Division VII State Championship: Maria Stein Marion Local (15-0) vs. Newark Catholic (14-1)
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Captain_Cavman
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In Tims 23 coaching years at Marion, there have only been 2 classes that have not been part of a championship team, the seniors of the 1999 team, and the seniors of the 2005 team. 21 classes have gotten at least 1 ring!
George S. Patton
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Congrats to Marion Local
Stirred not Shaken
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Great game by ML offense and defense. 16 - 0 MAC Champs, State Champs, great job sr. class.
nc_green_wave
Member
Disagree. NC won 7 state titles under JD Graham and only have won 1 state title in the last 30 years since his retirement after the 1991 season. He was the difference. NC is still a good program but not a great one and not anywhere close to being on the level that MSML is on.
Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Graham was getting better players, heck some even played in the NFL. The last time they got to the finals, their QB went on to play at Illinois? correct? Not saying coaching doesn't matter, it does, just like after Jacoby left DeSales, DeSales wasn't as good, and Jacoby didn't have the same success either. Gotta have talent. There just isn't the same amount of talent available to NC now.
StateChampion2012
MAC Homer
Yes
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I get where yesterday may feel like a blow, as its a community with a remarkable standard that was unquestionably hungry for #9.
At the end of the day, I know NC people would still rather be NC than anyone else. It's a genuinely special school-community with an unrivaled tradition that extends across its thousands of alumni (young and old), the hundreds of current parents/students, its dedicated stewards at the front of the classrooms -- all of which are bound together by its core principles and shared understanding that everything is accomplished through hard work & faith.
There is no other place like 1GWD. To some extent it has many common denominators that the MAC communities have (the Church as a centerpiece of the community, the standards in the classroom*playing field*in public; the level of community robustness, the accomplishments across many activities.) There are some limitations to that application (e.g. recent football titles vs what ML/other MAC have won; susceptibility to waxing/waning periods and what those periods of waning measure up to compared to what constitutes a "down" year for most of the MAC brass.) The flipside to that is even with those limitations in mind, NC accomplishes a ton and has withstood the rising tide of seemingly unbeatable odds (enrollment/the generational decline in playing football) that swept up many of its exurban, small-Catholic peers across the state from 2007-onward. It's a place that is idolized and widely-respected from their peers at the statewide Catholic conferences; a tradition and standard on everything that is known across Ohio. It's still a good day to be NC, as always.
At the end of the day, I know NC people would still rather be NC than anyone else. It's a genuinely special school-community with an unrivaled tradition that extends across its thousands of alumni (young and old), the hundreds of current parents/students, its dedicated stewards at the front of the classrooms -- all of which are bound together by its core principles and shared understanding that everything is accomplished through hard work & faith.
There is no other place like 1GWD. To some extent it has many common denominators that the MAC communities have (the Church as a centerpiece of the community, the standards in the classroom*playing field*in public; the level of community robustness, the accomplishments across many activities.) There are some limitations to that application (e.g. recent football titles vs what ML/other MAC have won; susceptibility to waxing/waning periods and what those periods of waning measure up to compared to what constitutes a "down" year for most of the MAC brass.) The flipside to that is even with those limitations in mind, NC accomplishes a ton and has withstood the rising tide of seemingly unbeatable odds (enrollment/the generational decline in playing football) that swept up many of its exurban, small-Catholic peers across the state from 2007-onward. It's a place that is idolized and widely-respected from their peers at the statewide Catholic conferences; a tradition and standard on everything that is known across Ohio. It's still a good day to be NC, as always.
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Congrats to ML.
Of all the games, this was the only stinker. All the other games were competitive and entertaining no matter who won. More like the championship games that they should be. Overall teams won their way there and showed good abilities be it O or D. Hats off to all.
Of all the games, this was the only stinker. All the other games were competitive and entertaining no matter who won. More like the championship games that they should be. Overall teams won their way there and showed good abilities be it O or D. Hats off to all.
NC wisely attempted to stop the running game but in the process played too much man coverage. It was like taking candy from a baby in the first quarter. NC got out of the man coverage and settled down some but the running game threat resulted in open gaps between the short linebacker drops and the depth of the secondary. TE's played heavily into the equation and if the defensive end didn't hold them up briefly no one else laid a glove on them fairly often.
Captain_Cavman
Well-known member
Were else can you go 0 - 10 and make the playoffs. ?True. You have to be better than a lot more teams to win the title in D7 than you do in D1.
D1 is like the kiddie division with only 71 teams
Woah. Be careful, I don’t think that Koop aid your drinking is kool aid.
R1 alone, there are 8 teams ML would have beaten and 4 more they could have been competitive with. Only Iggy, Eds, Medina, and McK would have beaten them solidly.
Sorry. I meant crack not kool aid.
Canton GlenOak? Lorain? Look at who they lost to during the regular season.
No need to explain. Out of all divisions ML would be the 5th best team in Ohio. Lol.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Don't know about top about top 5 but I would say top 20. It really amazes me the lack of the ability of so many teams in Ohio unable to throw a forward pass at the H.S. level. This was Otte's 1st full year at QB and his passing improved greatly as the season progressed as did the receivers who were all new starters this season. I would say Otte was the 3rd best passing QB at Canton and add his running ability to the mix I would say he was the 2nd best QB at Canton - Smoot being the best.
Funny thing is that the 7th division was added to cater to the smaller D1's... Who now can't deal with Hoban... Who should technically be in Division III if not for "competitive balance." Meanwhile, the extra division has only allowed the MAC to flex their muscles vs. the rest of the state. Their main competition has been Kirtland, but kudos to Carey for breaking through and winning their first state title in 46 years.
I live right around the corner from Warren JFK. I remember people trying to knock their state title five years ago because they're a "small school," but I told those haters that JFK beating a program the caliber of Minster is a huge accomplishment. The whole "private school advatage" thing, which I hate refering to (to be the best, you have to beat the best), go completely out of the window when dealing with the MAC/Kirtland. It's probably just as hard for smaller communities to play catch up to those two than it is for large schools to compete in D1. Those programs are winning game off the field.
4GX
Well-known member
That's one way to look at it-- the wrong way-- kind of like the Chinese Communist Party's take on why THEY are the model for democracy in the world-- but whatever-- you're entitled to your opinion.True. You have to be better than a lot more teams to win the title in D7 than you do in D1.
D1 is like the kiddie division with only 71 teams
Always trying to move down the competitive ladder, to find a place where you can dominate is NOT the way the real world works-- in the real world, if you think you are better than every one else, you go where the biggest, best, toughest competition is, to try to prove yourself there-- that's why investment bankers try to get to NYC (and work for Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley)-- not stay in Cleveland, Ohio and work for Key Bank or PNC. ("New York, New York-- if I can make it there, I can make it ANYWHERE!"-- Frank Sinatra)
That's why EVERY non-"Power Five" Division I college fielding a football team is trying to find a way into the "Power Five" conference, to try to play with the big boys-- and why the most successful coaches are constantly trying to move up to the richest, most advantaged schools, to get the biggest salaries and to try to win a championship with the team with most advantages and resources (which is how/why a Notre Dame coach is now leaving for LSU-- which most people would have thought virtually impossible, 10, 20, 30 years ago-- and why Luke Fickell, despite being a dyed-in-the-wool Buckeye, is NOT long for Ohio or Cincinnati, once his team loses this year).
Conversely, you don't see ANY schools (administrators or alumni) clamoring to move down to Division II or Division III NCAA football-- and certainly, no players or coaches are trying to do it-- they ALL want to see how HIGH they can move on the competitive ladder, if they are successful at a lower level-- because that's where the biggest rewards, accolades, and recognition is.
MSML is capable of winning Ohio state titles at Division 6, 5 (as this year's results prove), and probably 4, or 3-- not trying for it just puts an artificial ceiling on the challenges that MSML's players take on (and learn from)-- that's fine, if that's your thing (like putting a tree that could grow to over 50' tall in a small pot, to contain it)-- but it's not the way to gain the most from your athletic experience-- and it's sure not going to get the biggest acclaim, from the broader world--which fully understands how open competition works-- and ladles the biggest acclaim and rewards on those who compete in the open competition against the best.
Almost nobody knows (or cares) who wins the NCAA Division II, or III football championships (Ohioans sometimes do, especially if they live in Northeast Ohio, because of Mt. Union-- but most of the rest of the country could NOT care less.)
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4GX
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This is nowhere near accurate-- there are (at least) 6 teams in Southwest Ohio alone (X, Lakota West, Moeller, Elder, Winton Woods, LaSalle) who would ALL wax MSML.
4GX
Well-known member
Move up-- next year.
4GX
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I'd like the OHSAA to:
1) Go back to (no more than) 4 divisions;
2) Allow teams that wish to "Compete up" in division (which, for example, Ms. Washington has expressed a desire to do) to do exactly that.
3) Move teams up (involuntarily, if need be) that win two consecutive state championships, to the next higher division.
I realize the rules don't necessarily provide for this right now-- I'm talking about what an idealized competitive situation would offer.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Well, none of this is realistically going to happen. Why don't the lower division schools be more Marion Local like. New Bremen not too long ago could barely field a team of more than 35 to 40 players now they have plus 60. Also, you won't find any overweight kids on ML's starting roster nor on any of the top MAC programs. If these schools can't figure out how to accomplish this, ask New Bremen how they did it.
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