Jake Furr Open Letter

14Red said:
Way back when, teachers were not paid well, but the time off was considered compensation and let's face it, public education is paid for by the taxpayers, so you have limited means. Most extracurriculars occur after school, so it just made sense to hire teachers to coach and it was supplemental income for them. Some coaches had little to no experience in the sports they coached, they just figured it out.

Now I will say the demand on "off season" stuff has exploded over the last 30 years and coaches are not paid anywhere near enough for the time allotted.
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Teachers still aren't paid well. The average starting salary is $30k-$35k.
 
What an excellent article and he made many great points. How many days a week do you get to see your son/daughter play? If it's football, you get to see him out there for 2 hours on a Friday night when the coaches get to see him 6 days a week (school, lifting, practice, film). You only know what you think the talent level of your child is, no clue that they were late to something or that they don't even any effort Mon-Thur. All these parents are doing is making their children victims, instead teach them how to deal with adversity because they'll have plenty of that in their lives as they grow up.
 
I will play devils advocate here…It is true there a way too many parents barking at everything…coaches…AND officials which will run out of before coaches imho…What you cannot say (never deal in absolutes) is that every coach in every sport throughout the state is a great coach, mentor and motivator. You can’t say that about any profession. Having been involved in sports for over 50 years at every level I can say I had some great coaches (two in their respective halls of fame)…and some some average and below average ones as well…in business I have had incredible managers and leaders and some terrible ones to boot. I have watched coaches dole out playing time to players with talent who also work hard but also to kids with talent but no work ethic and bad attitudes….I would say 90-95. % of the time parents need to back off…but..and there always is a but…there are times when parents need to ask some questions…I have witnessed some pretty bizarre things through the years. Nobody, Parents, Coaches or Administration are always right…or wrong. I think we need to address the abuse of officials first and foremost.
 
14Red said:
Coach's contracts are extra curricular, and annual by nature. This is good because the biggest misinformation out there is that high school coaches get fired. No they don't. Their supplemental contracts must be renewed annually. If a school decides to go a different direction, they just don't renew the coach. Much cleaner and legal that way. Now a coach CAN get fired during their contract for certain big items, but for the most part it's a simple procedure. And it may or may not have anything to do with coaching. A coach could be a horse's butt and treat the kids horribly and win, and you get and administration and board who is more about participation and kids growing up differently, that coach may not be a great fit. If it's win at all costs - which it many times is - then they coach stays and kids can be mistreated.

The great thing is if you want to coach, you can coach. Anywhere, anytime, there are coaching jobs in your area. As long as you pass the background check, you would likely have a shot at being hired, and if there is no other candidates, you may get it by default.
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Technically you are correct ! BUT, let’s be honest. In most cases non renewal is ,sorta of, a kind way of saying your fired.
 
rdj173123 said:
Clown statement here.

Also take into account the amount of time teachers put in outside of their contracted hours during the school year. It will surpass the hours of a “regular” job even without June, July, and half of August.
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If you think that teachers are the only salaried employees who take some work home you need to get out a little more.
 
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rdj173123 said:
Clown statement here.

Also take into account the amount of time teachers put in outside of their contracted hours during the school year. It will surpass the hours of a “regular” job even without June, July, and half of August.
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I disagree. People with regular jobs also put in additional hours.
 
rdj173123 said:
I'm not disagreeing with that. I've worked in both the corporate world and public education. Not every teacher puts in additional hours, just like not every employee in the corporate world puts in additional hours. But for you to differentiate a teaching position as not a "regular" job is exactly why so many high quality teachers and coaches are leaving the field.
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Let me know of another salary position held by such a large group where they work 8 hour days with no weekend requirements for approx. 1500 hours a year, while getting most of June, July & August off work?

I would interpret the phrase "regular job" in this discussion as one that is 40 hours a week for 12 months or 2080 hours a year.
 
rdj173123 said:
But for you to differentiate a teaching position as not a "regular" job is exactly why so many high quality teachers and coaches are leaving the field.
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Do you really think people have quit teaching because someone says they do not have a "regular job"?
 
CDRam84 said:
I will play devils advocate here…It is true there a way too many parents barking at everything…coaches…AND officials which will run out of before coaches imho…What you cannot say (never deal in absolutes) is that every coach in every sport throughout the state is a great coach, mentor and motivator. You can’t say that about any profession. Having been involved in sports for over 50 years at every level I can say I had some great coaches (two in their respective halls of fame)…and some some average and below average ones as well…in business I have had incredible managers and leaders and some terrible ones to boot. I have watched coaches dole out playing time to players with talent who also work hard but also to kids with talent but no work ethic and bad attitudes….I would say 90-95. % of the time parents need to back off…but..and there always is a but…there are times when parents need to ask some questions…I have witnessed some pretty bizarre things through the years. Nobody, Parents, Coaches or Administration are always right…or wrong. I think we need to address the abuse of officials first and foremost.
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Everyone should do a couple of things, either volunteer to officiate/ umpire local youth basketball, baseball, soccer games or coach them. There is no logjam of people willing to do this. Actually, one of the issues with officiating is that we've run so many good people out of the profession there are many officials who either have not played the sports they officiate or only know the basic rules and are learning on the job.
One issue I see is we expect 100% from officials with no errors. Officials make mistakes. Especially in fast moving games with subjective calls. I know one catchphrase today is not necessarily the specifical foul or violation, but if a player is "gaining an advantage". Most sports are designed where one single call does not win or lose games. That's why basketball players have 5 fouls. Batters have 3 strikes.

Finally, I think parents and fans need to have "realistic" expectations of their kids and the teams they play on. This isn't the movies where the bad news bears or the mighty ducks are horrible and transform over a few months to a championship team. That NEVER happens. If your kid's team loses alot in youth and jr. high, pretty likely they are going to lose in high school, no matter who the coach is. If kids complain about the coach, do a deeper dive and see if the kids are doing anything to make themselves better? My experience is that bad teams generally stay bad because they don't put much extra time into that sport during the off season. In today's world, if you only play basketball from November to March, and don't pick up the ball again until the following November, you're likely to get the same results.
 
CDRam84 said:
I will play devils advocate here…It is true there a way too many parents barking at everything…coaches…AND officials which will run out of before coaches imho…What you cannot say (never deal in absolutes) is that every coach in every sport throughout the state is a great coach, mentor and motivator. You can’t say that about any profession. Having been involved in sports for over 50 years at every level I can say I had some great coaches (two in their respective halls of fame)…and some some average and below average ones as well…in business I have had incredible managers and leaders and some terrible ones to boot. I have watched coaches dole out playing time to players with talent who also work hard but also to kids with talent but no work ethic and bad attitudes….I would say 90-95. % of the time parents need to back off…but..and there always is a but…there are times when parents need to ask some questions…I have witnessed some pretty bizarre things through the years. Nobody, Parents, Coaches or Administration are always right…or wrong. I think we need to address the abuse of officials first and foremost.
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That coach will probably not last long.
 
spirit454 said:
Do you really think people have quit teaching because someone says they do not have a "regular job"?
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I hope not...lol...Yes, there is a national average salary figure but applying for PE job at a small D4 school in the middle of the no where is a little different than applying for a PE job at Jackson HS. The education system has changed so much....not for the good either. I believe a lot of the high quality teachers and coaches are getting out has nothing to do about pay...more about societal changes and the way the educational system has changed. Remember the days when your kids would bring home a worksheet of problems and the worksheet was hand written by the teachers (and the worksheet probably met the needs of all the kids in the class)...those days are long gone...now...it's a worksheet printed off an approved internet resource that supposedly is going to prepare them for their next state proficiency test!!!
14Red said:
Everyone should do a couple of things, either volunteer to officiate/ umpire local youth basketball, baseball, soccer games or coach them. There is no logjam of people willing to do this. Actually, one of the issues with officiating is that we've run so many good people out of the profession there are many officials who either have not played the sports they officiate or only know the basic rules and are learning on the job.
One issue I see is we expect 100% from officials with no errors. Officials make mistakes. Especially in fast moving games with subjective calls. I know one catchphrase today is not necessarily the specifical foul or violation, but if a player is "gaining an advantage". Most sports are designed where one single call does not win or lose games. That's why basketball players have 5 fouls. Batters have 3 strikes.

Finally, I think parents and fans need to have "realistic" expectations of their kids and the teams they play on. This isn't the movies where the bad news bears or the mighty ducks are horrible and transform over a few months to a championship team. That NEVER happens. If your kid's team loses alot in youth and jr. high, pretty likely they are going to lose in high school, no matter who the coach is. If kids complain about the coach, do a deeper dive and see if the kids are doing anything to make themselves better? My experience is that bad teams generally stay bad because they don't put much extra time into that sport during the off season. In today's world, if you only play basketball from November to March, and don't pick up the ball again until the following November, you're likely to get the same results.
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I agree with your outlook on officiating. I like officials that focus on players and coaches during the game. They tune out the audience unless it is an emergency. Also, I like officials who will admit a mistake during a game. Like..."coach your right...sorry...I missed that one".

I think if a coach steps in the door and he/she inherited a team that has lost a lot and they have bad players it will be difficult to turn it around quickly and win. To turn it around faster the coach has to know how to push the right buttons of the best players they have (throw age out the door when evaluating). Can they get them to buy into more work despite the past losing. And is the coach component enough to develop them both mentally and skillfully. Some can do it, some think they can do it, and some can't do it. Tough hurdle and truly tests the desire of the coach.
 
realball4468 said:
I hope not...lol...Yes, there is a national average salary figure but applying for PE job at a small D4 school in the middle of the no where is a little different than applying for a PE job at Jackson HS. The education system has changed so much....not for the good either. I believe a lot of the high quality teachers and coaches are getting out has nothing to do about pay...more about societal changes and the way the educational system has changed. Remember the days when your kids would bring home a worksheet of problems and the worksheet was hand written by the teachers (and the worksheet probably met the needs of all the kids in the class)...those days are long gone...now...it's a worksheet printed off an approved internet resource that supposedly is going to prepare them for their next state proficiency test!!!
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I understand what you are saying but most jobs have changed. We can also discuss how close the cost of living is at a rural D4 school is in line with the salary like the living costs at a job in Jackson. What I am seeing is many are trying to have Jackson HS jobs and still live in rural Ohio if they can. Bottom line is teachers are getting out of teaching because they either no longer want to teach or it wasn't what they thought is was going to be.
 
We've turned many schools into large day care centers. It's not about education anymore. Teachers are handcuffed to do any kind of discipline for fear of retribution, and administrations don't have teachers backs many times. Folks we know the blueprint for success, we just choose not to do it. Discipline is a major factor in the learning process. Many kids come to school from undisciplined backgrounds. They NEED structure. Because public schools need tax payer dollars, no one wants to lay it on the line.
We need to bring back spanking in elementary schools. We need to have the threat of having kids repeat grades and being kicked out. That no longer happens. Do kids flunk anymore?
And my favorite suggestion. When you reach age 16, for most sophomore year, you decide if you wan to continue. If not fine, you graduate with a diploma and you start life, you have your driver's license, get a job and start your life. If you want to stay, ok, you'll finish out like now and get the advanced diploma and then start life. We have way too much dead weight in school that is just biding their time the last few years. I'd rather see that kid go work in a factory or a restaurant or something and be productive than causing trouble in their schools and not wanting to be there anyway.
Teachers like to teach kids who want to learn.
 
realball4468 said:
I think if a coach steps in the door and he/she inherited a team that has lost a lot and they have bad players it will be difficult to turn it around quickly and win. To turn it around faster the coach has to know how to push the right buttons of the best players they have (throw age out the door when evaluating). Can they get them to buy into more work despite the past losing. And is the coach component enough to develop them both mentally and skillfully. Some can do it, some think they can do it, and some can't do it. Tough hurdle and truly tests the desire of the coach.
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I think the one thing that makes a successful high school coach, especially in smaller communities is you have to not want to be liked. You have to be ok with making tough decision and ticking people off. In the area I live in, and I won't name names, two of the most successful coaches are guys who are not particularly popular. Basketball is the most difficult because the playing times and roles are limited. Just look at a current team. The parents of the 5 starters are probably happy, unless they don't like the role thier kid has on the team. There are probably 2/3 sets of parents who think their kid should be starting or playing more minutes. Likely over the last few years there are 8-10 kids in the high school who were on the basketball team and who either quit, or were told they were not going to play much and stepped away.
To build a good program, it starts in the elementary level. You have to get kids playing and excited to put time into basketball. You can't be teaching fundamental skills and doing basic stuff in middle school anymore. Repetition yes, introducing no. Good programs tend to stay good because the little ones in the community want to be the next set of varsity players.
 
14Red said:
We've turned many schools into large day care centers. It's not about education anymore. Teachers are handcuffed to do any kind of discipline for fear of retribution, and administrations don't have teachers backs many times. Folks we know the blueprint for success, we just choose not to do it. Discipline is a major factor in the learning process. Many kids come to school from undisciplined backgrounds. They NEED structure. Because public schools need tax payer dollars, no one wants to lay it on the line.
We need to bring back spanking in elementary schools. We need to have the threat of having kids repeat grades and being kicked out. That no longer happens. Do kids flunk anymore?
And my favorite suggestion. When you reach age 16, for most sophomore year, you decide if you wan to continue. If not fine, you graduate with a diploma and you start life, you have your driver's license, get a job and start your life. If you want to stay, ok, you'll finish out like now and get the advanced diploma and then start life. We have way too much dead weight in school that is just biding their time the last few years. I'd rather see that kid go work in a factory or a restaurant or something and be productive than causing trouble in their schools and not wanting to be there anyway.
Teachers like to teach kids who want to learn.
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no copyright infringement intended....

"We've turned many sports teams into large day care centers. It's not about teaching the sport anymore. Coaches are handcuffed to do any kind of discipline for fear of retribution, and administrations don't have coaches backs many time." LOL

a lot of adolescent brains these days...b/c parents don't groom...

If a coach holds you accountable for not doing what you are asked to do...the coach is picking on me.
If a coach asks you to work harder than you currently are...the coach is mean.
 
Zezzo! said:
Wow!! Certified of course.
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Bachelor Degree.
If you get your Master's degree and start teaching there you earn $54,697 in your first year.

Plus, I would consider Holmes County to be pretty rural. Starting pay for a first year teacher there is BA $41,341 and MA $45,268.
 
utsherman said:
Given the area he covers for The Mansfield News Journal, his commentary sounds eerily synchronous to the current situation playing out with Ontario basketball, and the recent happenings with Dave Carroll at Clear Fork. Methinks they are related. Lol.
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Jake wrote a horribly one sided piece of drivel after Carroll got rightfully fired. I'm not sure why he is such a big defender of a guy that 90% of the people wanted gone.
 
coltfan76 said:
Jake wrote a horribly one sided piece of drivel after Carroll got rightfully fired. I'm not sure why he is such a big defender of a guy that 90% of the people wanted gone.
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Dave Carroll was fired for something he had down for 14 years. The only difference was this time he upset a parent that has more influence and money then they others in the previous 13.
 
coltfan76 said:
You're 100% correct. He should have been fired 14 years before he was.
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I wasn't saying he should have been fired or should still be coaching. I'm saying I've heard he was consistent as a coach every year and was hired the next season until he upset the J. Jackson house.
 
Much like Coach Dale in Hoosiers, nothing like high school sports and coaching controversies. They go hand in hand in an age today where parents spend thousands of dollars grooming their kids for athletic success before they even get to high school. Many feel that because they are taxpayers, they have a stake in decision making of coaches for their schools sports teams, they don't care about what the program accomplished before their kids get there, nor do they care about it after their kids are gone.
And this should be a shout out to all coaches. These supplemental contracts are one year on length. No more, no less. You literally should never assume you're returning the next season. My guess after reading the article about Carroll being non renewed, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Coaches are leaders and are permitted to things their way, not the way parents or players want and that's ok. If a schools administration decides there is too much drama with a particular program, then removing the coach is an option.
 
I feel coaches know their contract is for one year, but every coach feels that is they put the work in, show success or improve, have a season without any MAJOR infractions AND have the support of their school admins they will be given another contract. Even coaches with a minor infractions are normally sat down and warned but given another season to correct problems, if everything went okay.
 
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