District Brackets are posted

I know we have a lot of traditionalists on here but true fourth would allow people to accept a lopsided district. I also understand their point of view especially when you have a chance to win a team title or take a runner up finish.
 
Look people I am not a participant award parent. The fact is that Ohio is one of the top 5 states for wrestling in the country. To make it up to state is an awesome accomplishment. Not everyone can win or will ever place but I can't tell you how many proud kids I have seen that announce they are a SQ. People that is a good thing and well earned. For some the one chance they have is their senior year and we all know the draw can be a bear. Often times the 4th best wrestler does not make it out of the district because of it. A true really makes sense to assure that. Will the 4th place finisher place at state probably not but they should have the chance to experience it. I'm even a fan of it at sectionals.

As if that is not enough stupidity for some I am also a fan of allowing backup wrestlers from teams that have a kid with certain criteria, like a winning percentage of 70% at the varsity level with a minimum of say 15 matches to fill up empty spots at sectionals.
 
bearcatrunner said:
Look people I am not a participant award parent. The fact is that Ohio is one of the top 5 states for wrestling in the country. To make it up to state is an awesome accomplishment. Not everyone can win or will ever place but I can't tell you how many proud kids I have seen that announce they are a SQ. People that is a good thing and well earned. For some the one chance they have is their senior year and we all know the draw can be a bear. Often times the 4th best wrestler does not make it out of the district because of it. A true really makes sense to assure that. Will the 4th place finisher place at state probably not but they should have the chance to experience it. I'm even a fan of it at sectionals.

As if that is not enough stupidity for some I am also a fan of allowing backup wrestlers from teams that have a kid with certain criteria, like a winning percentage of 70% at the varsity level with a minimum of say 15 matches to fill up empty spots at sectionals.
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i generally agree about the true fourth, but the argument for true fourth is to avoid a situation where the “truly 4th best wrestler” had to beat #1 or #2 in the go-to match bc they were on same half and one has to drop down.

but just to play devils advocate, what about that kid that is ranked 5th, 6th, 7th (at that district) that wrestles the best match of his life and beats #1/#2 in the go-to match to earna trip to state...oh wait, now he has to beat #3/4/5/6 whatever to make it bc that kid took 5th (and lost to a lower ranked kid in his go-to match).

you can spin a situation anyway you want, but in my example a kid who pulled a major upset to get to 3/4 match, prob spent all his energy winning the match of his life, now has to win again to go to state. Wouldn’t that be unfair to him if he lost?

goes both ways.

Either leave it the way it is or just qualify all top 5, would make the current go-to match less”unfair” bc you aren’t SOL if you catch the 1/2 and would make the 5/6 match awfully exciting instead of a sidebar of who gets to hope someone doesn’t make weight
 
Coach Root said:
I have never been a fan of placing 8 at State. I prefer the old days of top 6... but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I could handle qualifying 5 and placing 8... but I don't see the folks at the OHSAA changing things...
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I don't necessarily mind it, but I think it's worth pointing out to all the folks here that Illinois - arguably more of a FS/GR state but still very good in Folkstyle and has more participants than Ohio - still places only the top 6 at State.

And if people still think draws are rough in Ohio, here is some recent history on the Illinois state series (regionals, sectionals, state):
  • Up until a few years ago they were still doing a follow the leader format where you only got to wrestle back at state if the guy that beat you makes the semis. They used to do this at sectionals, too, which means if the guy that beat you didn't make the finals you didn't even get a chance to wrestle back and qualify for state! Their separation format was similar to ours, so if the top two guys were on the same side at sectionals or same quarter at state, someone was SOL.
  • Through 2008 they only had 2 classes, with the small schools qualifying 12 to state and the big schools qualifying 24. Top 3 at regionals qualified for sectionals, and top 3 at sectionals qualified for state. In 2009 they switched to 3 classes, with the small schools qualifying 12 and the medium and large schools qualifying 16. In 2012 they upped the small school state brackets to 16. Basically, up until 2012 they had fewer state qualifiers than we do. As of 2020 top 3 at regionals qualify for sectionals and top 4 at sectionals qualify for state. The third place matches were always intense when qualification was on the line.
  • Worst of all, in my opinion, was "walkovers" which were in place at regionals and state through 2008 (the situation wasn't possible at sectionals due to the size and follow the leader format). Walkovers meant that if two wrestlers met in the consis and they had already met on the championship side, the previous result stood and the match was not wrestled! At State it often happened in the consi semis, but at regionals there was the potential for it to happen in the third place match - i.e. the go-to match! I once saw a returning state placer lose by defensive pin (the ref was very generous in warning him before he finally called the fall), and then had the same opponent in the 3rd place match and as a result his season was over!
Long story short, things could be worse!
 
I like it the way it is. This may be a whole different topic, but some sports are more difficult , in my opinion, to qualify for the state event. For example tennis and golf. In tennis you have to make it to the semis. They are single elimination and there are only two divisions with a doubles tournament and singles tournament. Only top 4 place.
 
Coach Root said:
I am also a firm believer that the 5 match rule is a joke...
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I agree. Does anyone know why 5 matches was chosen as the threshhold? I mean, if TPTB back whenever this choice was made would have decided 6 matches, would we be complaining that the limit should be 7? 8? No limit???
 
Maybe 5 matches as the tipping point (along with a 45-minute wait between matches) came from a top-secret statistical algorithm to assess risk conducted by a team of sports scientists, orthopaedic physicians and an insurance underwriter person?
 
cruiser_96 said:
I agree. Does anyone know why 5 matches was chosen as the threshhold? I mean, if TPTB back whenever this choice was made would have decided 6 matches, would we be complaining that the limit should be 7? 8? No limit???
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In the 80's, the daily match limit was 4, with a minimum 60 minutes between matches. That meant that sectionals, and even 16-man follow-the-leader format tourneys were two days. So 5 matches / 45 minutes is an improvement (believe it or not!). But in answer to your question, I have no idea why they stopped at 5, and/or have never considered further extension.

As people have pointed out many times, the theoretical maximum mat-time for 5 matches would (in reality) pretty much never be approached if the match limit were extended to 6. And guys wrestle more than 5 in off-season tourneys anyway. Silly to keep the limit at 5 these days.
 
The 5 match rule and the 45 minute rest rule is based truly on science. Just don't ask for the scientific proof.
 
MitSulHer said:
Totally agree with you on this. Just an insurance move I guess. In my son's youth days it was "Nice win, now you get an even tougher guy and you're up in 10 mins. Go get a drink and report back".
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I had a young man by the name of Joe Dixon wrestle for me back in the panther wrestling club days of 2006ish... We were at a tournament and things were winding down and Joe still had a few matches... I remember him wrestling a match and pinning his opponent; we told him to stay on the mat and sent out his next opponent. Miss those days.
 
FirestoneFan said:
I remember being called to a mat while I was wrestling.
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If I had to guess, I'd bet it was at a FS/GR tournament. With the old vertical pairing system, guys sometimes got 10+ matches per style at Fargo, and once you got to the later rounds the matches were closer and closer together. I remember seeing a guy finish a match, make his way back to the bleachers, slump in his seat from exhaustion, only to be called to the mat seconds later. He ended up placing second, but he looked so mentally defeated when they called his name that quickly.
 
Well, a 2 seed from Batavia Sectionals is out so a 5 seed from Clinton Massie (Ross) was put in. The 5 seed beat the 3 seed he wrestled first round.
 
UsedToBe103 said:
I don't necessarily mind it, but I think it's worth pointing out to all the folks here that Illinois - arguably more of a FS/GR state but still very good in Folkstyle and has more participants than Ohio - still places only the top 6 at State.

And if people still think draws are rough in Ohio, here is some recent history on the Illinois state series (regionals, sectionals, state):
  • Up until a few years ago they were still doing a follow the leader format where you only got to wrestle back at state if the guy that beat you makes the semis. They used to do this at sectionals, too, which means if the guy that beat you didn't make the finals you didn't even get a chance to wrestle back and qualify for state! Their separation format was similar to ours, so if the top two guys were on the same side at sectionals or same quarter at state, someone was SOL.
  • Through 2008 they only had 2 classes, with the small schools qualifying 12 to state and the big schools qualifying 24. Top 3 at regionals qualified for sectionals, and top 3 at sectionals qualified for state. In 2009 they switched to 3 classes, with the small schools qualifying 12 and the medium and large schools qualifying 16. In 2012 they upped the small school state brackets to 16. Basically, up until 2012 they had fewer state qualifiers than we do. As of 2020 top 3 at regionals qualify for sectionals and top 4 at sectionals qualify for state. The third place matches were always intense when qualification was on the line.
  • Worst of all, in my opinion, was "walkovers" which were in place at regionals and state through 2008 (the situation wasn't possible at sectionals due to the size and follow the leader format). Walkovers meant that if two wrestlers met in the consis and they had already met on the championship side, the previous result stood and the match was not wrestled! At State it often happened in the consi semis, but at regionals there was the potential for it to happen in the third place match - i.e. the go-to match! I once saw a returning state placer lose by defensive pin (the ref was very generous in warning him before he finally called the fall), and then had the same opponent in the 3rd place match and as a result his season was over!
Long story short, things could be worse!
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What part of Illinois are you from?
 
UsedToBe103 said:
If I had to guess, I'd bet it was at a FS/GR tournament. With the old vertical pairing system, guys sometimes got 10+ matches per style at Fargo, and once you got to the later rounds the matches were closer and closer together. I remember seeing a guy finish a match, make his way back to the bleachers, slump in his seat from exhaustion, only to be called to the mat seconds later. He ended up placing second, but he looked so mentally defeated when they called his name that quickly.
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TofC and Tulsa Nationals can be the same way.
 
Coach Root said:
I had a young man by the name of Joe Dixon wrestle for me back in the panther wrestling club days of 2006ish... We were at a tournament and things were winding down and Joe still had a few matches... I remember him wrestling a match and pinning his opponent; we told him to stay on the mat and sent out his next opponent. Miss those days.
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If you add up all of the times my son wrestled D.Norris, C.Skinner, A.Allen, P.Najdusak and L.Hoskins you are over 45 matches for just those five. Not to mention C.Huff, Di'tullio boys, list goes on. And that is just the SW Ohio guys.
 
LowdenSwain1 said:
Another part of the problem here is that a lot of people on here are using the rankings that Borofan creates as a justification for their arguments. This is a flawed method of basing an argument on. It is one man's opinion on who he thinks are the best 20-40 wrestlers per weight division. It's not his fault and I'm not here to trash his rankings, but it's not even possible to create an accurate set of rankings when one man is pulling all the strings. Now, I'm sure he gets input from a variety of places, but still, no way those rankings are an accurate representation, from top to bottom, of who's who in each weight class. I think it's pretty obvious who the top 2-5 wrestlers are in each weight class, and nobody needs someone creating a ranking to figure that one out. Given the fact that this year there was very little if any wrestling that took place between different areas of the state, for example Cincinnati kids versus Cleveland or Columbus kids, who is to say who is better? One thing is for sure, we will find out over the next couple weekends. The cream will always rise to the top as my grandmother used to say.
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So true. Boro is very transparent by the statistics he puts in the early pages of the almanac that he is correct >60% of the time. That being said I would guess that no one in Ohio comes close to that number.
 
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