Footlocker XC

Rohbino

Well-known member
Great run for Ewert and the Midwest Team. Obviously, back-to-back weeks takes a toll.
I agree about the back-to-back weeks. With the qualifying races like NXR and the regional FL races plus the various state meets, regionals, districts, etc, it's more like back-to-back-to-back-to-back..... It seems like a crazy amount of high level racing compressed into a short amount of time for a lot of these competitors. Ewert did excellent in all races but I would have liked to have seen what she would have done had she chosen only either Nike or Footlocker. Many of the competitors did that. Far more chose one avenue than both avenues.

FWIW, today's girls winner, Zofia Dudek of Michigan, ran last week in Portugal in the U20 Euro Championships. She represented Poland and was 5th overall in a time of 14:22 over 4300 meters.

Today's boys winner, Josh Methner, was 2nd last week at NXR.

The Midwest girls were pretty dominant in the team race besting the Northeast, 24-42. The Midwest boys tied with the Northeast, 43-43, and had to go to the 6th runner for the tie-breaker. There were no Ohio boys running.

The Midwestern runners are often overlooked. As a whole they came into the race with the slowest qualifying times. This often happens as the weather in the Midwest and the Wisconsin FL course seems to be slower than the other regional courses.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
I agree about the back-to-back weeks. With the qualifying races like NXR and the regional FL races plus the various state meets, regionals, districts, etc, it's more like back-to-back-to-back-to-back..... It seems like a crazy amount of high level racing compressed into a short amount of time for a lot of these competitors. Ewert did excellent in all races but I would have liked to have seen what she would have done had she chosen only either Nike or Footlocker. Many of the competitors did that. Far more chose one avenue than both avenues.
Maybe if her and her varsity teammates rested the week of districts she wouldn't had to worry about racing at regional and state meet! ;)😁
 
Rhobino, she did finish 2nd last week to what is being hyped as the next female phenom. Yesterday was just icing on the cake of getting another free vacation to San Diego to showcase herself, not that she needed it with a ride to Arkansas already secured.
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
Rhobino, she did finish 2nd last week to what is being hyped as the next female phenom. Yesterday was just icing on the cake of getting another free vacation to San Diego to showcase herself, not that she needed it with a ride to Arkansas already secured.
I realize that she was second last week. I also commented that she has run very well in all races. I was merely addressing what Javman wrote -
Great run for Ewert and the Midwest Team. Obviously, back-to-back weeks takes a toll.
I thought that yesterday on the uphill on last loop just before the long downhill that Ewert looked a bit spent. Still, though, that doesn't take away from what she has accomplished. I am wondering if, for instance, Taylor did not have the Footlocker qualifier the week prior to NXN, if instead of narrowly losing to Tuohy, she would have been able to beat her. I think there is a reason that most of the athletes choose to do either Nike or FL and not both. It is very taxing to do both. The fact that Ewert did both and did as well as she did is another testament to her abilities.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
I realize that she was second last week. I also commented that she has run very well in all races. I was merely addressing what Javman wrote -


I thought that yesterday on the uphill on last loop just before the long downhill that Ewert looked a bit spent. Still, though, that doesn't take away from what she has accomplished. I am wondering if, for instance, Taylor did not have the Footlocker qualifier the week prior to NXN, if instead of narrowly losing to Tuohy, she would have been able to beat her. I think there is a reason that most of the athletes choose to do either Nike or FL and not both. It is very taxing to do both. The fact that Ewert did both and did as well as she did is another testament to her abilities.
I concur completely. Her humongous aerobic strength relative to the other girls most definitely made her competitive in both races, IMHO. With sub-1:40 20km walk capabilities already proven, she has capacities beyond every other girl. Those in front of her were fresher, and frankly speaking, are just faster in turn over. If the state 3200m track race was 5000m instead, Taylor would easily out-distance her Ohio compatriots.
 
With sub-1:40 20km walk capabilities already proven, she has capacities beyond every other girl.
This does not prove anything. How many of her competitors have racewalked 20K or even beyond 100 meters playing around? My guess is zero. Taylor might be the best by far, average, or below average compared to others. The sample size is so small there is no way to know conclusively one way or the other.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
This does not prove anything. How many of her competitors have racewalked 20K or even beyond 100 meters playing around? My guess is zero. Taylor might be the best by far, average, or below average compared to others. The sample size is so small there is no way to know conclusively one way or the other.
I'll bet the farm on it. I know just how great her 20km walk is. She was #10 junior in the world at the 10km walk as a soph. She has a legit shot at being the #3 American this coming year at the OT's at 20km. Yes, she's that good.
 
Her 20K walk is great but compared to what? The other 80 girls in the nation that compete in the event? She might be the best even if every girl racewalked but to assume she "has capacities better than every other girl" as a runner based on racewalking seems sketchy at best. Since you are Javman to put it in throwing terms if a guy wins the worlds strongest man throwing a 200 pound stone does not mean he "has capacities in the shot put better than every other shot putter".
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
Her 20K walk is great but compared to what? The other 80 girls in the nation that compete in the event? She might be the best even if every girl racewalked but to assume she "has capacities better than every other girl" as a runner based on racewalking seems sketchy at best. Since you are Javman to put it in throwing terms if a guy wins the worlds strongest man throwing a 200 pound stone does not mean he "has capacities in the shot put better than every other shot putter".
I appreciate the analogy. I'm speaking specifically to Ewert's aerobic capacity, which I'd bet heavy money is greater than that of almost any Ohio girl, and almost any other American girl. What she lacks, though, is raw speed. That factor is what allows others to be competitive with her at the relatively short distance of 5 km.
 
You may be right and it is clear she has a high aerobic capacity to be competitive at the top nationally in XC. I agree with the raw speed observation based on the few times I have watched her race. My only contention was that she "has capacities better than every other girl" based on racewalking. For one, it would be tough to think she has capacities better than Touhy who is a 3 time national champ and beat her. Your original claim was "better than EVERY other girl", not ALMOST every other girl. To think she is a better runner than Touhy based on racewalking is flawed.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
You may be right and it is clear she has a high aerobic capacity to be competitive at the top nationally in XC. I agree with the raw speed observation based on the few times I have watched her race. My only contention was that she "has capacities better than every other girl" based on racewalking. For one, it would be tough to think she has capacities better than Touhy who is a 3 time national champ and beat her. Your original claim was "better than EVERY other girl", not ALMOST every other girl. To think she is a better runner than Touhy based on racewalking is flawed.
I agree with what you are saying and will add that if Touhy spent as much time race walking as Ewert she could very well could be faster at that also. We just don't know if other girls at the races the last two weeks are faster race walkers because my guess is not a single other girls in those races ever entered a race walking race.

But to agree with Javman point I believe the long distance race walking has increased her aerobic capacity and the longer the running race the more it would benefit her.
 
But to agree with Javman point I believe the long distance race walking has increased her aerobic capacity and the longer the running race the more it would benefit her.
I do not disagree with this because racewalkers operate far closer to their maximum heart rate for a much longer period of time than runners due to reduced impact. They are similar to cross-country skiiers. On that fact alone it must be a super supplement for running.
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
Switching the topic from the benefits of race walking and how it relates to XC running, I want to discuss Abby Vanderkooi, the 3rd place finisher at Footlocker.

Vanderkooi is currently a sophomore at a high school in Muskegon, Michigan and ran 16:55 yesterday. I don't generally like to discuss times in XC because the sport is about placement much more than times and because times from one course mean noting when compared to times on a different course, but when Vanderkooi was a freshman she was under 17 minutes on three different occasions. This is more times than Katelyn Tuohy was under 17 minutes when she was a freshman.

I have seen Vanderkooi run on three occassions - once when she was a freshman and twice this season. One thing that stands out to me is that she is incredibly inefficient. She expends a lot of energy and has a lot of wasted movement in her upper body. If Vanerkooi works with someone on her form she has the potential to become an even better runner than Tuohy has been. I know how difficult it is to make projections of future success with young female runners due to how body changes being unpredictable, but if Vanderkooi's trajectory is what I think it will be she will eventually become one of the best high school runners ever.
 
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JAVMAN83

Active member
You may be right and it is clear she has a high aerobic capacity to be competitive at the top nationally in XC. I agree with the raw speed observation based on the few times I have watched her race. My only contention was that she "has capacities better than every other girl" based on racewalking. For one, it would be tough to think she has capacities better than Touhy who is a 3 time national champ and beat her. Your original claim was "better than EVERY other girl", not ALMOST every other girl. To think she is a better runner than Touhy based on racewalking is flawed.
I did say "every other girl". You got me there. I was too literal in my statement. Touhy certainly deserves all the credit in the world as I watched the race as well and saw how much she struggled over that last mile. However, she dug in like a true champion does and got it done.

I am curious, though, to see how Tuohy does this coming track season as it was clear to me that her body has changed a bit since her sophomore season when she set the outdoor HS mile mark. She strikes me as an 800/1500m girl with some 400m capabilities, but that is able to run fast 3-milers by using a fast metronome-like effort. Most of the other girls I watched in that race, at least near the front, didn't run like that. I've seen Tuohy race enough on camera to be able to pick her out of a crowd. I'm sure most of us here have that capability as well.
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
I am curious, though, to see how Tuohy does this coming track season as it was clear to me that her body has changed a bit since her sophomore season when she set the outdoor HS mile mark. She strikes me as an 800/1500m girl with some 400m capabilities, but that is able to run fast 3-milers by using a fast metronome-like effort. Most of the other girls I watched in that race, at least near the front, didn't run like that. I've seen Tuohy race enough on camera to be able to pick her out of a crowd. I'm sure most of us here have that capability as well.
Tuohy is going to be just fine. She was criticized by many last week after narrowly winning NXR. It's crazy to criticize someone that won a race because the margin of victory was slim. She is not slowing down at all. It was only 8 to 9 months ago that she was the NY high school indoor champion in the 1500 & 3000. After running 9:15 for 3000 she doubled back a short time later to go 4:24 for the 1500. She had a 16:22 5000 XC effort this past October.

Tuohy's body has changed since her freshman and sophomore years of HS. She is much stronger and more powerful than she used to be. She is religious in following a lifting program geared for strength and practices plyometrics on a regular basis. She has always been more of a power runner and many confuse that power and strength, or what they deem to be a lack of form or fluidity, as a weakness. It is just the opposite. She has tremendous strength as a runner and that strength will serve her well as she moves up to collegiate competition. Her result in the this past weekend's USATF XC championships is a only a small hint of what she will become in college. When Tuohy is a collegiate freshman I expect her to make an immediate impact. Some have said that she may go the pro route upon HS graduation but I don't see that yet.
 
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grange45

Active member
Tuohy is going to be just fine. She was criticized by many last week after narrowly winning NXR. It's crazy to criticize someone that won a race because the margin of victory was slim. She is not slowing down at all. It was only 8 to 9 months ago that she was the NY high school indoor champion in the 1500 & 3000. After running 9:15 for 3000 she doubled back a short time later to go 4:24 for the 1500. She had a 16:22 5000 XC effort this past October.

Tuohy's body has changed since her freshman and sophomore years of HS. She is much stronger and more powerful than she used to be. She is religious in following a lifting program geared for strength and practices plyometrics on a regular basis. She has always been more of a power runner and many confuse that power and strength, or what they deem to be a lack of form or fluidity, as a weakness. It is just the opposite. She has tremendous strength as a runner and that strength will serve her well as she moves up to collegiate competition. Her result in the this past weekend's USATF XC championships is a only a small hint of what she will become in college. When Tuohy is a collegiate freshman I expect her to make an immediate impact. Some have said that she may go the pro route upon HS graduation but I don't see that yet.
Does she have room to grow after high school? Along with Ewert? Both situations seem like they are already being maxed out. I keep thinking of some past runners (prakel and Murphy) from the local area that had great success after high school. Both during high school only put in minimal miles (20-40) with low intensity workouts. They excelled in college becaus they had room to grow.
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
Tuohy to NC State, good decision PsychoDad?
Not speaking for psycho, it's an excellent decision by Tuohy.

The five schools that Tuohy whittled her choices down to were Providence, Villanova, Syracuse, Michigan, and NC State. NC State, obviously, is the only school among those that is in a warmer climate. With Touhy being a native of NY's Hudson Valley, it would be assumed that she liked colder climates but she made no secret of the fact that she prefers warmer weather.

At NC State Tuohy will join Kelsey Chimel. Chimel, a Saratoga Springs, NY native, is a rising sophomore at NC State and was somewhat of a NY HS rival of Tuohy's. Chimel had an excellent freshman XC season and finished 22nd at the NCAA championships in 20:30ish. Also joining Tuohy in the freshman class at NC State will be Jenna Schulz (sp ? Schultz?), Claire Walters, and Marlee Starliper of Pennsylvania. Schulz and Walters were 2nd and 3rd behind Tuohy at the NY State XC HS championships and Starliper ran 16:46 to finish 2nd at Footlocker less than 2 seconds off of Zofia Dudek's pace. This is a huge haul of talent for the Wolfpack. Ohioans at NC State include Turpin's Sam Bush and Lexington's Dominique Clairmonte. Bush just finished up her freshman XC season and Clairmonte will be a senior. Clairmonte has been successful at NC State and was 3rd in the ACC in the 5,000 last track season.

Boardman's Laurie Gomez Henes has built the Wolfpack into a powerhouse. She is a relentless recruiter and excellent coach. Henes is the type of a coach that these young runners need to nurture their talent. It's hard to believe that she has been at NC State for nearly 30 years as an athlete and a coach. Her daughter, Elly, is a senior and up to this point in her career has been an All-American seven times. She has an indoor and outdoor season of track eligibility remaining at NC State.

Does she have room to grow after high school? Along with Ewert? Both situations seem like they are already being maxed out. I keep thinking of some past runners (prakel and Murphy) from the local area that had great success after high school. Both during high school only put in minimal miles (20-40) with low intensity workouts. They excelled in college becaus they had room to grow.
Yes, I do believe that Touhy has room to grow after HS. Her going to NC State is a step in the right direction. Given Touhy's pedigree there will be high expectations of her in college. I believe that Henes, being a high level female runner herself at one point in her career, will have reasonable expectations and is well aware of the difficulties, along with the usual peaks and valleys, that high level runners face. Ewert is also going into a good situation at Arkansas. Both definitely have a lot of room for improvement and methinks both will be very successful over the next ten or so years. Multiple appearances in World Championships and/or the Olympics by both Tuohy and Ewert will not surprise me at all.

As an aside, I would also add Mick Stanovsek to Prakel and Murphy as examples of Ohio runners that went on to grow even more during college.
 
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psycho_dad

Well-known member
Tuohy to NC State, good decision PsychoDad?
I would say so, depending on her major. Solid coaching staff that has been together for years. Odds are, she will make it with a team to nationals each year if that's important to her. (And I think it would be) They have had many All-Americans and can handle anything thrown at them. They seem more than proven to me. My daughter and all other Woodridge kids that have gone there have loved it.
 
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