top recruits from the SEC, Clemson and Texas. As Meyer put it, there is still quality in the North (Ohio, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New Jersey), but there is no longer quantity. The quantity is in SEC country.
 
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HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
The fact that kids can specialize in football a lot easier in the south (warm weather = spring football) equates to better talent. In Ohio, most kids are cramped into a high school gym or a decent sized athletic facility that makes it hard to develop athleticism and skill. Imagine having an entire extra season to practice football? That is what these southern schools get.
 

Summa

Well-known member
The fact that kids can specialize in football a lot easier in the south (warm weather = spring football) equates to better talent. In Ohio, most kids are cramped into a high school gym or a decent sized athletic facility that makes it hard to develop athleticism and skill. Imagine having an entire extra season to practice football? That is what these southern schools get.
I don't really think that has much to do with it. I think the below has much more to do with it, coupled with fewer and fewer white kids being allowed to play football. Ohio and Pennsylvania don't have an overabundance of tough blue collar kids like they used to in the 1960s and 1970s.

5379
 

Cincysportsguy

New member
Colerain is going to be down again real soon. They wont be the same since Bolden is gone. I haven't seen a good Colerain fullback since Jackson Sorn who graduated in 2013. It's sad those kids can't win the big game.
There have been plenty good fullbacks since Jackson Sorn? Manalo Caldwell and Ivan Pace Jr. are probably better! Yes they are alot smaller but that doesn’t define how good they are as a football player in highschool. Pretty sure they had better stats as well
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I don't really think that has much to do with it. I think the below has much more to do with it, coupled with fewer and fewer white kids being allowed to play football. Ohio and Pennsylvania don't have an overabundance of tough blue collar kids like they used to in the 1960s and 1970s.

View attachment 5379
This is the truth. Someone will come by and call you a racist but it is a fact that on average the black male is more athletic than the white. There are very athletic white football players, such as Tanner Muse and the clemson linebackers, Christian McCaffery or since we’re talking Ohio Football most people are familiar with Andy Isabella. He might be the most athletic football player i’ve seen, let alone white football player. However, there’s a reason at the Olympics the majority of the runners are black. There is a reason the skill position population is probably at a 9:1 ratio of black to white. It is how it is. It’s not racist.
 

doverbuck

Active member
Connecticut does not start basketball until January, apparently they are all about football in Connecticut, who would suspect that? Maybe Ohio just doesn’t regard football like we use to.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
Connecticut does not start basketball until January, apparently they are all about football in Connecticut, who would suspect that? Maybe Ohio just doesn’t regard football like we use to.
Connecticut regular season ends on Thanksgiving and the playoffs end in middle of December. They've, just like a lot of other northeastern states, never gave up the Thanksgiving games. But they're the only ones to still mark it as the end of the high school season.
 
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