Is Notre Dame a better job than UC?!

Max Grumbleman

Max Grumbleman

Active member
UC has plans to pay coaches more money, improve facilities, and is about to move to the Big XII. What exactly makes Notre Dame the more attractive position?!

In Notre Dame's favor:
- Larger fan base
- Storied history
- Slightly more money
- ???

In UC's favor:
- Better regional recruiting and fewer restrictions on who can be recruited
- Less pressure / better job security
- A more direct route to a playoff spot via the Big XII
 
 
I think ND's luster has worn out. When their next TV deal comes up, get the pop corn ready.
 
A few years ago this would be an absurd question but with UC's recent success and moving to the Big XII, it's not clear why Fickell would choose to go to ND other than some kind of Catholic dream job scenario
 
Crusaders said:
A few years ago this would be an absurd question but with UC's recent success and moving to the Big XII, it's not clear why Fickell would choose to go to ND other than some kind of Catholic dream job scenario
Click to expand...
I think UC is being helped out by the COVID year, as was Michigan. There are UC fans who see a big drop off coming next year.
 
tom 48 said:
Only a rabid Bearcat fan would think that coach at UC is a better job than coach at Notre Dame.
Click to expand...
Not really. ND is trying to stay relevant using a brand that continues to diminish with time. Not by any fault of their own, but the Catholic aspect is losing steam and, for recruits who have eyes focused on the NFL rather than giving any care to school, ND isn't a place they're likely to consider if academics are gonna continue to be pushed. I still think ND, right now, is the "better" job, but I think nostalgia still has an affect on that. It's also been proven that UC can pull in good recruits from time to time and be successful in waves.
 
Hammerdrill said:
I think UC is being helped out by the COVID year, as was Michigan. There are UC fans who see a big drop off coming next year.
Click to expand...
Sure, in that they returned some guys who otherwise wouldn't have been back, but last year they were just as good with almost the exact same team. Really, they only had about 4 or 5 guys use the Covid year who are important pieces. Most of the big names are your typical college students.
 
Hammerdrill said:
I think UC is being helped out by the COVID year, as was Michigan. There are UC fans who see a big drop off coming next year.
Click to expand...
Define big drop off? I think you're correct in saying they've been helped by the Covid year, but they don't have that many 6th year players - 2, maybe 3 that play. They are one of the oldest teams in college football, as are Michigan and Oklahoma St, and can you believe it, they're 3 of the top 6 teams this year.
 
adselder09 said:
Define big drop off? I think you're correct in saying they've been helped by the Covid year, but they don't have that many 6th year players - 2, maybe 3 that play. They are one of the oldest teams in college football, as are Michigan and Oklahoma St, and can you believe it, they're 3 of the top 6 teams this year.
Click to expand...
I'm just going by what one of their super fans told me. He thinks this is the year. Sounds like your information supports that.
 
Hammerdrill said:
I'm just going by what one of their super fans told me. He thinks this is the year. Sounds like your information supports that.
Click to expand...
The only one I know off the top of my head is the MLB Deblanko. Maybe one of the DTs is, maybe one of the DBs is as well. I think their defense would still be really good regardless. They play about 20 guys on defense. I don't think they have any CV players on the offensive side of the ball.
 
Notre Dame by a lot. UC has a huge number of starters that are 4th-6th year players this year. This is as good as it's getting for them. The biggest appeal of the UC job is the combination of money and job security if you do well due to getting a bump in the Big XII.

Notre Dame as an independent will get a lot more respect than anyone in the new Big XII. That league is going to get treated as if it's by far the worst P5 league whether it is or not due to the lack of major brands.
 
Everyone has a lot of Covid players. I don't see how that's an argument against UC.

The Big XII boost is likely already making an impact. Fickell is putting together the best class in UC history, possibly a Top 25 class. You can argue that it's just the beginning for the program in their new conference, so I expect they’ll throw the kitchen sink to keep him around
 
Last edited:
Crusaders said:
A few years ago this would be an absurd question but with UC's recent success and moving to the Big XII, it's not clear why Fickell would choose to go to ND other than some kind of Catholic dream job scenario
Click to expand...
Big 12 games not involving Oklahoma are a total afterthought. Why would any coach want to helm an afterthought?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

AEW Champion: Greatness Personified
 
Oklahoma and Texas are about to enter a world of pain in the SEC. The media in that part of the country is going to have no choice but to focus on the better teams in their backyard in the Big XII
 
AEW Champion said:
Big 12 games not involving Oklahoma are a total afterthought. Why would any coach want to helm an afterthought?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

AEW Champion: Greatness Personified
Click to expand...
New Big 12 is sitting there with four teams in the CFP Rankings, same as the B1G and ACC (4) and more than the Pac 12 (2). They also have 3 teams in the top 10, same as the SEC (3).
 
The problem with the new Big XII is that the existing teams in the footprint are going to have to recruit in Texas without the alure of playing Texas and Oklahoma. No premium brand local opponents and all of your games are in 40k-60k seat stadiums with some now very long potential trips. The only one of those series that might continue is Bedlam.

It is going to get a lot harder for the Oklahoma States and Baylors to recruit that high 3/low 4 star kid from DFW that Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, etc. are also pursuing when they aren't playing the Longhorns or the Sooners and those schools are playing both as well as several other big name brands.
 
adselder09 said:
The only one I know off the top of my head is the MLB Deblanko. Maybe one of the DTs is, maybe one of the DBs is as well. I think their defense would still be really good regardless. They play about 20 guys on defense. I don't think they have any CV players on the offensive side of the ball.
Click to expand...
Deblanko, Bryant, Beavers, Brooks are all Covid year guys. So, important guys, but, yeah, defense would still be good. Only Michael Young on offense took a Covid year and he’s the 4th WR at best this year.
 
tom 48 said:
Only a rabid Bearcat fan would think that coach at UC is a better job than coach at Notre Dame.
Click to expand...
Maybe. But it's hard to argue that the difference hasn't shrunk a great deal in the last 5 years.

This is an interesting situation. I can make equally compelling arguments on why Fickle is good as gone to ND and why he won't take the job. I'll throw out some stuff:

Going to ND:
* It's ND. You become one of the top 3 most talked about head coaches in college football. Your media spotlight will never be this big at UC. If the decision is based purely on ego Fickle can't say no to ND.

Staying at UC:
* Where would his wife rather live? South Bend or metro Cincinnati? How about the rest of his family?

* He enjoys an expectation sweet spot at UC. The football program is clearly being prioritized by the university so the resources are there, but the local media and fan base aren't putting crazy pressure on Fickle to win ALL THE TIME. In the coming years where does Fickle get the most heat for a 7 - 5 season?

* Now that Ohio State is a national recruiter Fickle basically has first dibs on all the Ohio HS players, outside of the 2 - 3 super recruits OSU goes after, in Ohio. This gives him a systemic recruiting advantage. Throw in the fact that UC football recruits will be less academically challenged then those at ND and the UC job is probably easier to accumulate elite football talent. That's why Kelly left ND.

* I really believe that if UC makes the playoffs this year and with their move to the Big 12 it will be easier for future UC teams to make the playoffs then ND - even after expansion. The move to the Big 12 is a big deal and the increased revenue flow and larger stage will cut the football perception gap between ND & UC even further.

I'm probably just whistling past the graveyard here and Fickle is as good as gone to ND. If he leaves I don't think he will leave before the end of the season if the bearcats make the playoffs. So ND will have to wait for Fickle until mid January.

This leads to one last Hail Mary pass on why UC keeps Fickle. ND will save a lot of money going with Freeman. Now I get that football is important to ND and they will be willing to spend big bucks. But they aren't in Hollywood or the SEC and potentially having to pay millions of dollars less per year will matter in some quarters of that university.
 
lotr10 said:
Maybe. But it's hard to argue that the difference hasn't shrunk a great deal in the last 5 years.

This is an interesting situation. I can make equally compelling arguments on why Fickle is good as gone to ND and why he won't take the job. I'll throw out some stuff:

Going to ND:
* It's ND. You become one of the top 3 most talked about head coaches in college football. Your media spotlight will never be this big at UC. If the decision is based purely on ego Fickle can't say no to ND.

Staying at UC:
* Where would his wife rather live? South Bend or metro Cincinnati? How about the rest of his family?

* He enjoys an expectation sweet spot at UC. The football program is clearly being prioritized by the university so the resources are there, but the local media and fan base aren't putting crazy pressure on Fickle to win ALL THE TIME. In the coming years where does Fickle get the most heat for a 7 - 5 season?

* Now that Ohio State is a national recruiter Fickle basically has first dibs on all the Ohio HS players, outside of the 2 - 3 super recruits OSU goes after, in Ohio. This gives him a systemic recruiting advantage. Throw in the fact that UC football recruits will be less academically challenged then those at ND and the UC job is probably easier to accumulate elite football talent. That's why Kelly left ND.

* I really believe that if UC makes the playoffs this year and with their move to the Big 12 it will be easier for future UC teams to make the playoffs then ND - even after expansion. The move to the Big 12 is a big deal and the increased revenue flow and larger stage will cut the football perception gap between ND & UC even further.

I'm probably just whistling past the graveyard here and Fickle is as good as gone to ND. If he leaves I don't think he will leave before the end of the season if the bearcats make the playoffs. So ND will have to wait for Fickle until mid January.

This leads to one last Hail Mary pass on why UC keeps Fickle. ND will save a lot of money going with Freeman. Now I get that football is important to ND and they will be willing to spend big bucks. But they aren't in Hollywood or the SEC and potentially having to pay millions of dollars less per year will matter in some quarters of that university.
Click to expand...
ND can outspend anyone but the two big Texas Schools and Oregon.
 


Jordan Strack

@JordanStrack

I can tell you with 100% certainty that Matt Campbell is interested in the Notre Dame job. It’s one of the very few jobs in the country he’d take. He had turned down a ton of other opportunities. He’s always viewed Notre Dame as a destination job
 
Many ND fans are ecstatic that Kelly is gone. They describe him as a total " jerk." here is a story from si.com about when he was coach at Central Michigan:

On a winter night in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, Matt LaFleur and Robert Saleh thought they were invited to a party at the home of their boss, Central Michigan University football coach Brian Kelly.

Turns out, they weren’t on the guest list.

They were on the worker list.

"We shoveled the snow and parked all the cars," Saleh said. "Then, at the end of the night, we had to go get the cars again."

And then they went back to the tiny apartment they shared as graduate assistants and stood around their kitchen table—the one without any chairs.

"We decided that when we’re in that position, we’re never going to treat people the way we got treated," said Saleh, now the San Francisco 49ers defensive coordinator. "And Matty’s lived up to it."

And...

Kelly’s move to Baton Rouge came seemingly out of nowhere. Even his own assistants learned of his departure through media reports. Kelly sent a group text to his players in which he apologized that they had to find out this way and called a 7 a.m. meeting to tell them in person that he was ditching them. Kelly left the Notre Dame campus at 7:11 after reportedly speaking with the team for “less than two minutes.”
 
tom 48 said:
Many ND fans are ecstatic that Kelly is gone. They describe him as a total " jerk." here is a story from si.com about when he was coach at Central Michigan:

On a winter night in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, Matt LaFleur and Robert Saleh thought they were invited to a party at the home of their boss, Central Michigan University football coach Brian Kelly.

Turns out, they weren’t on the guest list.

They were on the worker list.

"We shoveled the snow and parked all the cars," Saleh said. "Then, at the end of the night, we had to go get the cars again."

And then they went back to the tiny apartment they shared as graduate assistants and stood around their kitchen table—the one without any chairs.

"We decided that when we’re in that position, we’re never going to treat people the way we got treated," said Saleh, now the San Francisco 49ers defensive coordinator. "And Matty’s lived up to it."

And...

Kelly’s move to Baton Rouge came seemingly out of nowhere. Even his own assistants learned of his departure through media reports. Kelly sent a group text to his players in which he apologized that they had to find out this way and called a 7 a.m. meeting to tell them in person that he was ditching them. Kelly left the Notre Dame campus at 7:11 after reportedly speaking with the team for “less than two minutes.”
Click to expand...

Don't forget he killed a kid.
 
TylerDurden said:
Don't forget he killed a kid.
Click to expand...
Also one of his players was accused of raping/sexually assaulting a girl and the player/school saw no sort of punishment as a result. Girl ended up killing herself shortly after reporting it and after receiving threatening texts telling her not to mess with ND football.
 
Hammerdrill said:
I'm just going by what one of their super fans told me. He thinks this is the year. Sounds like your information supports that.
Click to expand...
This is UC's year for sure but its not because of covid. Its because they're senior heavy on defense with a phenomenal QB. Next year the defense will be young and the offense will be the strength depending on how 4* Prater steps up at QB. If some guys cash in their "covid year" for an extra year on defense then next year could be just as good.

Regardless, recruiting has been trending upward, so more consistently strong teams SHOULD be on the way.
 
SC10EHS15 said:
Also one of his players was accused of raping/sexually assaulting a girl and the player/school saw no sort of punishment as a result. Girl ended up killing herself shortly after reporting it and after receiving threatening texts telling her not to mess with ND football.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I would bet that this sort of thing happens at many, if not most, major college sports programs ( not the suicide, but the crime, the lack of punishment, and the persecution of the accuser). I would venture to say that this has trickled down to some high schools also. But, for a school that proudly advertised the " Catholics vs Convicts" slogan, it is far more reprehensible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top