Elmwood to join BVC

BGSUGrad

Member
Dont think that will happen anytime too soon. Personally I feel Leipsic is a very good fit with the NWC, geographically and competitively
I’ll be honest, what does that mean? Their average drive is now further and while top to bottom the NWC might be better the top of the BVC is better in most sports. So, really it seems like a wash. The move never really made sense to me as they seemed to be trading a solid small league for a solid small school league.
 

BirdDog10

Well-known member
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. But, does adm. of two of those schools have the guts to make it happen? I say no. Maybe Leipsic will wake up and return. We will see. They really didnt want to leave. They wanted CR, Vanlue, and not sure of number three- maybe four to leave. The movement in and out of the BVC could of happened, but Leipsic was not smart enough to lead in the proper manner to get it done. Leipsic bluffed, the league called, and the adm said oh sh#t we said we were going to leave. They made the move to the Nwc. Just my opinion.
If the league would have done something about CR and Vanlue and adding larger members 3 years ago, Leipsic wouldn't have left. They waited until there was an almost sure chance that CR and Vanlue won't be able to field 11 man football teams anymore, so Leipsic left and burnt bridges with the BVC on their way out. I can't confirm if it was true or not but even 3 years ago already I heard that Leipsic was looking for an invite to the NWC.
 

adog

Well-known member
What will the NWC do if Leipsic indeed returns to the BVC?
Dont think that will happen anytime too soon. Personally I feel Leipsic is a very good fit with the NWC, geographically and competitively
I’ll be honest, what does that mean? Their average drive is now further and while top to bottom the NWC might be better the top of the BVC is better in most sports. So, really it seems like a wash. The move never really made sense to me as they seemed to be trading a solid small league for a solid small school league.
No hidden meaning in it at all. Yes the average drive time in BVC may be shorter, but overall the drives in the NWC are not that bad at all. 45 miles to the furthest opponent. Competitively they match up well with the schools in the NWC as they did in the BVC. I do think they will see bigger gate receipts (once all this covid stuff is lifted) which is a plus. And I say this not knowing just how well the BVC travels but do know the NWC usually travels very well
 

BirdDog10

Well-known member
I’ll be honest, what does that mean? Their average drive is now further and while top to bottom the NWC might be better the top of the BVC is better in most sports. So, really it seems like a wash. The move never really made sense to me as they seemed to be trading a solid small league for a solid small school league.
Only Liberty Benton is traditionally better in most sports. Just like the NWC, the top BVC football schools are cyclical, they will have several good years followed by a rough stretch, rebuild, and repeat. Even LB has lost some of their shine in football in recent years. Remove LB from the league and you would have an incredibly tough time proving that the BVC is traditionally better than the NWC in ANY sport, including football.
 

FastTimes

New member
BVC is fading quickly. LB would be smart to find a new league, but it would be hard for them to find a fit. If Defiance would leave possibly the WBL would be a good choice, if they can continue to grow in regards to enrollment.
 

BGSUGrad

Member
Arguing league strength is a no win situation. But, I would say there are several schools in the BVC with state championships outside of LB. Heck McComb has as many football state champions as the whole NWC combined (feel free to correct me if wrong, I could only find then Grove and Bluffton titles)
As far as kicking out members, neither Vanlue or CR has ever cancelled a varsity football game so it’s a little hard to justify kicking out founding members.
Maybe Leipsic will get some higher gates, which they can then spend on the fuel to drive to the away games, still seems like a wash.
 

*67

Well-known member
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. But, does adm. of two of those schools have the guts to make it happen? I say no. Maybe Leipsic will wake up and return. We will see. They really didnt want to leave. They wanted CR, Vanlue, and not sure of number three- maybe four to leave. The movement in and out of the BVC could of happened, but Leipsic was not smart enough to lead in the proper manner to get it done. Leipsic bluffed, the league called, and the adm said oh sh#t we said we were going to leave. They made the move to the Nwc. Just my opinion.
Leipsic wanted out. They want stability. They want to know their opponent is going to show up on Friday. And the BVC doesn't give them that any more. Everyone knows Vanlue, Arcadia, and Cory-Rawson are just ticking time bombs, and no one is doing anything about it. So they bailed, and they're going to stay in the NWC.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
Leipsic wanted out. They want stability. They want to know their opponent is going to show up on Friday. And the BVC doesn't give them that any more. Everyone knows Vanlue, Arcadia, and Cory-Rawson are just ticking time bombs, and no one is doing anything about it. So they bailed, and they're going to stay in the NWC.
Ada cancelled more games in 2020 than any of those 3 have ever.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
And the NWC was twice as proactive about it as the BVC has been.
Were they? Did they penalize them? Kick them out? Do anything at all? No. The bottom 4 moved a game around between themselves, and Paulding and Jefferson lucked into the GMC having 7 teams and a team with a bye.

They literally did the same thing as the BVC, except this was AFTER a team cancelled games.

NWC also dealt with the USV and Perry problem bavk in the day the same way. Sit back, do nothing, let them cancel entire seasons (USV) and leave everyone in a bind.

At least the BVC is expanding so when the inevitable happens they still have a league. Effectiveky kicked Hardin Northern out as soon as they cancelled a season instead of letting them come back just to cancel again.


Had the NWC been proactive and treated Ada the way the BVC treated HN....Ada would be out. Probably headed to the NWCC.

So no, the NWC hasn't been proactive at all. Hope the problem goes away and react when it goes wrong has been their way for 20 years.
 

BirdDog10

Well-known member
Were they? Did they penalize them? Kick them out? Do anything at all? No. The bottom 4 moved a game around between themselves, and Paulding and Jefferson lucked into the GMC having 7 teams and a team with a bye.

They literally did the same thing as the BVC, except this was AFTER a team cancelled games.

NWC also dealt with the USV and Perry problem bavk in the day the same way. Sit back, do nothing, let them cancel entire seasons (USV) and leave everyone in a bind.

At least the BVC is expanding so when the inevitable happens they still have a league. Effectiveky kicked Hardin Northern out as soon as they cancelled a season instead of letting them come back just to cancel again.


Had the NWC been proactive and treated Ada the way the BVC treated HN....Ada would be out. Probably headed to the NWCC.

So no, the NWC hasn't been proactive at all. Hope the problem goes away and react when it goes wrong has been their way for 20 years.
They are not at all the same situation. In just 2017 Ada was still at the top of the conference and on the tail end of a 12 year stretch with only 1 time missing the playoffs. They dropped off rapidly, but still had close to 30 kids on their roster at the start of the 2020 season. Bad coaching and a bad culture led over half of those 30 kids to either get injured and not want to return, or quit entirely. That is not at all the same situation as having Vanlue go winless in the league for the last 10 years, and having 2 league teams that already cannot play 11 man Jr. High football. Ada still puts out numbers in their youth and JH programs, their high school program however blew it in the last 3 years. That regime is gone, and now they have a proven head coach to rebuild their program and committed to playing a full varsity schedule in 2021 at a school with significantly larger numbers than CR and Vanlue.
 

LimaJock

Member
Dont think that will happen anytime too soon. Personally I feel Leipsic is a very good fit with the NWC, geographically and competitively

No hidden meaning in it at all. Yes the average drive time in BVC may be shorter, but overall the drives in the NWC are not that bad at all. 45 miles to the furthest opponent. Competitively they match up well with the schools in the NWC as they did in the BVC. I do think they will see bigger gate receipts (once all this covid stuff is lifted) which is a plus. And I say this not knowing just how well the BVC travels but do know the NWC usually travels very well
As the BVC adds bigger schools ( I donot think they are done adding schools if those they want will join), the league should rival any 5-6-7 league, except of course the MAC.
 

BGSUGrad

Member
Perhaps I am a softy, but but when you are talking about kicking out founding members of a league it better have some substance. CR is struggling with numbers now, but in 02 and 03 they made the playoffs and won games. (This was awhile again, but it shows with the right coach they can be winners and there were less division then so the playoffs were harder to make)
Plus currently CR is tied atop the boys basketball standings. So, while the decisions are mostly related to football, if a school can be competitive in other sports it seems “unfair” to give them the boot.
 

FastTimes

New member
Arguing league strength is a no win situation. But, I would say there are several schools in the BVC with state championships outside of LB. Heck McComb has as many football state champions as the whole NWC combined (feel free to correct me if wrong, I could only find then Grove and Bluffton titles)
As far as kicking out members, neither Vanlue or CR has ever cancelled a varsity football game so it’s a little hard to justify kicking out founding members.
Maybe Leipsic will get some higher gates, which they can then spend on the fuel to drive to the away games, still seems like a wash.
CR cancelled this year with PG, the week of the playoffs.
 

LimaJock

Member
If the league would have done something about CR and Vanlue and adding larger members 3 years ago, Leipsic wouldn't have left. They waited until there was an almost sure chance that CR and Vanlue won't be able to field 11 man football teams anymore, so Leipsic left and burnt bridges with the BVC on their way out. I can't confirm if it was true or not but even 3 years ago already I heard that Leipsic was looking for an invite to the NWC.
Maybe caught bridge on fire, but do not think burned to the point of no repair.
 

LimaJock

Member
They are not at all the same situation. In just 2017 Ada was still at the top of the conference and on the tail end of a 12 year stretch with only 1 time missing the playoffs. They dropped off rapidly, but still had close to 30 kids on their roster at the start of the 2020 season. Bad coaching and a bad culture led over half of those 30 kids to either get injured and not want to return, or quit entirely. That is not at all the same situation as having Vanlue go winless in the league for the last 10 years, and having 2 league teams that already cannot play 11 man Jr. High football. Ada still puts out numbers in their youth and JH programs, their high school program however blew it in the last 3 years. That regime is gone, and now they have a proven head coach to rebuild their program and committed to playing a full varsity schedule in 2021 at a school with significantly larger numbers than CR and Vanlue.
Ada needs to join the BVC, I think it would be a great fit! In fact, lets just say it. Ada, CG, and Bluffton all join BVC. Leipsic comes back. Add in Patrick Henry. What a great league that would be.
 
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LimaJock

Member
OKAY, BVC, let's go big:

14 Teams or 12??? teams, 2 Divisions.

OH Division: LB 338, Elmwood 279, VB 267, CG 234, Bluffton 248, Allen East 265, Need one more?
IO Division: McComb 170, Leipsic 145, Arlington 141, PG 117, Arcadia 146, PH 210, Ada 212

Some amount of crossover and non league depending on how many teams there actually is that sign on. This league, with the expanded playoff situation, may have 6-7 teams each year in the playoffs. This would rival any 5-6-7 conference in Ohio, except one.
 
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*67

Well-known member
Were they? Did they penalize them? Kick them out? Do anything at all? No. The bottom 4 moved a game around between themselves, and Paulding and Jefferson lucked into the GMC having 7 teams and a team with a bye.

They literally did the same thing as the BVC, except this was AFTER a team cancelled games.

NWC also dealt with the USV and Perry problem bavk in the day the same way. Sit back, do nothing, let them cancel entire seasons (USV) and leave everyone in a bind.

At least the BVC is expanding so when the inevitable happens they still have a league. Effectiveky kicked Hardin Northern out as soon as they cancelled a season instead of letting them come back just to cancel again.


Had the NWC been proactive and treated Ada the way the BVC treated HN....Ada would be out. Probably headed to the NWCC.

So no, the NWC hasn't been proactive at all. Hope the problem goes away and react when it goes wrong has been their way for 20 years.
But they're not expanding. They're replacing a team that left explicitly because they weren't sure their JV or even their junior high teams would be able to play games because other teams were canceling on them.

Yes, the NWC was more proactive than the BVC was. Ada absolutely could have finished the season. But the NWC said "no, don't make this a mockery". Which is way more proactive than the BVC is doing. If the BVC was preventative, Cory-Rawson, Arcadia, and Vanlue would be in the Northern 8 Conference for football as of yesterday. But they're not. They are setting themselves up for issues, and they know it.
 

BGSUGrad

Member
Arcadia has a winning record the last 2 seasons going 10-8, they hardly need to be kicked out.
Vanlue clearly needs to invest in 8 man sure, but CR is not that far below the enrollment of other schools, they need to get their numbers up and hopefully their new coaching hire can.
I guess the idea of removing members or jumping leagues over a few missed JV football games and some 7th grade girls basketball seems silly.
Either league (BVC or NWC) has shown they will prepare teams for post lesson success. The only issue you might have is Harbin points in football, but with 12 teams getting in now, it’s hardly a problem.
 

LimaJock

Member
Leipsic wanted out. They want stability. They want to know their opponent is going to show up on Friday. And the BVC doesn't give them that any more. Everyone knows Vanlue, Arcadia, and Cory-Rawson are just ticking time bombs, and no one is doing anything about it. So they bailed, and they're going to stay in the NWC.
Not so sure Arcadia is an issue, North Baltimore is more unstable in my opinion. Arcadia has won 5 or 6 games the last two years and I heard numbers are in thirty's.
 

LimaJock

Member
Arcadia has a winning record the last 2 seasons going 10-8, they hardly need to be kicked out.
Vanlue clearly needs to invest in 8 man sure, but CR is not that far below the enrollment of other schools, they need to get their numbers up and hopefully their new coaching hire can.
I guess the idea of removing members or jumping leagues over a few missed JV football games and some 7th grade girls basketball seems silly.
Either league (BVC or NWC) has shown they will prepare teams for post lesson success. The only issue you might have is Harbin points in football, but with 12 teams getting in now, it’s hardly a problem.
How exactly does CR get their numbers up when around 30 boys play soccer each year?
 

LimaJock

Member
But they're not expanding. They're replacing a team that left explicitly because they weren't sure their JV or even their junior high teams would be able to play games because other teams were canceling on them.

Yes, the NWC was more proactive than the BVC was. Ada absolutely could have finished the season. But the NWC said "no, don't make this a mockery". Which is way more proactive than the BVC is doing. If the BVC was preventative, Cory-Rawson, Arcadia, and Vanlue would be in the Northern 8 Conference for football as of yesterday. But they're not. They are setting themselves up for issues, and they know it.
How do you know that? I have heard they would like to add teams.
 

BirdDog10

Well-known member
Ada needs to join the BVC, I think it would be a great fit! In fact, lets just say it. Ada, CG, and Bluffton all join BVC. Leipsic comes back. Add in Patrick Henry. What a great league that would be.
That will never, ever happen
 

BGSUGrad

Member
That will never, ever happen
Probably true, BUT Ada was offered once and thought about it
PH might need a home if the NWOAL falls apart, if that is the case Leipsic would have to be kicking themselves for jumping.
So really a number of these schools could be looking for an option that works well for them.
 

BirdDog10

Well-known member
But they're not expanding. They're replacing a team that left explicitly because they weren't sure their JV or even their junior high teams would be able to play games because other teams were canceling on them.
Leipsic's decision has to do with more than football too. There's no NWC schools unable to fill JV squads for boys and girls basketball and volleyball, the NWC across the board has better facilities for all sports than 90% of the BVC, and on average the NWC has larger, therefore typically more stable schools. Plus I can't imagine that they will miss playing LB every year when LB is more than twice the size of Leipsic with some of the best athletes from Findlay in every sport.

The BVC will remain a very solid league. I think it would benefit every member if CR and Vanlue are dropped as members for football only and either scrap the programs or try out 8 man. Drop those 2 for football, add Elmwood for all sports, and you've got a solid league, but that still is not going to bring Leipsic back. They're out the door, and already playing NWC schedules in every sport in the 2021-2022 school year
 
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