First Set of Rankings for the 2023-24 Season - July 26

D1: 132 has sanderfer ranked #1. He’s good but no way he does 132. He couldn’t even make that weight at the end of last year. Hes better off at 144 If he wants to wrestle in march.
 
SPGT said:
Tucker has never lost to King, Huhn won on a fluke in pool play at GIT, which Tucker ultimately ended up winning his Freshman year when Rosslei beat Huhn in the semis and Tucker beat Rosselli 7-1 in the finals. I know its difficult but you have a guy that is undefeated in his high school career in the month of march I would say he gets the nod, but hey its your show you call it like you see it
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I don't think Boro claimed Tucker ever lost to King, I believe he was alluding to the fact that common opponents was his reasoning for why he ranked them where he did (King beat Huhn who beat Tucker). Interesting take on the Huhn/Tucker match though calling it a fluke? Looking back at the match it seems to have been a very competitive match, between two really good kids (both made the state finals that year) that Huhn ended up winning. Good thing for Tucker though was the way that tournament was set up he was able to bounce back and still win the tournament over a very tough Rosselli in the finals (5-1).

Rankings are what they are, mainly one person's opinion based on a specific set of information they are using to support their case for why they ranked someone higher than another (in this case it was mainly based on common opponents) albeit weird because it was from 2 years ago, but at the end of the day does it really matter? No, no it doesn't.
 
Sanderfer will start the season at 132.

I think Boro's updated Eds lineup makes better sense. Miller boys are growing which really creates a log jame 175-HVY.

Highest ranked wrestler is Goldberg #9 at 144. I agree with that placement, I am hoping he's made strides since cracking the starting lineup as a freshman 2 years ago. (5th place finish at districts if I recall.)
 
Hokie99 said:
Sanderfer will start the season at 132.

I think Boro's updated Eds lineup makes better sense. Miller boys are growing which really creates a log jame 175-HVY.

Highest ranked wrestler is Goldberg #9 at 144. I agree with that placement, I am hoping he's made strides since cracking the starting lineup as a freshman 2 years ago. (5th place finish at districts if I recall.)
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I believe Sanderfer wrestled off season events at 138 this year. He struggled heavily making 126 and did not make weigh outs at states according to other forums. I see him at 44 since kade is at 38. Goldberg is great and all but he is not even a state qualifier and got beat out by last year for a spot.
 
wrestlfan said:
so happy to see the freshman we have been on duals teams and competed with and against make their way into the rankings as freshman.
so happy to see.
thanks for including them
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Let me preface my question with the following disclaimers:
  • I understand that rankings in July don't really mean anything
  • I understand that all will be sorted out over the course of a long season
  • I don't have any interest nor expertise in doing my own rankings
  • I understand that rankings are an imperfect science at best, and particularly ranking light & heavy weights.
  • I appreciate BoroFan and all the work he puts into this thankless job...
...... like every year, there are some very talented freshman coming up that will make their mark this season. Super studs like G. Burnett aside, I'm curious how past Junior High success is weighted relative to more recent HS success? Scanning the list, I see more than a few freshman (JH OAC placers) ranked higher than HS SQ's and State placers placers from last year. Shouldn't proven success at the HS level trump potential and JH success?

For example:
  • D1 120 for example has '23 4th and 5th state placers (& Fargo AA), behind 2 freshman (albeit stud freshman).
  • What's the justification for Mazur @ #2 D1 106? He's absolutely a good little wrestler, but objectively has a small body of work at the varsity level to date and no recent national level results to speak of. Is it simply the aura of Green & Gold singlet?
Also curious how very recent State, Regional and National FS/GR performance is factored in if at all relative to last years results?

For example:
  • D1, 106, I see a handful of upper classmen (SQ, SP, district 5th,) that had nice runs @ Fargo behind a 96lb JH OAC champ w/ apparently no spring results.
  • How do we objectively compare a very talented 88lb Freshman Fargo champ to a Senior SQ who went 4-2 at Fargo at 113?
  • How do we make sense of D2, 106, '23 district 6th place ahead '23 SQ and GR Fargo finalist and '23 SQ who went 14-3 at FS National duals?
  • D1, 220 Fargo FS finalist & bronze 3rd and '23 3rd place @220, behind '23 5th place (Eds) w/ no spring results. Again maybe it's as simple as the Green & Gold singlet.
That's all, thanks again Boro, appreciate getting the discussion started.
 
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LucMurphy134 said:
Let me preface my question with the following disclaimers:
  • I understand that rankings in July don't really mean anything
  • I understand that all will be sorted out over the course of a long season
  • I don't have any interest nor expertise in doing my own rankings
  • I understand that rankings are an imperfect science at best, and particularly ranking light & heavy weights.
  • I appreciate BoroFan and all the work he puts into this thankless job...
...... like every year, there are some very talented freshman coming up that will make their mark this season. Super studs like G. Burnett aside, I'm curious how past Junior High success is weighted relative to more recent HS success? Scanning the list, I see more than a few freshman (JH OAC placers) ranked higher than HS SQ's and State placers placers from last year. For example, D1 120, '23 4th and 5th state place (& Fargo AA), behind 2 freshman (albeit stud freshman). Shouldn't proven success at the HS level trump potential and JH success?

Also curious how very recent State, Regional and National FS/GR performance is factored in if at all relative to last years results?

For example:
  • D1, 106, I see a handful of upper classmen (SQ, SP, district 5th,) that had nice runs @ Fargo behind a 96lb JH OAC champ w/ apparently no spring results.
  • How do we compare a talented 88lb Freshman Fargo champ to a Senior SQ who went 4-2 at Fargo at 113?
  • D2, 106, '23 district 6th place ahead '23 SQ and GR Fargo finalist and '23 SQ who went 14-3 at FS National duals?
  • D1, 220 Fargo FS finalist & GR 3rd behind and '23 3rd place, behind '23 5th place (Eds) w/ no spring results.
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Common opponents and previous head-to-head results are the biggest key (especially for guys moving up a few weights or down a weight and incoming freshmen). Freestyle results do factor in, but I don’t penalize someone because they play other sports and don’t wrestle all year round. My evaluation process for preseason rankings has been the same for 10+ years, some may disagree with it and it's obviously not 100% accurate, but I’m not going to change it now.
 
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LucMurphy134 said:
Let me preface my question with the following disclaimers:
  • I understand that rankings in July don't really mean anything
  • I understand that all will be sorted out over the course of a long season
  • I don't have any interest nor expertise in doing my own rankings
  • I understand that rankings are an imperfect science at best, and particularly ranking light & heavy weights.
  • I appreciate BoroFan and all the work he puts into this thankless job...
...... like every year, there are some very talented freshman coming up that will make their mark this season. Super studs like G. Burnett aside, I'm curious how past Junior High success is weighted relative to more recent HS success? Scanning the list, I see more than a few freshman (JH OAC placers) ranked higher than HS SQ's and State placers placers from last year. For example, D1 120, '23 4th and 5th state place (& Fargo AA), behind 2 freshman (albeit stud freshman). Shouldn't proven success at the HS level trump potential and JH success?

Also curious how very recent State, Regional and National FS/GR performance is factored in if at all relative to last years results?

For example:
  • D1, 106, I see a handful of upper classmen (SQ, SP, district 5th,) that had nice runs @ Fargo behind a 96lb JH OAC champ w/ apparently no spring results.
  • How do we compare a talented 88lb Freshman Fargo champ to a Senior SQ who went 4-2 at Fargo at 113?
  • D2, 106, '23 district 6th place ahead '23 SQ and GR Fargo finalist and '23 SQ who went 14-3 at FS National duals?
  • D1, 220 Fargo FS finalist & GR 3rd behind and '23 3rd place, behind '23 5th place (Eds) w/ no spring results.
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Good points made for sure, I see they moved Carter Truckovich to 106, that’s a freshman that I think will make some noise at D2 106 if he can make the weight but didn’t he go 113 at Fargo? Also bronco Bran at 106 could shake things up but didn’t he miss weight at 108+2 for oac state tournament back in March? Nile Abul should do really good things at 113 bearing he can make the weight also, he’ll be huge! I just don’t know how these kids are going to make those weights.
 
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Boro Fan said:
Updated - www.borofanohio.net

D1: 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285
D2: 106, 113, 120, 126, 144, 150, 165
D3: 150

I received another projected lineup for St. Ed's from a pretty solid source, so I ran with it for now but this could change again soon.
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Not a huge deal because they're certainly #1 and #2 but why Wilson over Joy?
 
dion said:
Not a huge deal because they're certainly #1 and #2 but why Wilson over Joy?
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This was a tough one, but with Joy jumping up a few weights, I decided to stick with how I have them ranked in the 2024 class rankings. I have heard from a couple solid sources that Joy gets the better of Wilson at practice/open mats, but I heard the same regarding Wilson/Herman last year and they ended up splitting matches.
 
Shot reshot said:
Good points made for sure, I see they moved Carter Truckovich to 106, that’s a freshman that I think will make some noise at D2 106 if he can make the weight but didn’t he go 113 at Fargo? Also bronco Bran at 106 could shake things up but didn’t he miss weight at 108+2 for oac state tournament back in March? Nile Abul should do really good things at 113 bearing he can make the weight also, he’ll be huge! I just don’t know how these kids are going to make those weights.
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I was a little weary moving Trukovich, but I was told he would likely be at 106 from someone very close to him. This would also allow Carsten Branstetter a chance to crack the lineup (it sounds like he is way too big for 106 and likely wouldn't have beaten Alberty for the 120 spot either).

I didn't know Braun missed weight at the JH state tournament. I was told Abbuhl will be at 113 and Braun will likely try to make 106. I will probably move Braun to 120 for now based on this info.
 
Boro Fan said:
Common opponents and previous head-to-head results are the biggest key (especially for guys moving up a few weights or down a weight and incoming freshmen). Freestyle results do factor in, but I don’t penalize someone because they play other sports and don’t wrestle all year round. My evaluation process for preseason rankings has been the same for 10+ years, some may disagree with it and it's obviously not 100% accurate, but I’m not going to change it now.
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Not asking you to change anything. All my respect to your process, just trying to understand. That said, I get not penalizing kids that play other sports, but IMHO a certain about of respect is owed to guys who do put time in the off season, put themselves out there and have success at the national level.
 
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Hokie99 said:
Sanderfer will start the season at 132.

I think Boro's updated Eds lineup makes better sense. Miller boys are growing which really creates a log jame 175-HVY.

Highest ranked wrestler is Goldberg #9 at 144. I agree with that placement, I am hoping he's made strides since cracking the starting lineup as a freshman 2 years ago. (5th place finish at districts if I recall.)
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I think we will see Manns at 126, Butler at 132, Brown at 138, Sanderfer at 144, Bennett 150, Eaton 157, Miller, Miller, Peterson, Slaper, etc.
 
Huge said:
I think we will see Manns at 126, Butler at 132, Brown at 138, Sanderfer at 144, Bennett 150, Eaton 157, Miller, Miller, Peterson, Slaper, etc.
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That's a possible line up if some other things happen. O'Brien will be in the line up.
 
Updated - www.borofanohio.net

D1: 126, 132, 144, 157
D2: 106, 113, 120, 126, 190, 285
D3: None

New update, new lineup for Ed's. If I shift the Ed's lineup again, it will likely be the final one until the fall (everyone close to the program seems to have a slightly different view of how things will play out). I am strongly considering just going with their best maximized lineup until preseason tournaments and football season are in full swing.
 
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DevilDude said:
How does one redshirt in Ivy League? I thought that was not allowed unless due to injury.
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DevilDude said:
How does one redshirt in Ivy League? I thought that was not allowed unless due to injury.
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A quick look at the roster and they don’t have rock stars at 157 so he could go direct if he gets big enough and they think he is ready.
Otherwise, Technically it’s grayshirting…you delay enrollment until second semester and operate out of the RTC.
 
dion said:
Not a huge deal because they're certainly #1 and #2 but why Wilson over Joy?
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If I’m not mistaken, you shared similar predictions with Earnest over Birden all last year. It sounds to me that you have a Wadsworth bias over Dublin!
 
Updated - www.borofanohio.net

Sorry, I forgot to post this right after the update.

D1: 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190
D2: 126, 132
D3: None

This is the Ed's lineup I will stick with for awhile. I basically went with their best lineup based on rankings (Yes, I know Sanderfer making/holding 132 will be difficult).


Thanks to whoever has been clicking (y)
 
Boro Fan said:
Updated - www.borofanohio.net

Sorry, I forgot to post this right after the update.

D1: 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190
D2: 126, 132
D3: None

This is the Ed's lineup I will stick with for awhile. I basically went with their best lineup based on rankings (Yes, I know Sanderfer making/holding 132 will be difficult).


Thanks to whoever has been clicking (y)
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No way D1 132 5 and 6 should b ranked higher than 7,8,9,10. #9 is 2x placer and #8 and #9 1x time placer and #10 has way more quality wins.
 
Hornet23 said:
No way D1 132 5 and 6 should b ranked higher than 7,8,9,10. #9 is 2x placer and #8 and #9 1x time placer and #10 has way more quality wins.
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Nice first post dad. Welcome to yappi.

132 – TIED FOR SECOND DEEPEST WEIGHT (TOP 25)
1. Joseph Sanderfer (St. Edward) Junior
2. Phoenix Contos (Toledo Waite) Junior
3. Cole Evans (Perrysburg) Senior
4. Robert Davis (Stow-Munroe Falls) Senior
5. Jovanni Greco (Hamilton Ross) Senior
6. Nate Dulcie (Massillon Perry) Senior
7. Jack DeBoe (Mentor) Junior
8. Salvatore Palmisano (Mayfield) Senior
9. Jack Dinwiddie (Wadsworth) Junior
10. John Campbell (Walsh Jesuit) Senior
11. Marshall Morency (Cincinnati Anderson) Sophomore
12. Sebastian Vega (LaSalle) Senior
13. Jared Johnston (Moeller) Senior
14. Andrew Myers (Upper Arlington) Senior
15. Joey Thamman (Elder) Junior
16. Bryce Sears (Colerain) Senior
17. Colton Bendure (Mason) Junior

Fantastic weight class. That's the fun part of the rankings. Everyone gets a chance to prove it. #14 Andrew Myers is a former placer as well. Tough weight. Right or wrong (its his opinion) and i am sure he has evidence to back up his rankings. Don't get too uptight about it.
 
mailman112 said:
That's a possible line up if some other things happen. O'Brien will be in the line up.
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I wouldn't pencil Butler in at 126, he's been BIG for the weight class the past 2 years and really didn't benefit him much last year to cut to 120. The problem is he's not beating Brown (s) and doubtful he beats Sanderfer. They're going to have an issue with state placers getting in the line up IMHO. Karson brown will likely move up a couple weights soon also, and Manns has a lot of potential to sneak in the lineup as well. They're still the team to beat, and likely will be at least for the next 2 years.
 
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