Getting sick of Pool Tournaments

C

CoachOney

Active member
Is anyone else getting tired of the pool format? I just ran a tournament this weekend that was a pool format. The tourney went well, and ran fast, but there is just something about the format that I don't like in this part of the season. I understand how important it is to get kids experience, especially new kids. But, new wrestlers need to learn how to Win/Compete in a double elimination bracketed format as well. Thoughts?
 
 
Personal opinion: There is a time and a place for pool tournaments. January - and certainly February - is not it. Weeks one and two - maybe even week 3 - hit it up. Christmas break though? Time to turn that corner.

However, if a school is hosting a pool tournament, and people attend, then those teams feel there is a benefit to them. I'm sure the pendulum will swing back and forth for many years to come.

I bet Algea Bond never wrestled in a pool tournament in high school.
 
I have to disagree.
Our best individual tournaments are weeks 2-6.
I like pool and dual tourneys now because it lets us regroup. Pool tourneys let the younger guys who went 0-2 get some mat time and some wins.
The next phase of the season is the team dual aspect. Pool and and dual tourneys let kids focus round by round typically in weight order as we go through the tournament. Pool tournaments seem to have more a team aspect because every kid is wrestling every round, not just the ones that are winning. January/ February to me is the team bonding time, relying on the team aspect to get through the doldrums.
Focus on team for the next month and then flip back over to individual right at the end. I think pools are the perfect fit for this time of year...
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t the 5 match limit push schools to use the pool format for one day tournaments?

Wouldn’t most if not all bracketed tournaments turn into two day tournaments? Then the points issue comes into play..... a lot of variables to consider. I really do not have a problem with the way tournaments are ran with the current restraints.....
 
Not necessarily against pool tournaments, but when you have to wrestle the same person twice in one day, that is the part that I don't like. This particular tournament had 2 pools of 4 each in it. Top 2 from each pool go to a semi final bracket and guess what can happen in that scenario. I like having 5 matches in a day, but having one of those be the same person is the part I could do without.
 
cruiser_96 said:
Personal opinion: There is a time and a place for pool tournaments. January - and certainly February - is not it. Weeks one and two - maybe even week 3 - hit it up. Christmas break though? Time to turn that corner.

However, if a school is hosting a pool tournament, and people attend, then those teams feel there is a benefit to them. I'm sure the pendulum will swing back and forth for many years to come.


I would have to agree as well. I think it is important to get kids matches at the start of the year , but when you hit break and in to January it is good to get kids to understand how to come back from losing in a tournament that is double elimination so that they are used to it for the post season.
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I have always loved the Hephner Tournament in Austintown. 2 day tournament with lots of good wrestling. Back in the day (when I wrestled), I never heard of a pool tournament. When my kids wrestled (at Alliance) in the Hephner it was the 1st time I attended a pool tournament. I loved it.
 
Limiting the number of matches to less than 5 makes no sense what so ever. No one gets better by wrestling fewer matches, it is just silly to even suggest it. The regular season is nothing more than practice for sectionals, district and state.
 
CoachOney said:
Is anyone else getting tired of the pool format? I just ran a tournament this weekend that was a pool format. The tourney went well, and ran fast, but there is just something about the format that I don't like in this part of the season. I understand how important it is to get kids experience, especially new kids. But, new wrestlers need to learn how to Win/Compete in a double elimination bracketed format as well. Thoughts?
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Am I the only one wondering why you ran it as a pool and not a bracket tournament is you hate pool tournaments?


Latman said:
Not necessarily against pool tournaments, but when you have to wrestle the same person twice in one day, that is the part that I don't like. This particular tournament had 2 pools of 4 each in it. Top 2 from each pool go to a semi final bracket and guess what can happen in that scenario. I like having 5 matches in a day, but having one of those be the same person is the part I could do without.
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You can still run into this problem in a bracket tourney. Granted it obviously can't happen in a championship match, but can happen in the Consi semis or placement matches.
 
Majority of JV tournaments should probably be Pool.

Majority of Varsity tournaments starting after Christmas should probably be bracket. A few exceptions here and there, sure. I dont think we should do away with pool tournaments at the varsity level completely but you should know what the tournament is based on its format. Pool = get experience. Bracket = High stakes, tougher matches through the day.

Make your schedule accordingly.
 
You do get better by going 0 and 2 and a tournament. You have to look at yourself and say damn I need to get better if I actually want to wrestle. These pool tournaments give the kids experience but the harsh reality of going 0 and 2 doesn't motivate them enough. It sucks going 2 and out and it should make you wanna work harder. Have em sit in the gym and watch there teammates and maybe they can think about how to get better. Its probably the best lesson a wrestler can get. For season no one wants use the lesson. I don't get it.
 
BHiatt said:
If you are sick of pool tournaments, don't attend them.

Depending on the make-up of my team and the time of the season, I personally believe there are benefits for both - and I set my schedule accordingly.
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I wanted this to be my point, but I failed miserably making it. Thank you, B.

#FreeMarket
 
Thank you guys/gals. Above are All good points, and why I posted. There is a time and place for pools. I have a number of younger wrestlers that NEED extra matches and get them. There is a time and a place for Brackets as well.

As to why I ran a pool this past weekend; I had a number of teams that were committed to our tournament drop out. When we had 18 teams committed I was going to run a bracketed tournament. 4 teams dropped out due to scheduling mishaps. I did not want to deal with tons of byes. Either way, People have personal feelings toward both, and I wanted to see what the community thought as a whole. I appreciate the input, and whole heartedly agree that your schedule should meet the needs of your team. And for the record, I didn't say I hated pools, I said I was sick of them:)
Enjoy your day and good luck this week and weekend guys/girls!
 
miketyson said:
You do get better by going 0 and 2 and a tournament. You have to look at yourself and say damn I need to get better if I actually want to wrestle. These pool tournaments give the kids experience but the harsh reality of going 0 and 2 doesn't motivate them enough. It sucks going 2 and out and it should make you wanna work harder. Have em sit in the gym and watch there teammates and maybe they can think about how to get better. Its probably the best lesson a wrestler can get. For season no one wants use the lesson. I don't get it.
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Someone please tell me he's just trolling?
 
Can we at least agree that if you feel compelled to run a pool tournament for the sake of "more mat time" that you at least put the top 6 in one pool and the bottom 6 in the other? Currently the first 3 rounds (and arguably 4) are all almost always useless. Total mismatches and very little benefit to either wrestler. Score the placements in Pool "A" if team scoring is a priority.

PS: I wonder how many coaches realize that 95% of a wrestlers "mat time" will be in the practice room regardless of pool or bracketed competition? More mat time? Hardly......
 
The only reason pool tournaments began to happen , was to get as many matches as you can ! The other reason is because teams having so many holes in lineups forced it to happen so Johnny doesn’t get a bye into the finals !
 
Ohio Blast said:
Can we at least agree that if you feel compelled to run a pool tournament for the sake of "more mat time" that you at least put the top 6 in one pool and the bottom 6 in the other? Currently the first 3 rounds (and arguably 4) are all almost always useless. Total mismatches and very little benefit to either wrestler. Score the placements in Pool "A" if team scoring is a priority.

PS: I wonder how many coaches realize that 95% of a wrestlers "mat time" will be in the practice room regardless of pool or bracketed competition? More mat time? Hardly......
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Nothing like getting more mat time and going 0-5.
 
You can still run into this problem in a bracket tourney. Granted it obviously can't happen in a championship match, but can happen in the Consi semis or placement matches.
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Yes, good point. I guess I was focused on the finals match where you just wrestled a person in pool play and now have to wrestle them in the finals again. This only happened in the pools with 4 or fewer wrestlers, where weights with 10 wrestlers broken into 2 pools of 5 didn't have this issue as they only sent the pool winners to the finals.
 
One tournament format that I really like for late January / February is a 16-man double elimination bracket, however all first round losers get moved to a separate 8-man double elimination bracket. The Ferguson tournament in WV is set-up this way and I always thought that our good kids and younger kids both got something out of it; win or go home feel, but against comparable competition.

We ended up leaving that tournament due to a scheduling conflict and I haven't found another one like it yet.
 
eyes r burning said:
Nothing like getting more mat time and going 0-5.
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This was Ben Askren's POV on his old podcast and is what I've seen as well. The number of times a new/bad wrestler goes 0-5 in a tournament and feels completely depressed and beaten down and wants to (or does) quit versus finally getting one win and getting reinvigorated is like 1000:1 at best. It's doubly ridiculous for JV when all the tournaments start at least an hour late anyway so it becomes a 12 hour time commitment for a tournament which no one is even keeping team score.
 
Pool tournament are set up with the idea that the stronger wrestlers stay together and the less stronger kids compete. Our sports numbers are diminishing bc it’s a tough sport. It’s a humiliating sport at times ! What is bad for the sport , getting a tech in 1 min appose to pinned in 15 seconds? Outcomes of matches affect each person differently . There is a balance . I recall a match when older brother was toying with younger brother ... 19-7 or so and big brother show boating when little brother caught him and stuck him ! It was almost , hilarious to see happen . There is a dad happy and beyond excited that his little guy caught the older brother . Yet he was sad big brother was embarrassed he got caught trying not to embarrass little brother ! Life lessons come in the strangest of ways ! This sport is about perseverance, humility and respect ! Somewhere along the lines that has been lost with the 100 wins in a career or most takedowns in a season etc ! For those that love the sport , finding a way to grow the numbers of participants to make the sport competitive on all levels is the goal !
 
We simply dont bring wrestlers with losing records to any tough varsity tournaments. They are generally matched with seeded wrestlers and they will not get better with two matches or ten if the competition is way above their means. There are tons of events for inexperienced wrestlers especially the iron boys in Marlington held 3x a year run by Mr Roosevelt and Harry Truman. Pool tournaments push shape and conditioning and wrestling with fatigue and quick turn around and sometimes the same guy which all happen at 1 day sectionals and districts as well. Its something to go back and reference with your student athletes at tournament time.
 
pool tournaments have there good an there bad aspects to them... good is you get most of the time 4-5 matches.... and yes that is experience.. the bad is instead of and sub par wrestler losing twice badly they lose 3-5 times in one day badly. Also with the bad... the high school 100 match milestone is really no longer a milestone. With all this being said I do believe it is great for middle school tournaments.
 
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