GCL records

SLS

Active member
Does anyone know if the GCL records listed on the GCL page were all set at the GCL meet? The records listed are only on the GCL South site. The GCL Coed site has no records listed. Some of the records that are shown were set by individuals that were on the old GCL North teams. The shot record was set when the GCL had only one division.Just trying to get some clarity.
 

Seek Up

Active member
I believe all of those performances were at the GCL meet. Obviously, the records are not up-to-date (3200m and maybe others are incorrect) and include teams from multiple divisions of the conference. Lancermania would be the best person to ask.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Here is what I have for the GCL Championship meet records. Corrections are requested.

GCL CHAMPIONSHIP MEET RECORDS

3200 Meter Relay- Ethan Bokeno, Alex Thiery, Kevin Kluesener, Travis Hawes, La Salle, 7:51.31, 2011
110 Meter Hurdles- Jim Ramstetter, Elder, 14.2h, 2000
100 Meter Dash- Henry Young III, St. Xavier, 10.66, 2018
800 Meter Relay- Tim Bell, Adam Franklin, Jaleel Hytchye, Antonio Nelson, La Salle, 1:29.66, 2012
1600 Meter Run- Steve Padgett, La Salle, 4:16.0h, 2000
400 Meter Relay- Benjamin Ferguson, T.J. Ahrens, King Hudson, Henry Young III, St. Xavier, 42.25, 2018
400 Meter Dash- Devier Posey, La Salle, 48.5h, 2008
300 Meter Hurdles- Cory Ochs, St. Xavier, 39.16, 2010
800 Meter Run- Kyle Schreiner, St. Xavier, 1:54.6h, 2000
200 Meter Dash- Devier Posey, La Salle, 21.7h, 2008
3200 Meter Run- Evan Stifel, St. Xavier, 9:13.10, 2014
1600 Meter Relay- Cameron Cole, Bruce Macolm, Mike Deyhle, Devier Posey, La Salle, 3:22.1h, 2008
High Jump- Ryan Fitzpatrick, Moeller, 6’10-0”, 1998
Pole Vault- Tim Roa, Elder, 15’10-0”, 2003
Long Jump- Tim Bell, La Salle, 23-’4½”, 2013
Shot Put- Dave Foley Roger Bacon 62’-1½”, 1965
Discus- Chandler Burden, La Salle, 180’-4-0”, 2008
 
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Below is the link to the league records list, according to the GCL-S website.. There are some obvious discrepancies, but I'm not sufficiently motivated to dig into this yet.

I can't see a single track record listed correctly on the GCLS web site. You can't take manual times and add a zero. Some people use an arbitrary conversion factor of 0.24 to convert a manual time to a fully automatic time. Thus Posey's 21.7 manual is not 21.70 but somewhere around 21.94 fat. I am 100% against tampering with any time to convert it from yards to meters and from manual to FAT and call it a record. A record has to be an exact time without any estimated conversion. I deleted the ending 0s and put in an "h" to signify that it was manually timed.
 
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Deleting those trailing 0s is only the tip of the iceberg.
Murray's 10.5 has to be replaced by Young's superior 10.66,
The 4 x 800 relay time of La Salle of 7:51:31 in 2011 is obviously superior to St. Xavier's 7:53.27.
The time of St. Xavier 1:30.13 has to be replaced by La Salle's 1:29.66 in the 4 X 200 relay in 2012
The listed time of St. Xavier at 3:23.00 has to be replaced by La Salle's manual time of 3:22.1 from 2008 in the 4 x 400 relay.
CJ's time of 42.60 in the 4 x 100 relay replaced by St. Xavier's 42.25
Ochs' time of 39.16 fat in 2010 is superior to the listed record of 39.1 in the 300h
Stifel's time of 9:13.10 fat blows away Rischmann's time of 9:24.3 in the 3200
 
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Newton's Third

Active member
Padgett's 4:16.0 is replaced by Vitucci's 4:16.41.
This is the only one I do not understand. Is FAT on a 4 lap race worth nearly half a second? Following what you said about other races, wouldn't Paggett still be listed as the record holder with (HT) following the 4:16.0? Even with a .24 conversion it seems different than your other examples.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
This is the only one I do not understand. Is FAT on a 4 lap race worth nearly half a second? Following what you said about other races, wouldn't Paggett still be listed as the record holder with (HT) following the 4:16.0? Even with a .24 conversion it seems different than your other examples.
You are correct. I went back and pulled up the 2000 results which is attached herein. I can't believe that Padgett pulled off the 1600, 800, and 3200 triple winning the 1600 and 3200 and getting third in the 800. The important here is that they were timing to the tenth of a second with Padgett's time the only runner ending in 0. He is hereby restored as the record holder. Kyle Schreiner's and Jim Ramstetter's records were set at this meet also even though the meet results don't show Schreiner's 1:54.6 or Ramstetter's 14.2 as New Records (NR).
 

Attachments

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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Lancermania is spot on. He and I have been down this road many times in the past!
This is like Robert Frost's poem, The Road Not Taken. It ends like this. I took the one less traveled by and that has made all the difference. I had a sophomore English teacher that made us memorize a different poem each week. This one has stayed with me all my life.
 
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Newton's Third

Active member
You are correct. I went back and pulled up the 2000 results which is attached herein. I can't believe that Padgett pulled off the 1600, 800, and 3200 triple winning the 1600 and 3200 and getting third in the 800. The important here is that they were timing to the tenth of a second with Padgett's time the only runner ending in 0. He is hereby restored as the record holder. Kyle Schreiner's and Jim Ramstetter's records were set at this meet also even though the meet results don't show Schreiner's 1:54.6 or Ramstetter's 14.2 as New Records (NR).
Those who were in charge of records thought they were doing everyone a favor by adding a zero to hand times to get all marks in the same format.
That is one of the most time consuming fixes. Any mark I see prior to 2000 that ends with 0 at the thousands place I cringe wondering. To this day I hate it when an athlete runs a time ending in 0 at the thousands placing knowing informed people in the future may wonder if it was hand timed or rounded in some way. The work several of you have done is really impressive.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
I keep musing about Foley's throw in the shot put. In 1965, there was only one division which is the justification for restoring Foley's mark in the shot put which is superior to Woebkenberg's put. I believe the North-South split started in 1992.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Those who were in charge of records thought they were doing everyone a favor by adding a zero to hand times to get all marks in the same format.
That is one of the most time consuming fixes. Any mark I see prior to 2000 that ends with 0 at the thousands place I cringe wondering. To this day I hate it when an athlete runs a time ending in 0 at the thousands placing knowing informed people in the future may wonder if it was hand timed or rounded in some way. The work several of you have done is really impressive.
Check out Evan Stifel's time in the 3200. It does end in 0 with the FAT time. That is why I left it on the record board. It is the only one listed as such in the results. That race is copied below.

Boys 3200 Meter Run GCL Varsity
================================================================================
Name Year School Seed Finals Points
================================================================================
1 Stifel, Evan 12 St Xavier 9:30.00 9:13.10 6
2 Vitucci, Michael 11 St Xavier 9:30.00 9:38.46 4
3 Gardner, Adam 12 Elder 9:55.60 9:50.22 3
4 Campbell, Michael 11 LaSalle 9:59.00 9:50.46 2
5 Dewine, Matt 10 Arch Moeller 10:19.92 9:54.01 1
6 Huschart, Michael 11 Elder 10:02.50 9:54.88
7 Wuestefeld, Nick 10 LaSalle 10:32.00 10:28.51
8 Pappalardo, Edward 11 Arch Moeller 10:45.50 10:39.73
 

Newton's Third

Active member
Check out Evan Stifel's time in the 3200. It does end in 0 with the FAT time. That is why I left it on the record board. It is the only one listed as such in the results. That race is copied below.

Boys 3200 Meter Run GCL Varsity
================================================================================
Name Year School Seed Finals Points
================================================================================
1 Stifel, Evan 12 St Xavier 9:30.00 9:13.10 6
2 Vitucci, Michael 11 St Xavier 9:30.00 9:38.46 4
3 Gardner, Adam 12 Elder 9:55.60 9:50.22 3
4 Campbell, Michael 11 LaSalle 9:59.00 9:50.46 2
5 Dewine, Matt 10 Arch Moeller 10:19.92 9:54.01 1
6 Huschart, Michael 11 Elder 10:02.50 9:54.88
7 Wuestefeld, Nick 10 LaSalle 10:32.00 10:28.51
8 Pappalardo, Edward 11 Arch Moeller 10:45.50 10:39.73
When all other times are obviously FAT it is safe to assume it too was FAT. But on a record board, conference records, meet records, and other situations where you don't see the other times from a particular race it can be confusing. And a lot of time and effort to clarify such marks as I'm sure guys like you, Javman, and others understand.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
The title of this thread is GCL records. In 1965, the league was called the GCL. Therefore, Foley's record is restored.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Seek Up once told that hand times of at least 300m up to 800m are rounded up 0.14. Relevant source is here::

Athletic.net/T&F News Conversion: This is the default conversion, widely used around the world and published by Track & Field News. To apply this conversion factor, a hand time is rounded up to the nearest tenth (e.g., 10.83 seconds becomes 10.9 seconds, and 11.77 seconds becomes 11.8 seconds). What happens next depends on the length of the race:
  1. For races under 300 meters: A conversion factor of 0.24 seconds is added to the time.
  2. For races from 300 meters up to (but not including) 800 meters: A conversion factor of 0.14 seconds is added to the time.
  3. For races 800 meters and above: No further conversion factor is added beyond the initial rounding up to the next tenth.

 
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
The National Federation of State high schools (NFHS) makes the conversion easier to remember.

  1. NFHS Conversion: The National Federation of High Schools has a similar conversion to the one above. To apply this conversion factor, a hand time is rounded up to the nearest tenth (e.g., 10.83 seconds becomes 10.9 seconds, and 11.77 seconds becomes 11.8 seconds). After the time is rounded up, the conversion factor is added. For NFHS, all races, regardless of length, have a conversion factor of 0.24 of a second added to the rounded hand time.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
I have issues with the way the field events are marked on the GCL web site. We look to Track & Field News at how they express the fractions of an inch. See Foley's record listed as .50 of an inch on the GCL web site. Use the fractions. For those of you who don't think fractiions can be expressed on a computer, think again. ¼ is not written as .25 nor is ½ writen as .50 likewise ¾ is not writeen as .75


The GCL web site field records end in 00 which is not the way to do it. Only one 0 is used.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
I have issues with the way the field events are marked on the GCL web site. We look to Track & Field News at how they express the fractions of an inch. See Foley's record listed as .50 of an inch on the GCL web site. Use the fractions. For those of you who don't think fractiions can be expressed on a computer, think again. ¼ is not written as .25 nor is ½ writen as .50 likewise ¾ is not writeen as .75


The GCL web site field records end in 00 which is not the way to do it. Only one 0 is used.
Unfortunately, this might be a situation of automated software settings taking control from humans in the presentation of results. This is why I do not allow software to do such. The lists that I create show distances recorded to fractions of an inch: never in decimal form. It has everything to do with the PRECISION of measurement, which in fields events is done to the nearest lower centimeter or 1/4" at shorter distances (typically under 25m), and to the nearest shorter centimeter or nearest lower whole inch at further distances. What happens when those marks are converted to decimal form is that they change the degree of precision to 2 decimal points, i.e., to 0.01", which of course, is not possible in measurement in terms of the ability of humans to accurately record athletic performances with tape measures - not to mention the ability to accurately spot the precise impact point of a jump into the sand or the divot created by an implement or the precise lowest point of a crossbar. Unfortunately, not enough people realize all these factors.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
That's what happened in the running events with manual times. The automated software setting put in that second 0. The only way I know to get around that is to put in "h" so the automated software won't put in that extra 0.
 

Altor

Well-known member
For all the things Hy-Tek software does well, there are a few things about it that make me cringe. It doesn't surprise me that people just copy the marks as they are presented in the results.

Somebody should propose to the OHSAA to measure field events in tournaments to the lesser centimeter. Once this happens, it wouldn't take long before every meet in the state would be measuring in metric. Then we don't have to worry about fractions of an inch.

And yes, add the "h" if you are dealing with MT. It makes it so that there is no question when somebody goes to read results later.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
For all the things Hy-Tek software does well, there are a few things about it that make me cringe. It doesn't surprise me that people just copy the marks as they are presented in the results.

Somebody should propose to the OHSAA to measure field events in tournaments to the lesser centimeter. Once this happens, it wouldn't take long before every meet in the state would be measuring in metric. Then we don't have to worry about fractions of an inch.

And yes, add the "h" if you are dealing with MT. It makes it so that there is no question when somebody goes to read results later.
1980-1981 OHSAA state meets measured in metric for the field events with imperial conversions. Those were the first 2 meets held @ OSU after their track was converted to 400m. That was the last time metric was used for field events, and I suspect because of the centuries-old dependence of the American mindset on imperial measurements. As an engineer myself, I can converse in both fairly fluently. However, try converting your local football field from 100 yards to 91.44 meters and people would look at you like you had 2 heads :)
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Not field events, but weren't the girls 100 hurdles and the boys 300 low hurdles metric while all other running events were still yards?
At the state meet, all events were metric as of 1980. In SW Ohio, there were various combinations of yards & metric depending on the sectional or district (now region). SWOTCCCA has all the research on this history of the now district meets going back to the original in 1923.

At the SW Region meet going back to 1965, Welcome Stadium had a 440 yard track through 1981. In 1982, they were completely metric.
 

Newton's Third

Active member
I was referring to the state meet. You stated '80 for the state meet conversion to all metric. I thought it was '79 because I had a 300 METER hurdler in the prelims in '78 and '79 and remember it being metric. I looked it up and you are right. However, the girls 100 hurdles and boys 300 hurdles are metric in results while all other running events were yards in '78 & '79. I did not look prior to '78. I don't remember why these two events were metric and no others.
 

Altor

Well-known member
I don't remember why these two events were metric and no others.
My bet in both these cases would be because there were already uniform metric measurements at the Olympic levels for the 100 and 400 Hurdles. Why mess that up by converting things to yards when the writing was on the wall that everything was heading to metric anyways.

Using the already established metric measurements in hurdle races makes it easy. No conversion needed:
100H: 13 meters to first hurdle, 8.5 meters between hurdles.
300H/400H: 45 meters to first hurdle, 35 meters between hurdles.

Compare that to the switch from 120yd hurdles to 110meters:
120H: 15 yards to the first hurdle, 10 yards between hurdles
110H: 13.72 meters to the first hurdle, 9.14 meters between hurdles
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
OK - Here's the low-down on the State meet.

Boys
4x800 Meter Relay (1982-present)
120 Yard Hurdles (42") (1908-1935)
120 Yard Hurdles (39") (1936-1979)
110 Meter Hurdles (39") (1980-present)
100 Yard (1908-1979)
100 Meter (1980-present)
4x220 Yard Relay (1929-1978) - Note: There were a couple of 4x220 races run between 1910-1912, but were not scored due to low participation. Race was replaced by the 4x110 yard, then 4x100 meters between 1979-2003 before being reinstated as the 4x200 meter in 2004
4x200 Meter Relay (2004-present)
4x110 Yard Relay (1979 only - never existed before then @ State Meet)
4x100 Meter Relay (1980-present)
Mile (1908-1979)
1600 Meters (1980-present)
440 Yard (1908-1979)
220 Yard Low Hurdles (30") (1908-1935)
200 Yard Low Hurdles (30") (1936-1937)
220 Yard Low Hurdles (30") (1938-1950)
180 Yard Low Hurdles (30") (1951-1977)
300 Meter Low Hurdles (30") (1978-1986)
300 Meter IH (36") (1987-present)
880 Yards (1908-1979)
800 Meters (1980-present)
220 Yards (1908-1979)
200 Meters (1980-present)
2 Miles (1966-1979)
3200 Meters (1980-present)
4x440 Yards (1908-1979) - Event Not Scored until the 1921 meet when the meet split into Class A & B.
4x400 Meters (1980-present)
High Jump (1908-present)
Pole Vault (1908-present)
Long Jump (1908-present)
Shot Put (12 lbs) (1908-present)
Discus Throw (2kg) (1908-1938)
Discus Throw (1.616kg) (1939-present)
Hammer Throw (12 lbs) (1908-1916)
Javelin Throw (800g - wood w/metal tip) (1917-1937)

1908-1920 - Single Class Division
1921-1925 - Classes A (Big) & B (small) established
1926-1928 - Classes A, B, and C (C was a county-based composite of small school athletes of various schools)
1929-1956 - Classes A & B
1957-1970 - Classes A & B renamed AA & A
1971-1989 - 3 Class meet established - Classes AAA, AA, & A
1990 - AAA, AA & A classes renamed to Divisions I, II, III respectively.


Girls
1975
4x800 Meter Relay (1980-present)
80 Yard Low Hurdles (30") (1975-1977)
100 Meter Low Hurdles (30") (1978-1986)
100 Meter Hurdles (33") (1987-present)
100 Yards (1975-1979)
100 Meters (1980-present)
4x220 Yards (1975-1979)
4x200 Meters (1980-present)
880 Yard Medley Relay (1975-1979)
Mile (1975-1979)
1600 Meters (1980-present)
440 Yards (1975-1979)
400 Meters (1980-present)
300 Meter Low Hurdles (30") (1984-present)
880 Yard (1975-1979)
800 Meters (1980-present)
220 Yards (1975-1979)
200 Meters (1980-present)
3200 Meters (1984-present)
4x440 Yard Relay (1975-1979)
4x400 Meter Relay (1980-present)
High Jump (1975-present)
Pole Vault (2002-present)
Long Jump (1975-present)
Shot Put (8 lbs) (1975-1979)
Shot Put (4 kg) (1980-present)
Discus Throw (1 kg) (1975-present)

Girls' Classifications follow the boys starting with the 1975 meet.
 
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Newton's Third

Active member
I am not sure I am making my question clear.....or maybe my reading comprehension is my problem.

Were there ever 100 & 300 meter hurdles run in comparable imperial distances? Was there ever a change from yards to meters in these events? I know boys 110 meter hurdles were once 120 yards. I also know 300 hurdle marks were designed to match college & Olympic 400 meter hurdles when they made the move from 220 & 180 yard hurdles. Were the 100/300 hurdles added as events close enough to the change to metric that there was no need to change them from imperial distances? This is what I am getting from your first sentence and I agree it seems the most logical. Sorry for the confusion and I know I am causing it.

Javman, I posted this prior to seeing your post above. Even I can follow this. Thanks to all for your help.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
The 330 yard low hurdles have been in Ohio...just not at the state meet.

Middletown's all-time great Darin Hill set a national HS record in the 330 lows in 1978 as a sophomore with his 35.6 MT
 
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