GMC 21-22 Basketball

[Smarty2022]

Haha. It’s pretty rare for someone to hang on the rim for the purpose of avoiding someone under him. Everyone knows damn well why they do it. There’s almost always someone close enough to use this excuse but that doesn’t mean the refs have to buy it. If you don’t like the rule that’s fine but a ref enforcing the rule is not making it about him.

Think Jballer just a constant complainer about the Officials. Probably one of a few of those GMC know it all parents.

 

[DK_00]

Haha. It’s pretty rare for someone to hang on the rim for the purpose of avoiding someone under him. Everyone knows damn well why they do it. There’s almost always someone close enough to use this excuse but that doesn’t mean the refs have to buy it. If you don’t like the rule that’s fine but a ref enforcing the rule is not making it about him.

Did you see the dunk? He caught a pass in stride took 1 step elevated two hand slammed it and momentum swung him forward so his feet swung up he had to hold on to not have his feet fly out from under him and get seriously injured. Not to mention the player that was 2 ft behind him as he elevated on the dunk!
It should have not been a T. If you didn’t see it then don’t defend it!!

 

[oxat622]

I don't know if either team will get much further into the postseason, but Princeton/Walnut should be a GREAT high school tournament game. Haven't been able to see the Vikes all year, but looking forward to getting to this one.

 

[JBaller]

Think Jballer just a constant complainer about the Officials. Probably one of a few of those GMC know it all parents.

Not even a parent of a kid at Sycamore, just an alum with little kids who moved back to the area a few year ago. Officiating has been a big problem this year. You can't watch a college basketball game and then watch a high school game and not notice how vastly inferior high school officiating is. I know the college officials are professional and the high school ones are amateur, but the difference is so striking. It didn't used to be this bad. And it's one thing for the officials to just be bad, but they're acting arrogantly in how they call these games. They think they're professional officials and that's even worse. They're refereeing kids. Are they not allowed to dunk? Are they not allowed to show emotion in a one-and-done tournament? Short of there being a borderline fight, they should not be calling technical fouls on players, period. If the players do or say something they don't like, talk to them at the next dead ball. Talk to the coaches (not really seeing much of this at all). Take charge of the game. Don't influence it.

 

[JBaller]

I don't know if either team will get much further into the postseason, but Princeton/Walnut should be a GREAT high school tournament game. Haven't been able to see the Vikes all year, but looking forward to getting to this one.

I would love to be at this game, but I'll be going to Sycamore-Middletown on Friday. Atmosphere down at West Clermont should be pretty awesome too with the Turpin-Elder, East-West doubleheader.

 

[Historymade]

Not even a parent of a kid at Sycamore, just an alum with little kids who moved back to the area a few year ago. Officiating has been a big problem this year. You can't watch a college basketball game and then watch a high school game and not notice how vastly inferior high school officiating is. I know the college officials are professional and the high school ones are amateur, but the difference is so striking. It didn't used to be this bad. And it's one thing for the officials to just be bad, but they're acting arrogantly in how they call these games. They think they're professional officials and that's even worse. They're refereeing kids. Are they not allowed to dunk? Are they not allowed to show emotion in a one-and-done tournament? Short of there being a borderline fight, they should not be calling technical fouls on players, period. If the players do or say something they don't like, talk to them at the next dead ball. Talk to the coaches (not really seeing much of this at all). Take charge of the game. Don't influence it.

Very well said. I could not agree more. There are good officials but it does seem like a large number come in with a chip on their shoulder and somehow feel good about having some authority over kids! It’s actually embarrassing and ridiculous. The best simply fade into the background.

 

[JBaller]

Did you see the dunk? He caught a pass in stride took 1 step elevated two hand slammed it and momentum swung him forward so his feet swung up he had to hold on to not have his feet fly out from under him and get seriously injured. Not to mention the player that was 2 ft behind him as he elevated on the dunk!
It should have not been a T. If you didn’t see it then don’t defend it!!

Watching the video replay of the technical dunk on Middletown is even worse than it was live. Should have been an and-1 and he was hanging on the rim for not even half a second. Only reason his feet swung up was because he was fouled. The other two officials wouldn't even let the Middletown coach talk to the ref who called it, and the ref who called it went and stood on the other side of the court.

 

[EHS 2001]

I believe this video shows the dunk in question.

 

[JBaller]

Maybe not a foul from that angle but there’s still no way that’s a technical. Kid was running full speed directly at the rim. What do you want him to do?

 

[adselder09]

Admittedly was a little skeptical of JBaller because he's been tough on the officiating for most games, but I'm not sure what else the kid from Middletown was supposed to do? Let go and fall on his back? Let his legs swing back, while letting go to hit the opposing player on the way down? The leg swing was all momentum from sprinting ahead on the fast break. Very weak call.

 

[AllSports12]

Admittedly was a little skeptical of JBaller because he's been tough on the officiating for most games,

His description of what he saw (which in reality, didn't happen) in person at the end of the Middletown/St.Xavier game is right up there with the "and one" that he said should have happened on this dunk. On one hand he says the only reason the player's legs swung was because he was fouled...... then comes back and admits he wasn't fouled.... So why the leg swing then? (that may not have been the reason for the T)

He obviously has an axe to grind with officials and that clouds his view of what he thinks he sees...... so be it.

but I'm not sure what else the kid from Middletown was supposed to do? Let go and fall on his back? Let his legs swing back, while letting go to hit the opposing player on the way down? The leg swing was all momentum from sprinting ahead on the fast break. Very weak call.

I'd love to see this from a different angle that gives the accurate view of the space between the dunker and the player trailing. It would also provide a better view of what happened when his legs swung back. Many times there's and extra "tug" upwards that results in the technical foul.

At the end of the day, the player is responsible for his own body. If he cannot control it when dunking with nobody underneath him, that's 100% on him.

 

[OkolonaBlues]

Maybe not a foul? He ran 3 ft to his side. Momentum yes, lifting and kicking the backside of the support and board, no. Just my opinion…

 

[AllSports12]

The other two officials wouldn't even let the Middletown coach talk to the ref who called it, and the ref who called it went and stood on the other side of the court.

Which is exactly what is supposed to happen. I'd be willing to bet (and I'll find out) that the other two let the coach blow off some steam before they put the ball in play. I'd also be willing to bet that a few minutes later when all had moved on, the two (calling official and coach) had a discussion on the play.

Happens all the time.

 

[OnTheLine85]

Sycamore leads Anderson 16-15 after 1.

His description of what he saw (which in reality, didn't happen) in person at the end of the Middletown/St.Xavier game is right up there with the "and one" that he said should have happened on this dunk. On one hand he says the only reason the player's legs swung was because he was fouled...... then comes back and admits he wasn't fouled.... So why the leg swing then? (that may not have been the reason for the T)

He obviously has an axe to grind with officials and that clouds his view of what he thinks he sees...... so be it.

I'd love to see this from a different angle that gives the accurate view of the space between the dunker and the player trailing. It would also provide a better view of what happened when his legs swung back. Many times there's and extra "tug" upwards that results in the technical foul.

At the end of the day, the player is responsible for his own body. If he cannot control it while dunking, that's 100% on him.

You cannot be serious with this post. This is exhibit A of why people have started to come down much harder on refs lately, which most people agree their performance has plummeted recently - a ref will never admit their mistake or the mistakes of any of their colleagues.

If you look at the video, there are plenty of times a ref calls a foul on an attack to the rim when this subtle push is made to a jumping player. He absolutely made contact with a sight push and at the speed the dunker was going, could have made it dangerous. Was it overt? No and I can see why it wasn't call - but have definitely seen it called in past similar situations many times.

And second and most surprisingly, if this kid doesn't swing on the rim, he flips in the air and lands on his back or head, no doubt. His momentum absolutely allows him to have some time to hang on the rim so he doesn't get hurt. To say otherwise is simply asinine. In fact, he showed tremendous body control being able to do this and not fall on his head. There is ZERO reason this should have been a technical foul.

Again, a ref just typed this response above. And we wonder why their performance has obviously deteriorated?

 

[OnTheLine85]

Not even a parent of a kid at Sycamore, just an alum with little kids who moved back to the area a few year ago. Officiating has been a big problem this year. You can't watch a college basketball game and then watch a high school game and not notice how vastly inferior high school officiating is. I know the college officials are professional and the high school ones are amateur, but the difference is so striking. It didn't used to be this bad. And it's one thing for the officials to just be bad, but they're acting arrogantly in how they call these games. They think they're professional officials and that's even worse. They're refereeing kids. Are they not allowed to dunk? Are they not allowed to show emotion in a one-and-done tournament? Short of there being a borderline fight, they should not be calling technical fouls on players, period. If the players do or say something they don't like, talk to them at the next dead ball. Talk to the coaches (not really seeing much of this at all). Take charge of the game. Don't influence it.

I absolutely agree with you.

I have no axe to grind, but as I mentioned in the post above, ref performance and competence has taken a severe downturn. It's not surprising given the shortage, but anyone that says it hasn't really isn't paying attention. There are alot of bad officials at the high school level. Again, likely necessary, so I get why it's happening - but to say it hasn't deteriorated is not being honest.

I also agree with the arrogance of the refs. It's gotten worse. Again, perhaps that's an output of having to put up with too much crap from the stands, but that's also something that is obvious.

 

[EHS 2001]

Here's the link to the NFHSNetwork.com stream of the game: https://www.nfhsnetwork.com/events/lakota-west-west-chester-oh/gam4f0f7d2a55#
The play in question occurs around the 46 minute mark of the video.

Also a few screenshots from the stream.

 

[Historymade]

His description of what he saw (which in reality, didn't happen) in person at the end of the Middletown/St.Xavier game is right up there with the "and one" that he said should have happened on this dunk. On one hand he says the only reason the player's legs swung was because he was fouled...... then comes back and admits he wasn't fouled.... So why the leg swing then? (that may not have been the reason for the T)

He obviously has an axe to grind with officials and that clouds his view of what he thinks he sees...... so be it.

I'd love to see this from a different angle that gives the accurate view of the space between the dunker and the player trailing. It would also provide a better view of what happened when his legs swung back. Many times there's and extra "tug" upwards that results in the technical foul.

At the end of the day, the player is responsible for his own body. If he cannot control it when dunking with nobody underneath him, that's 100% on him.

You have obviously never played the game and/or have never dunked a basketball. This take lacks all understanding of playing a very athletic game.

 

[Historymade]

I absolutely agree with you.

I have no axe to grind, but as I mentioned in the post above, ref performance and competence has taken a severe downturn. It's not surprising given the shortage, but anyone that says it hasn't really isn't paying attention. There are alot of bad officials at the high school level. Again, likely necessary, so I get why it's happening - but to say it hasn't deteriorated is not being honest.

I also agree with the arrogance of the refs. It's gotten worse. Again, perhaps that's an output of having to put up with too much crap, but that's also something that is obvious.

I would never want to be an official and believe it is a very difficult job. However I also don't believe the difficulty of the job should excuse arrogance and having an axe to grind with kids.

 

[Carl Rick]

The best officials: Talk to players, especially early in the game. Talk to coaches, the rule has changed and ignored so not even sure where it is but there was a time, they put the rule where the official who made the call went to scorer table, so the coach wasn't yelling across the floor. Allow the players to play, fewer fouls > more fouls. Are consistent. Don't try to make the big call. Work together as a Team, 3 potential opinions of a foul means it is important for them to discuss, adjust to each other. It stinks when 3 guys call it their way. It appears the # of younger good officials is not very good. Some of the older ones don't like to be questioned. Overall, I have always believed SW Ohio officials were among the best. I haven't watched as many games in NE and Central Ohio as I previously have.

 

[OnTheLine85]

At the end of the day, the player is responsible for his own body. If he cannot control it when dunking with nobody underneath him, that's 100% on him.

Well, that's exactly what he did. Complete control. And he was penalized for it.

100% the wrong call.

 

[AllSports12]

You have obviously never played the game and/or have never dunked a basketball. This take lacks all understanding of playing a very athletic game.

You would be wrong on all accounts ?

That said, after seeing two separate videos from different angles, including the one I said I would have liked to see….

My view as an official…..

- There was no one underneath the player
- There was no excessive pulling on the rim after the dunk

I would not have issued the technical foul. My opinion is that it was a miss.

However, It’s no where close to a 100% dead no or dead yes…

Kind of blows the accusation that I blindly back officials because I’m an official doesn’t it ? ?

 

[yj_runfan]

I reffed many years ago. I don’t think I would call a T on that but I’d let him know to be careful. On the other hand, there was absolutely no one under him that he was protecting by swinging on the rim. This illustrates how far off some of the stories posted here can be.

 

[JElder]

Yes it is. Both cases were one extra extended swing to wait for the opposing player to clear underneath. Nothing wrong with that. It’s an official wanting to show how smart he is. There is definitely a difference between showing up an opponent and trying to avoid an injury. They weren’t doing a pull-up on the rim, they weren’t screaming or talking to the opponent. Both were simply waiting for the opponent to clear.

With all the expert advice you have been giving about officiating you should join their ranks. You seem to know everything.

 

[Carl Rick]

Back to the games......2 games tonight. Any Hamilton people out there? Update on state of affairs?

 

[JBaller]

I don’t want to harp on the officials, but I’ve watched 9 games in this tournament and seen 8 technical fouls, with 2 on coaches and 6! on players. That’s too high, especially the number called on players. Of the two on coaches, one was well-deserved by the losing coach in a blowout while the other one was called from across the court on a coach complaining about a call (and hadn’t really been complaining during the game) in what ended up being a 2-point game. Of the ones on players, two have been for hanging on the rim, two for “trash-talking” after a player made a big shot in a close game (one player just screamed; the other yelled “and-one” on an and-one), and one for a poor body reaction to an official’s call. The only deserved one was a player slapping the ball away to the corner after the whistle in the closing seconds when it was clear his team was going to lose. Why the need to call this number of technicals?

Anyway, back to discussing GMC games, since this is a GMC basketball thread.

Hamilton-Moeller and Fairfield-Withrow tonight.

 

[JBaller]

Back to the games......2 games tonight. Any Hamilton people out there? Update on state of affairs?

I haven’t really seen them on the basketball thread this year. Have to think their COVID layoff rust is gone by this point. What do they need to do to beat Moeller?

 

[OnTheLine85]

I reffed many years ago. I don’t think I would call a T on that but I’d let him know to be careful. On the other hand, there was absolutely no one under him that he was protecting by swinging on the rim. This illustrates how far off some of the stories posted here can be.

You're not getting it.

Him swinging had nothing to do with someone being under him. It was because his momentum was so strong, and if he let go, he would have flipped on his head.

It goes back to the other poster that stated the only way you understand this is if you ever dunked. He hung on to keep from violently falling on his head.

Seriously? If refs can't even understand this....

 

[cincyhoops]

You're not getting it.

Him swinging had nothing to do with someone being under him. It was because his momentum was so strong, and if he let go, he would have flipped on his head.

It goes back to the other poster that stated the only way you understand this is if you ever dunked. He hung on to keep from violently falling on his head.

Seriously? If refs can't even understand this....

I agree should not have been a T. I think pulling the knees up probably got him, but I wouldn't have called it.

 

[Sig]

I reffed many years ago. I don’t think I would call a T on that but I’d let him know to be careful. On the other hand, there was absolutely no one under him that he was protecting by swinging on the rim. This illustrates how far off some of the stories posted here can be.

There’s a kid to his right and another one trailing behind. From what I’m reading from some is suggesting he should just let go here.

 

[OnTheLine85]

There’s a kid to his right and another one trailing behind. From what I’m reading from some is suggesting he should just let go here.

Exactly - sorry kid, you better flip on your head otherwise you get a technical.