Division III Poll Voting Discussion (Final)

simkon

Well-known member
Division III
1. Chardon
2. Canfield
3. Streetsboro
4. Archbishop Alter
5. New Philadelphia
6. Bishop Hartley
7. Badin
8. Bellbrook
9. Jonathan Alder
10. Sheridan
11. Saint Vincent-Saint Mary
12. Dover
13. Aurora
14. St. Francis DeSales
15. West Holmes
 
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simkon

Well-known member
How do you have St Francis 7 spots below a team they beat twice
Region 11 is a mess...
DeSales lost to Watterson and Watterson lost to Hartley twice
they also lost to Sheridan and DeSales the first time
Hartley beat Watterson both times without going to OT
Hartley also beat Tri-Valley
the only good team DeSales has beat has been Hartley and they barely won both games and that loss to Watterson looks really bad after their loss to Sheridan
If DeSales easily handles Jonathan Alder next week they will be easily in the top 10, somewhere right around Hartley
I also thought Hartley had a respectable showing against Moeller who is better than their 2-6 record would indicate.
 

LS92

Well-known member
Handy data for your final voting:

D3Final.png
In CSV format below:

Region,Seed,School,Wins,Losses,Notable1,Notable2,Notable3
R9,1,Chardon,8,0,>Riverside35-7,>Mayfield35-14,>Geneva57-13
R9,4,New Philadelphia,7,1,>WestHolmes37-15,>Aurora38-17,>Steubenville31-0
R9,3,Canfield,8,0,>NewPhil31-24,>SVSM14-6,>Howland23-0
R9,2,Streetsboro,8,0,>Cloverleaf49-28,>NilesMcKinley41-6,
,,,,,,,
R10,1,Tiffin Columbian,7,1,>Revere28-21,>Norwalk48-20,
R10,12,West Holmes,7,2,>Ashland35-14,>Cloverleaf38-21,>PadFran20-22
R10,6,Holy Name,6,1,>BowlingGreen24-21,>RockyRiver34-0,>RiverValley44-6
R10,2,Ashland,7,1,>Norwalk21-7,,
,,,,,,,
R11,1,St Francis,6,1,>Granville56-28,>Hartley24-21,>Hartley16-14
R11,4,Jonathan Alder,8,0,>London30-13,>London14-0,
R11,3,Sheridan,8,0,>Tri-Valley33-0,>ColumbusSouth27-0,>Watterson28-20
R11,2,Bishop Hartley,5,3,>Tri-Valley34-14,>WestBrown65-14,>Watterson42-32
,,,,,,,
R12,1,Bellbrook,8,0,>StMarysMem44-14,,
R12,5,Ross,7,1,>Edgewood63-35,>NewRichmond48-12,
R12,6,Alter,6,2,>Trotwood42-0,>Dunbar35-13,
R12,2,Badin,7,0,>Ross41-7,>Alter14-12,>Tippecanoe35-14
,,,,,,,
,"Notable games are wins only, over above .500 D3 and larger schools, or teams still in the D3 playoffs.",,,,,,
,Others recently receiving votes or ranked,,,,,,
,,,,,,,
R9,6,StVincent-StMary,5,3,>MapleHts35-8,>WestGeauga48-6,
R12,3,Trotwood-Madison,4,1,>None,,
 

simkon

Well-known member
Handy data for your final voting:
.........
,"Notable games are wins only, over above .500 D3 and larger schools, or teams still in the D3 playoffs.",,,,,,
Howland in all honesty is likely the least notable win for Canfield
Howland (5-4) 23-0 (Max Preps #28)
Notre Dame-Cathedral Latin (4-4) 34-7 (Max Preps #26)
New Philadelphia (7-1) 31-24 (Max preps #4)
Dover (4-5) 31-10 (Max Preps #18)
Chaney (3-5) 35-19 (Max Preps #27)
Boardman (4-4) 35-7 (Max Preps #30 D-II)
Kenston (3-4) 28-10 (Max Preps #31)
St Vincent-St Mary (5-3) 14-6 (Max preps #8)
All Rankings are in D-III, except for Boardman
 

LS92

Well-known member
Howland in all honesty is likely the least notable win for Canfield
Howland (5-4) 23-0 (Max Preps #28)
Notre Dame-Cathedral Latin (4-4) 34-7 (Max Preps #26)
New Philadelphia (7-1) 31-24 (Max preps #4)
Dover (4-5) 31-10 (Max Preps #18)
Chaney (3-5) 35-19 (Max Preps #27)
Boardman (4-4) 35-7 (Max Preps #30 D-II)
Kenston (3-4) 28-10 (Max Preps #31)
St Vincent-St Mary (5-3) 14-6 (Max preps #8)
All Rankings are in D-III, except for Boardman
When picking notable games, I went by (1) Division of opponent, (2) Win-Loss record of opponent, (3) margin of victory of the win. I honestly am not familiar with most of the D3 schools, so I gathered the data in as impartial a manner as I could. The one thing you can say for sure is that I have no bias about any team outside of R12, as I just don't know them.

I trust your view is more informed than mine, I just applied a simplistic algorithm to this. Best of luck.
 

simkon

Well-known member
When picking notable games, I went by (1) Division of opponent, (2) Win-Loss record of opponent, (3) margin of victory of the win. I honestly am not familiar with most of the D3 schools, so I gathered the data in as impartial a manner as I could. The one thing you can say for sure is that I have no bias about any team outside of R12, as I just don't know them.

I trust your view is more informed than mine, I just applied a simplistic algorithm to this. Best of luck.
No worries, I appreciate that you take the time to compile everything just the same.
 

speedthatkills

Active member
When picking notable games, I went by (1) Division of opponent, (2) Win-Loss record of opponent, (3) margin of victory of the win. I honestly am not familiar with most of the D3 schools, so I gathered the data in as impartial a manner as I could. The one thing you can say for sure is that I have no bias about any team outside of R12, as I just don't know them.

I trust your view is more informed than mine, I just applied a simplistic algorithm to this. Best of luck.
The only honest man on Yappi. Everyone else has all the answers lol
 
So confused. Desales beat Hartley twice but Hartley is better based on other games. So Desales really lost those games to Hartley in your opinion.
Head to head no longer counts.
 

simkon

Well-known member
Bad case of the Only-Knows-NEO disease. Everybody else is just a name.
I lived in Reynoldsburg for a couple years and then I moved to Valleyview over by North Hilltop near the railroad tracks. And then I lived in Worthington for a year right off of Hard Road near Sawmill pretty close to Kilbourne High School. So I am actually familiar with Columbus area schools. And the reason I have DeSales below Hartley is because DeSales lost to a rather pedestrian Watterson team and nearly lost to them a 2nd time. Hartley won without needing overtime both games against Watterson. And I have actually seen Watterson, Hartley and DeSales all play in person, not this year obviously. I am definitely familiar with all 3 teams, especially considering they were in the same region as my alma matter for many years.
 

simkon

Well-known member
So confused. Desales beat Hartley twice but Hartley is better based on other games. So Desales really lost those games to Hartley in your opinion.
Head to head no longer counts.
As I said that region is a mess because all the Columbus parochial schools played each other twice. DeSales loss to Watterson is worse than Hartley losing to DeSales twice. I ranked the teams partly on past performance and partly on expected future performance and partly on sheer talent.
So let me ask you this what do you think of Watterson this year? They beat DeSales so by your reasoning they should be ahead of DeSales right?
 
For once Desales is better than Hartley especially since they beat them twice and that's why there the 1 seed. It doesn't matter though cause they aren't playing each other. Good luck to both teams. Going to be fun to watch. All 4 teams are good
 

Bad Blake

Active member
For once Desales is better than Hartley especially since they beat them twice and that's why there the 1 seed. It doesn't matter though cause they aren't playing each other. Good luck to both teams. Going to be fun to watch. All 4 teams are good
It doesn’t matter that they beat them twice. Other scores of common opponents are a better indicator of who is better than 2 actual games between the two teams. Duh
 

simkon

Well-known member
For me when I rank teams, just because a team beats another team head to head does not necessarily mean I will rank that team higher. Sometimes team A would beat team B 99 times out of 100, but it happens to be the one time where the stars align for team B to win and everything falls their way. Lets say team A has beat Mentor, St. Edward, St. Ignatius, Colerain, St. Xavier, Archbishop Hoban, Archbishop Moeller, Pickerington Central, and Lakota West this year but lost to team B. Team B has lost to Cory-Rawson, Vanlue, Crestline, Moral Ridgedale, Bucyrus, Bradford, Mississinawa Valley, Dayton Northridge, and Twin Valley South.
Which team would you say is better? Team B because it beat team A head to head? Or team A who defeated 9 very good teams but had everything that could possibly go wrong, go wrong against team B to make them lose.
Granted this is an exaggerated hypothetical scenario, but this is the same process that I used to arrive at the rankings above.
Rankings are not an exact science, they are very subjective and there is no right or wrong answer, each guy can have his own opinion on who is better.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
Hartley losing to DeSales twice
What has Hartley changed on defense to stop Quinn, Thompson, Pentello? What has DeSales lost on defense or Hartley gained on offense to enable Hartley to score more? Without an intelligent answer to those questions, there's no reason to expect a different outcome. Turnovers maybe.
 

simkon

Well-known member
What has Hartley changed on defense to stop Quinn, Thompson, Pentello? What has DeSales lost on defense or Hartley gained on offense to enable Hartley to score more? Without an intelligent answer to those questions, there's no reason to expect a different outcome. Turnovers maybe.
In my opinion, Hartley played pretty sloppy both games against DeSales and DeSales did not have a good showing either game vs Watterson who is not that good this year.
If Hartley can play a cleaner game and not turn the ball over as much, I think they beat DeSales by one or two scores. They lost by one score or less both times, the games could have easily gone the other way.
In my opinion if Hartley and DeSales played 10 times, I think Hartley wins 7 times.
Right now I have given Hartley the benefit of the doubt ranking them where I did, I nearly had them at 11.
Regardless I am pretty confident whoever takes region 9 wins the championship, especially considering Trotwood is out, and a certain region litterally has no chance to be perfectly honest.
 

simkon

Well-known member
Not this season. I'm a homer, and I'd say 3 tops. DeSales defense is great. If a rematch is played, I'll be happy with Hartley winning 1 time out of 3.
Why did DeSales have so much trouble with Watterson this year? They lost once and nearly lost twice to them. Just curious of your explanation. Conversely Hartley won more easily both games against Watterson.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
Why did DeSales have so much trouble with Watterson this year?
Because they're teenagers. Watterson and DeSales is a long-running rivalry. They always play up against DeSales. And Watterson was a very good team this year. Sheridan caught a break when Nickleson hobbled out in the third quarter. Hartley didn't win easily in either game against Watterson. They were evenly matched. Hartley scored late in the 4th quarter of the first game to go ahead, and the defense held. It went down to the wire. Hartley caught Watterson coaches napping in the second game with the deep pass for TD on 4th down and then the recovered onside kick. Hartley parents and coaches were all sweating Hoying getting the ball back. Other than Chucks, all the CCL matchups could have gone either way.
 

TCSoup

Active member
In my opinion, Hartley played pretty sloppy both games against DeSales and DeSales did not have a good showing either game vs Watterson who is not that good this year.
If Hartley can play a cleaner game and not turn the ball over as much, I think they beat DeSales by one or two scores. They lost by one score or less both times, the games could have easily gone the other way.
In my opinion if Hartley and DeSales played 10 times, I think Hartley wins 7 times.
Right now I have given Hartley the benefit of the doubt ranking them where I did, I nearly had them at 11.
Regardless I am pretty confident whoever takes region 9 wins the championship, especially considering Trotwood is out, and a certain region litterally has no chance to be perfectly honest.
Last week you claimed you knew nothing about those teams other than their schedules. This week you claim you lived in Columbus and are very familiar with them. But haven't seen one of any of the teams games.
If you lived anywhere near here at any time You know the history of the DeSales / Watterson Rivalry and of the fierce rivalry amongst the CCL Teams in General beating Watterson twice in a year would have been great, but DeSales did play its worst CCL game of the year that night. They had control of the game and a 7 point swing on a TO turned the game. . So i watched both Hartley / Desales games and you claim Hartley was sloppy , but you haven't seen them. The last game between the 2 Teams there was probably less than 5 Penalties between them and Hartley didn't have a turnover. LOL
I think you either have a axe to grind or just ignorant of Columbus Area FB. Or just like to start controversy which is fine.
Fact is rating them 14th says more about your knowledge than others responding on here.
And i know its a new and crazy year and at this point in any Division or Region One Team can beat another. No doubt. And I'm not discounting any Team in D3 at all.
But your rating doesn't take into account the History of their program.
DeSales is 17-2 versus Sheridan, Canfield, Badin , JA and Kettering Alter over the years . With both losses coming to K.A who they have 11 Wins over also.
 

simkon

Well-known member
Last week you claimed you knew nothing about those teams other than their schedules. This week you claim you lived in Columbus and are very familiar with them. But haven't seen one of any of the teams games.
If you lived anywhere near here at any time You know the history of the DeSales / Watterson Rivalry and of the fierce rivalry amongst the CCL Teams in General beating Watterson twice in a year would have been great, but DeSales did play its worst CCL game of the year that night. They had control of the game and a 7 point swing on a TO turned the game. . So i watched both Hartley / Desales games and you claim Hartley was sloppy , but you haven't seen them. The last game between the 2 Teams there was probably less than 5 Penalties between them and Hartley didn't have a turnover. LOL
I think you either have a axe to grind or just ignorant of Columbus Area FB. Or just like to start controversy which is fine.
Fact is rating them 14th says more about your knowledge than others responding on here.
And i know its a new and crazy year and at this point in any Division or Region One Team can beat another. No doubt. And I'm not discounting any Team in D3 at all.
But your rating doesn't take into account the History of their program.
DeSales is 17-2 versus Sheridan, Canfield, Badin , JA and Kettering Alter over the years . With both losses coming to K.A who they have 11 Wins over also.
I haven't seen anyone play in person this year. I have watched portions of a bunch of games live streaming, on tape delay, but haven't seen many games in full. Last week I hadn't watched any video of any of the Columbus area parochial schools against one another, I have since watched portions of a few of the games. And by sloppy play I meant poor tackling and execution, not necessarily penalties or turnovers specifically. The only action I saw previous to this week was a bit of Hartley's week 1 game I think it was.

Incidentially, everyone else was ranking Trotwood-Madsion in the top 5 and they got blown out by Alter. I had them unranked and perhaps rightly so.

Whatever a team did 15 to 20 years ago doesn't matter for rankings, what they did last year might matter if they still have most of the same personnel.

I can't watch every game from beginning to end for every relevant team.

Frankly at the moment DeSales and Hartley both are unproven and I don't think either of them will win the state championship this year. But if they should happen to win state then I will issue an apology to you and the other supporters on here for misjudging them.
 

Hawkcaulker9

Active member
For DeSales, I’m assuming Pentello is still out. That kid is a playmaker, it’s in his genes. The second Hartley game in my estimation was closer because of the nervousness of the back up and the lack of run threat. If #2 played it wouldn’t have been close. The two Stallion backs are a load for anyone to contend with. This Hartley team is not a typical Hartley team, the D is very suspect. They give up a lot of big plays, lack of reads, poor tackling, not great coverage in the secondary. Hopefully they can get things tightened up before facing a good Sheridan team Friday.
 

YtownJohnny

Active member
Because they're teenagers. Watterson and DeSales is a long-running rivalry. They always play up against DeSales. And Watterson was a very good team this year. Sheridan caught a break when Nickleson hobbled out in the third quarter. Hartley didn't win easily in either game against Watterson. They were evenly matched. Hartley scored late in the 4th quarter of the first game to go ahead, and the defense held. It went down to the wire. Hartley caught Watterson coaches napping in the second game with the deep pass for TD on 4th down and then the recovered onside kick. Hartley parents and coaches were all sweating Hoying getting the ball back. Other than Chucks, all the CCL matchups could have gone either way.
But Chucks are smarter than all the other teams.
 

TCSoup

Active member
For DeSales, I’m assuming Pentello is still out. That kid is a playmaker, it’s in his genes. The second Hartley game in my estimation was closer because of the nervousness of the back up and the lack of run threat. If #2 played it wouldn’t have been close. The two Stallion backs are a load for anyone to contend with. This Hartley team is not a typical Hartley team, the D is very suspect. They give up a lot of big plays, lack of reads, poor tackling, not great coverage in the secondary. Hopefully they can get things tightened up before facing a good Sheridan team Friday.
Pentello is back , but last week only played in a DB role. Which was the most pressing area for him to return.

I think it will be extremely difficult for DeSales to come out on top 3 times in any one year versus the Hawks.
Hartley is very very well Coached , Doesn't make stupid plays, Have a lot of Penalties and rarely Turns the Ball over. Put all those factors together plus the Linebacker who is a absolute beast and they can beat anyone on any given Friday night.

With that said both teams have very stout opponents this week and both could very easily have their seasons ended. I believe Sheridan knocked Hartley out last year and DeSales doesn't have the Defense they have had in the past. I don't look for either Jonathan Alder or Sheridan to beat themselves this week . Both Teams will have to play their best games of the seasons for a 3rd rematch.
 

Hawkcaulker9

Active member
Pentello is back , but last week only played in a DB role. Which was the most pressing area for him to return.

I think it will be extremely difficult for DeSales to come out on top 3 times in any one year versus the Hawks.
Hartley is very very well Coached , Doesn't make stupid plays, Have a lot of Penalties and rarely Turns the Ball over. Put all those factors together plus the Linebacker who is a absolute beast and they can beat anyone on any given Friday night.

With that said both teams have very stout opponents this week and both could very easily have their seasons ended. I believe Sheridan knocked Hartley out last year and DeSales doesn't have the Defense they have had in the past. I don't look for either Jonathan Alder or Sheridan to beat themselves this week . Both Teams will have to play their best games of the seasons for a 3rd rematch.
We lost to Trotwood in the state semifinals last year, this will be the first time Hartley and Sheridan have met. We have played other MVL teams but not the Red Rage from Thornville. I agree TC this time of the year crazy as it has been you don’t bring the A game your lacing up the sneakers. Should be a great weekend of football! Hopefully the dreaded “C***d” doesn’t ruin anymore kids run at a championship
GO HAWKS!!
 
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