Northwest Ohio Realignment

RollingTrain

Well-known member
School administrator I spoke to earlier in the day a little closer to the situation told me not to get too overly excited. Lots of hurdles. Same narrative - some are more afraid of change than others.
 

dappling

Member
School administrator I spoke to earlier in the day a little closer to the situation told me not to get too overly excited. Lots of hurdles. Same narrative - some are more afraid of change than others.
I heard the same thing. I was also told that many school boards were going to not be in tune with this...Defiance and Perrysburg, etc.
 

dappling

Member
Disappointing that the Catholic schools won't be in. Central is a power in football. But other than that there is no clear dominant Catholic school in anything. SJJ has good basketball but is not absolutely dominant. St. Francis was winless a few years ago in football. AW and PBurg are dominant in girls soccer. Clay is the best girls soccer program in the TRAC. Very disappointing that all of the schools cannot get together. Also, why not include the Toledo City League? It's not a good look if all of the public schools in the area want to form a league but somehow want to avoid the inner city schools.
I would agree...the City League is not good in that Scott is small and Start and Bowsher are big. In today's climate of "equity," what would be an argument against including the City League Schools? Start and Bowsher could be in the top tier.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The city league is in a tough spot. Half of the league is D3/D4 in football, and in the grand scheme of things it is a very weak football conference...and for that matter, those schools are pretty weak in a ton of sports. Basketball is the only sport that some of the city league schools could consistently compete in and excel against TRAC and NLL competition. Outside of making scheduling easier, I don't think there are many competitive benefits to be had for anyone in such a merger.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I've been saying this on here for as many times as I can. As a Lima native and Senior High alum, the WBL will NEVER allow Lima Senior to compete for WBL titles / join the league. NEVER.

IF it were to happen, I will be going to church on Sunday AND Wednesday nights because the end is most definitely near.
I don’t want to be the guy to ask these questions but I will... is it a race issue? I grew up in WBL country, I would not be surprised if that was the reason.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
I don’t want to be the guy to ask these questions but I will... is it a race issue? I grew up in WBL country, I would not be surprised if that was the reason.
Lima Senior and Lima Bath should never be in the same league together. Senior doesn't fit size wise in the WBL. it's a move that wouldn't last more than 2 seasons.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Don't know if Liberty-Benton would be interested, but IMO the WBL would crawl to Findlay on broken glass for them before letting Lima Senior in.
 

smurfyeah19

Active member
Disappointing that the Catholic schools won't be in. Central is a power in football. But other than that there is no clear dominant Catholic school in anything. SJJ has good basketball but is not absolutely dominant. St. Francis was winless a few years ago in football. AW and PBurg are dominant in girls soccer. Clay is the best girls soccer program in the TRAC. Very disappointing that all of the schools cannot get together. Also, why not include the Toledo City League? It's not a good look if all of the public schools in the area want to form a league but somehow want to avoid the inner city schools.
Thank you! They aren’t St Ed’s or St Ignatius, which is why it works well. Honestly any change seems dumb, it’s a good mix at this time.

The only schools who need an escape are Maumee and Woodmore. They’re bottom of the barrel in most sports.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
I don’t want to be the guy to ask these questions but I will... is it a race issue? I grew up in WBL country, I would not be surprised if that was the reason.
Growing up we always assumed it was haha. That and Lima Senior was always the largest school in the area. Only D1 football south of Findlay for a good minute. I'd have to check enrollment records recently but Lima may be still the largest school in WBL territory besides Findlay.

Looking at boys basketball contests over the last recent years clearly some WBL schools have absolutely zero issue playing Lima. Now that does not mean obviously the entire league would be up for it.

Funny enough, sadly too, schools like OG and Van Wert would most likely dominate Lima in football these days. So I don't know that competition would be an issue in football.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Lima Senior and Lima Bath should never be in the same league together. Senior doesn't fit size wise in the WBL. it's a move that wouldn't last more than 2 seasons.
Funny enough in my grades 7-12 tenure in the Lima City Schools (middle school at South, high school at senior high) I can't recall for the life of me ever playing Bath in any sporting contest inside the city limits. Middle school football, basketball and baseball was always AT Bath. Even in high school when we would scrimmage Bath in football every August guess where the scrimmage was held? you guessed it, AT Bath.

Shawnee, Elida were always cool about coming into the city to play us in something. If we wanted to play Bath in anything, it had to be at their place.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
Growing up we always assumed it was haha. That and Lima Senior was always the largest school in the area. Only D1 football south of Findlay for a good minute. I'd have to check enrollment records recently but Lima may be still the largest school in WBL territory besides Findlay.

Looking at boys basketball contests over the last recent years clearly some WBL schools have absolutely zero issue playing Lima. Now that does not mean obviously the entire league would be up for it.

Funny enough, sadly too, schools like OG and Van Wert would most likely dominate Lima in football these days. So I don't know that competition would be an issue in football.
How do you define WBL territory? If its basically north to Defiance, east to Findlay, south to Celina/St. Marys, then yes. Lima is still WAY bigger than everyone except Findlay (429 boys, Wapak is at 314, and the only other school really in the territory that is D4 or bigger and not in the league is Napoleon).

If you extend it a bit south....Sidney is at 440.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
How do you define WBL territory? If its basically north to Defiance, east to Findlay, south to Celina/St. Marys, then yes. Lima is still WAY bigger than everyone except Findlay (429 boys, Wapak is at 314, and the only other school really in the territory that is D4 or bigger and not in the league is Napoleon).

If you extend it a bit south....Sidney is at 440.
anything west of Findlay, South of Findlay. Anything East of Lima to Kenton, anything south of Lima to Wapak and or Celina to the Southwest??? Not sure anyone would toss Sidney into the mix but if you want to, rock on then.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I
Growing up we always assumed it was haha. That and Lima Senior was always the largest school in the area. Only D1 football south of Findlay for a good minute. I'd have to check enrollment records recently but Lima may be still the largest school in WBL territory besides Findlay.

Looking at boys basketball contests over the last recent years clearly some WBL schools have absolutely zero issue playing Lima. Now that does not mean obviously the entire league would be up for it.

Funny enough, sadly too, schools like OG and Van Wert would most likely dominate Lima in football these days. So I don't know that competition would be an issue in football.
I might have said this in this thread or a different one, but I think it would be in Senior High’s best interest to go independent. Basketball runs the school. No other sport is competitive in any form except occasionally track and football. Coach Simpson would love to be playing SVSM or Trotwood Madison in the middle of the season instead of Fremont Ross.

I just feel like that would create a conflict in football. Every team in the area has their set week 1 and 2 open for non conference and then play conference games the rest of the way. Lima Senior would have to drive all over the state weeks 3-10 just to get beat 50-0.

I can’t stand it man. Lima is filled with so many athletes and so much talent. Why is the football team so bad? They haven’t been good since 2015 when they were absolutely loaded, yet still got destroyed by La Salle in the second round. I hope Townsend can turn the program around but I don’t see it happening.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
anything west of Findlay, South of Findlay. Anything East of Lima to Kenton, anything south of Lima to Wapak and or Celina to the Southwest??? Not sure anyone would toss Sidney into the mix but if you want to, rock on then.
I don't disagree, Sidney is a little out. Was just curious considering how far flung the league is now.
 

bcw

Active member
I agree that Lima Senior probably has to go independent. It's just an outlier in regards to size and geography. It won't be easy, but it can be done. Just a lot more work for the AD and some unfortunate road trips from time to time. I just can't see a better solution if the Toledo schools move on.

There is almost zero chance the CBC would be interested in Kenton. I'm not sure how else to say it.

There is always a simmering threat of the Mad River CBC schools to try to get together with some OHC schools. The geography and size are too similar for it to ever totally go away.

I think Alder/London/N Union are happier than some people think. Sure, Alder is the top dog, but they've had plenty of competition in football and more on the horizon. I don't see an easy transition for any of those schools in the near future. All have battled league issues for years and can't see them being the impetus for change.

Bellefontaine is always aware that league changes could lead to it being left in the cold. It has a little bit of the same issues as Lima Senior. It's bigger than most of it's neighbors and is in a pretty remote location. The last time the sand began to shift, Bellefontaine reached out to the WBL and there was at least some interest. Bellefontaine also reached out to the MVL schools (then the GWOC). There was not much interest to expand that far north at the time. Bellefontaine is admittedly struggling right now athletically, but it will be short lived. They will be better and the community has always been eager to compete with good competition.

My guess is that the NW will drastically change as rumored. Defiance will leave the WBL. The WBL will then have to decide whether they want Lima Senior or not. I don't have enough knowledge to know how the power players view them...........The CBC stays pat for at least 5 more years. Hard to look much further than that.
 

bcw

Active member
Another thought....

If the Defiance leaves the WBL and the league decides against adding Lima Sr, both would have scheduling challenges. The better teams in the WBL could add Senior to their mid season bye week on a case to case basis. Senior could almost be the Notre Dame of the ACC in football. In the league where applicable but not all the way in.
 

NLLBEST

Member
I do also know that maumee MUCH prefers being in the NBC. They are holding out hoping that woodmore’s departure would open a spot for them.
They’ll be holding out for a long time if that’s what they’re waiting on. I think about half of the NBC regrets letting Rossford in right now.
 

jonmoxon

Active member
I agree that Lima Senior probably has to go independent. It's just an outlier in regards to size and geography. It won't be easy, but it can be done. Just a lot more work for the AD and some unfortunate road trips from time to time. I just can't see a better solution if the Toledo schools move on.

There is almost zero chance the CBC would be interested in Kenton. I'm not sure how else to say it.

There is always a simmering threat of the Mad River CBC schools to try to get together with some OHC schools. The geography and size are too similar for it to ever totally go away.

I think Alder/London/N Union are happier than some people think. Sure, Alder is the top dog, but they've had plenty of competition in football and more on the horizon. I don't see an easy transition for any of those schools in the near future. All have battled league issues for years and can't see them being the impetus for change.

Bellefontaine is always aware that league changes could lead to it being left in the cold. It has a little bit of the same issues as Lima Senior. It's bigger than most of it's neighbors and is in a pretty remote location. The last time the sand began to shift, Bellefontaine reached out to the WBL and there was at least some interest. Bellefontaine also reached out to the MVL schools (then the GWOC). There was not much interest to expand that far north at the time. Bellefontaine is admittedly struggling right now athletically, but it will be short lived. They will be better and the community has always been eager to compete with good competition.

My guess is that the NW will drastically change as rumored. Defiance will leave the WBL. The WBL will then have to decide whether they want Lima Senior or not. I don't have enough knowledge to know how the power players view them...........The CBC stays pat for at least 5 more years. Hard to look much further than that.
Lima Senior will never be in the WBL.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
Lima is quite a bit bigger than the WBL schools and 1.3x bigger than the smallest (Bath). Here is enrollment for the bigger schools in NW and the schools being discussed. As you can see Liberty Benton is a better fit enrollment wise than Lima. With them growing in a few years maybe near middle of pack in WBL.

1610633499863.png
 
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dappling

Member
Thank you! They aren’t St Ed’s or St Ignatius, which is why it works well. Honestly any change seems dumb, it’s a good mix at this time.

The only schools who need an escape are Maumee and Woodmore. They’re bottom of the barrel in most sports.
Maumee to the nbc and woodmore to the BVC. Problem solved.
 

Spartan8

New member
Another Lima Senior alum here. LSH isn't a good fit culturally with WBL as far as parent support and engagement. Also, can't imagine schools such as Bath or Van Wert want the headache of the type of crowd Lima Senior brings in for basketball.

Wouldn't call it a race thing at this point, just cultural overall.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I agree that Lima Senior probably has to go independent. It's just an outlier in regards to size and geography. It won't be easy, but it can be done. Just a lot more work for the AD and some unfortunate road trips from time to time. I just can't see a better solution if the Toledo schools move on.

There is almost zero chance the CBC would be interested in Kenton. I'm not sure how else to say it.

There is always a simmering threat of the Mad River CBC schools to try to get together with some OHC schools. The geography and size are too similar for it to ever totally go away.

I think Alder/London/N Union are happier than some people think. Sure, Alder is the top dog, but they've had plenty of competition in football and more on the horizon. I don't see an easy transition for any of those schools in the near future. All have battled league issues for years and can't see them being the impetus for change.

Bellefontaine is always aware that league changes could lead to it being left in the cold. It has a little bit of the same issues as Lima Senior. It's bigger than most of it's neighbors and is in a pretty remote location. The last time the sand began to shift, Bellefontaine reached out to the WBL and there was at least some interest. Bellefontaine also reached out to the MVL schools (then the GWOC). There was not much interest to expand that far north at the time. Bellefontaine is admittedly struggling right now athletically, but it will be short lived. They will be better and the community has always been eager to compete with good competition.

My guess is that the NW will drastically change as rumored. Defiance will leave the WBL. The WBL will then have to decide whether they want Lima Senior or not. I don't have enough knowledge to know how the power players view them...........The CBC stays pat for at least 5 more years. Hard to look much further than that.
Not as familiar with North Union, but the league issues that the schools in Madison county have are largely self-inflicted. All four (London, JA, WJ, MP) have a long history of jumping ship every 7-12 years (and in a few instances within 5 years) because they can't decide where they belong geographically and culturally. With the exception of Alder in recent years starting to show signs of being a trendy (and potentially growing down the road) exurb, it all has to do with wanting to belong in "metro Columbus" and enjoying accompanying media coverage. They constantly cycle between playing with schools to the west or the south that they fit better with culturally and that may be longer but easier drives, and then screw it up by getting in bed with schools like Grandview and Bexley that they have nothing in common with culturally or the schools on the other side of Columbus (i.e. Licking county) that are impossible to get to at scheduled weekday start times due to rush hour traffic.

The CBC and the OHC are the best fits for those schools, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're all gone within 5-7 years because it's what they do.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
I


I might have said this in this thread or a different one, but I think it would be in Senior High’s best interest to go independent. Basketball runs the school. No other sport is competitive in any form except occasionally track and football. Coach Simpson would love to be playing SVSM or Trotwood Madison in the middle of the season instead of Fremont Ross.

I just feel like that would create a conflict in football. Every team in the area has their set week 1 and 2 open for non conference and then play conference games the rest of the way. Lima Senior would have to drive all over the state weeks 3-10 just to get beat 50-0.

I can’t stand it man. Lima is filled with so many athletes and so much talent. Why is the football team so bad? They haven’t been good since 2015 when they were absolutely loaded, yet still got destroyed by La Salle in the second round. I hope Townsend can turn the program around but I don’t see it happening.
Senior High only needs a league for Football. Everything else can go independent and would probably be better served by going independent. Lima Senior in most sports in the TRAC is finishing in 6th, 7th or 8th place. I mean it is what it is. The TRAC does give Lima a home and some scheduling consistency but Lima Senior Girls Soccer versus Toledo St. Ursula isn't helping either program.
 

*67

Active member
Senior High only needs a league for Football. Everything else can go independent and would probably be better served by going independent.
But for football, Lima Senior might have 4 games in place automatically if this all pans out. The likelihood that they end up scheduling LCC every year in football goes up if they're both independent and need to fill games. If Toledo St. John's, Toledo Central Catholic, and Toledo St. Francis are all independent, I'd say it's likely those teams stay on the schedule during "inconvenient" weeks. So, there's a decent chance Lima Senior is able to find games in weeks 1-3, then play those 4 teams throughout the rest of their schedule...that's 7 weeks of games. So you've gotta find 3 games through 7 weeks? Not awful. Not ideal, but not awful either.
 
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green_genes

New member
They’ll be holding out for a long time if that’s what they’re waiting on. I think about half of the NBC regrets letting Rossford in right now.
Rossford will dominate boys' basketball for the next couple of years. After that, the cupboard is pretty bare. They're middle of the pack in the rest of the sports. Facilities are great. Not sure why the rest of the league has such a hang-up about two classes. The other schools have all had similar runs in football over the years.
 
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