Mark Cuban Steps In It

cjb56 said:
Ohhhh, okay...so if you one day hope to change your racial stereotyping attitudes and behaviors, that you admit you still hold, you are free from adhering to the pronouncements of the NBA as intolerant of any prejudices against others based on race, gender, sexuality, etc? The crap's already up to your eyes. Any higher and Recently will have to use his clean-shaven body to dive into the pile sleek and fast enough to keep you from getting buried.
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Yeah, he was obviously speaking out against that stereotyping, while honestly admitting he is even guilty of it at times. The context and intent of his comments certainly reinforce that he wasn't making a racist rant similar to what the nba condemned. You view that as analogous to what Sterling said?
 
eastside_purple said:
Again, Cuban was clumsily making a point that people judge others unfairly because of appearance.
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He publicly admitted to racist attitudes. He went so far as to publicly admit that he would go so far as to act on his racist attitudes.

And since you will probably miss the important part of what I am pointing out, here is a hint - Focus on the word "PUBLICLY".

eastside_purple said:
Sterling was actively making racist commentary.
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Sterling is a racist - there is no doubt about that. But what did Sterling actually do? His comments were made privately and he never intended that they be made public. When he made those statements, he had no idea that anyone other than the person he was speaking directly to would ever hear those comments, so he clearly did not set out to embarrass the NBA. What league rule did Sterling violate by making those private statements?

And again, let me point out the operative word for you, since you will likely try to gloss over it once again - focus on the word "PRIVATE".

eastside_purple said:
Hysterical the mindless doorknobs calling the nba hypocritical are too disingenuous to acknowledge that.
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I believe the NBA is wrong to try to fine Sterling for comments that were made in a private setting and leaked to the public presumptively against Sterling's wishes. I do not think they should punish Cuban for his comments, as I don't think they are that bad. But if the NBA is going to go after one and not the other, then the obvious choice would be the comments that were made for public consumption.
 
eastside_purple said:
Yeah, he was obviously speaking out against that stereotyping, while honestly admitting he is even guilty of it at times. You view that as analogous to what Sterling said?
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No, I don't feel it rises to Sterling's level. I'm also not Adam Silver accepting accolades for "laying down the law" and declaring the NBA has zero tolerance for any kind of prejudice...and he highlighted behavior toward blacks.
 
cjb56 said:
No, I don't feel it rises to Sterling's level. I'm also not Adam Silver accepting accolades for "laying down the law" and declaring the NBA has zero tolerance for any kind of prejudice...and he highlighted behavior toward blacks.
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He was making a bigger point against that type of behavior.
 
cjb56 said:
Yeah, that he stereotypes...including being fearful of encountering a black male wearing a hoodie walking on the same side of a public street.
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That pretty disingenuous. Really no reason to continue as you want to pretend Cuban only said one sentence.
 
eastside_purple said:
He was making a bigger point against that type of behavior.
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I understand the point he was making, but does that absolve him from his own attitudes...which are counter to the stated spirit of the business alliance to which he belongs? At least slap a fat fine on the guy and make him do some sort of PC sensitivity training to overcome his fears. Otherwise, don't jump up and down screaming that your league has no room for any sort of prejudice.
 
cjb56 said:
I understand the point he was making, but does that absolve him from his own attitudes...which are counter to the stated spirit of the business alliance to which he belongs? At least slap a fat fine on the guy and make him do some sort of PC sensitivity training to overcome his fears. Otherwise, don't jump up and down screaming that your league has no room for any sort of prejudice.
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The nba may still discipline Cuban, but to ignore his greater point is silly.
 
eastside_purple said:
That pretty disingenuous. Really no reason to continue as you want to pretend Cuban only said one sentence.
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He continued and made other stereotypes, all of which I assume fall into the NBA's no prejudice zone. The remark about the hoodied black kid sticks out like a sore thumb for many reasons...especially the recent Trayvon Martin incident and Silver highlighting the league is predominantly black.
 
eastside_purple said:
The nba may still discipline Cuban, but to ignore his greater point is silly.
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His greater point is fine. I'm glad he speaks his mind, just as I'm glad you speak your mind. He belongs to an association, however, that very recently warned about prejudice of any sort. My stance is that Cuban should pay some price, based on the rules of his association.
 
eastside_purple said:
Then you are either being disingenuous or ignorant in your conclusion. No surprise.
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Right back at you. You continue to ignore the forum in which the statements were made, and if you are going to impose punishments (such as a fine or a lifetime ban) for the public embarrassment caused by such statements, then forum is not only relevant, it is half of the entire case. Without it, you have zero basis for imposing any such punishment.

Now go ahead and make some other post ignoring the crux of what I am saying. That will truly be no surprise, as it is your standard M.O.
 
Could sterling use the "no action in Cubans" remarks to his benefit in court when he fights this. Claiming discrimination against him
 
Jhubbs77 said:
Cuban's comments aren't even the front page of ESPN anymore. Not much of a public embarrassment
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Yeah, I don't think ESPN wants it on the front page. They do have a deal with the NBA. They couldn't avoid the Sterling thing, but they...and the NBA...are probably hoping this one just fades away, so they can bask in the glow of forcing Sterling to sell the Clippers.
 
cjb56 said:
Like I said, I'm cool with everything he said. It's his honest thoughts and I hate the PC thought police, but if in his heart he holds those views, should the NBA that Adam Silver described in the Sterling presser be okay with Cuban's comments?
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This whole business of being the racist police is a messy one. I too commend Cuban for being honest. Let's all be honest, who doesn't become more vigilant when they cross paths with a rough looking stereotypical black street dude? That's not racist, that's just part of being aware, careful of potential threats. I, just like Cuban, have a similar reaction when I see some young tatted up white dude, dressed like your typical biker dude, approaching. I'm just a little more vigilant, a little more careful, it just makes sense.

Sterling sounds like he has some racist based fears as well. Personally, I think Sterling was a scumbag, and don't feel sorry for him a bit. His whole lifestyle, with his wife and girlfriend, turns my stomach. But are his fears really any different from Cuban's? Not really...

I'm fairly convinced that the way in which the media massages these stories, impacts how people react to them. We (the masses) have sort of a gang-up mentality on these issues, wanting to appear to be on the right side of the issues, thus proving to others that we hold no negative views that may possibly be interpreted in a racial way. So we listen to the media, we draw conclusions from their conclusions, and like a massive wage, the gang pile starts. People want to feel that they're not like these other bad people...

In Cuban's case, the whole issue has been downplayed. Partly because of his honesty about his racial fears, in hypothetical situations, but also because of the way the media shaped story.

All in all though, if the NBA were really serious about stamping out ANYTHING remotely "racist' (as they claim), Cuban's comments would clearly qualify and they would be forced to take action. But just like the masses, the NBA waits for the media reaction, forms it's opinion from the way it plays out, and then decides whether it was 'wrong' enough to warrant action.
 
the_big_toe said:
He publicly admitted to racist attitudes. He went so far as to publicly admit that he would go so far as to act on his racist attitudes.

And since you will probably miss the important part of what I am pointing out, here is a hint - Focus on the word "PUBLICLY".
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I think there's room for being "right" all around here. I wouldn't have focused on the word "publicly" so much as the word "admit." This is what gave Cuban the pass I think.

We're on the same page regards words and feelings versus actions but they are both still part of a marketing entity. Sterling's only hope after his private comments were made public was to either "admit" or "prove innocent" of actions. He did neither. His isn't a court of law where he has to be proven guilty. His is the court of public opinion where he has to prove innocent. Barring ability to do that, people will forgive someone that unequivocally admits. He couldn't do that either.

Cuban declared himself guilty. He admitted and recognized the error of his ways. Plus, he's valuable to the NBA and we've ALL agreed on the hypocrisy there.
 
eastisbest said:
I think there's room for being "right" all around here. I wouldn't have focused on the word "publicly" so much as the word "admit." This is what gave Cuban the pass I think.
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With regards to public opinion, I think you are correct. With regards to whether Cuban broke a league rule, I still maintain that one of the first things the league should look at is whether the statement was made publicly. Cuban's statement clears that hurdle. Now I think you make the argument (and I understand your argument and agree with it) that the contents of Cuban's statement were not embarrassing, or at least not embarrassing enough to constitute a violation of the league rule, but that is a different argument than whether the statement was made publicly or privately.

eastisbest said:
We're on the same page regards words and feelings versus actions but they are both still part of a marketing entity. Sterling's only hope after his private comments were made public was to either "admit" or "prove innocent" of actions. He did neither. His isn't a court of law where he has to be proven guilty. His is the court of public opinion where he has to prove innocent. Barring ability to do that, people will forgive someone that unequivocally admits. He couldn't do that either.
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With regards to the court of public opinion, I agree. However, when it comes down to whether Sterling broke a league rule relating to publicly embarrassing the league with his statements, that really does become a legal issue - and we know that Sterling is a litigious person, so I think this will be hashed out in the courts, and I would expect Sterling to prevail, based on the fact that his statements were never intended for public consumption.

eastisbest said:
Cuban declared himself guilty. He admitted and recognized the error of his ways. Plus, he's valuable to the NBA and we've ALL agreed on the hypocrisy there.
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Agreed.
 
Trevor Gta said:
I thought we determined it was racist to be weary of a black kid in a hoodie last year during the Zimmerman trial?
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Oh, that idea was driven home with a nine pound hammer again and again. But as somebody already pointed out... the players LIKE Cuban, so he gets a pass. Selective outrage as usual.

What Cuban said is every bit as "racists" as Sterling. If you want to call it that. But if you go of crime stats, race definitely plays into who you would suspect and why. But hey, let's not let those pesky facts get in the way. Just come back with some BS as to why it's whitey's fault that blacks commit much more crime statistically.

You guys are astounding with you blatant selective racial rage. You go so far as to say what slurs whites are allowed to be offended by. Is there a white term for an Uncle Tom?
 
Slide-by said:
You guys are astounding with you blatant selective racial rage. You go so far as to say what slurs whites are allowed to be offended by. Is there a white term for an Uncle Tom?
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Why should I get incensed by a slur because you or anyone wants me to be, particularly when I get MUCH more mileage out of being amused by it? I'm not here to protect or swear loyalty, let alone fealty to any particular race.
 
eastisbest said:
Why should I get incensed by a slur because you or anyone wants me to be, particularly when I get MUCH more mileage out of being amused by it? I'm not here to protect or swear loyalty, let alone fealty to any particular race.
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Why then should you or anyone get incensed about a slur that doesn't even involve you? And while you're not here to swear loyalty to any particular race, there are plenty of people who are VERY public about swearing their loyalty to a particular race. A Supreme Court judge was just called an Uncle Tom REPEATEDLY in public because he apparently doesn't "look out for" other blacks. You're blind to the true state of race relations today. If you want to call it relations. It's more of a "what's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine" situation developing.
 
the_big_toe said:
Right back at you. You continue to ignore the forum in which the statements were made, and if you are going to impose punishments (such as a fine or a lifetime ban) for the public embarrassment caused by such statements, then forum is not only relevant, it is half of the entire case. Without it, you have zero basis for imposing any such punishment.

Now go ahead and make some other post ignoring the crux of what I am saying. That will truly be no surprise, as it is your standard M.O.
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Given the context of Cuban's statements, they aren't really embarrassing to the league.
 
eastside_purple said:
Their standard was to stand against racist vitriol, not to punish owners who point out the personal biases people have that they need to confront and overcome.
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So, he's a racist but it's OK? He discriminates against "white bald guys with tattoos" and it's OK? I thought all racists and bigots were ignorant fools and "horrible human beings"? I guess if Cuban said if saw a gay man he would think he had AIDS that would be OK? He CLEARLY admits to stereotyping people.... the same as Sterling. In fact, I think he's laying the ground work to try to help Sterling.
 
cjb56 said:
Ohhhh, okay...so if you one day hope to change your racial stereotyping attitudes and behaviors, that you admit you still hold, you are free from adhering to the pronouncements of the NBA as intolerant of any prejudices against others based on race, gender, sexuality, etc? The crap's already up to your eyes. Any higher and Recently will have to use his clean-shaven body to dive into the pile sleek and fast enough to keep you from getting buried.
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LOL!
 
Slide-by said:
So, he's a racist but it's OK? He discriminates against "white bald guys with tattoos" and it's OK? I thought all racists and bigots were ignorant fools and "horrible human beings"? I guess if Cuban said if saw a gay man he would think he had AIDS that would be OK? He CLEARLY admits to stereotyping people.... the same as Sterling. In fact, I think he's laying the ground work to try to help Sterling.
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Those were just examples in his larger point on why such attitudes should be changed. It's not okay, but given the point he was making, it's reasonable he would use them to illustrate his point.
 
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