Danish Autism/MMR Vaccine Study

Gh0st

Well-known member
https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2727726/measles-mumps-rubella-vaccination-autism-nationwide-cohort-study

Study aimed and addressing three areas.

1) MMR vaccine leading to increased risk for developing autism

2) MMR vaccine potentially triggering autism in susceptible individuals

3) Clustering of autism diagnoses chronologically around the time of MMR vaccination

Large cohort study involving 657,461 children in Denmark. Found no support for any of the three points above (no correlation between MMR and autism). Of note, vaccines in Denmark are completely free and voluntary.

Strengths

1) Highest powered study to date assessing correlation between MMR and autism

2) Looked at all births between 1999-2010 in a fairly homogeneous population

3) Data gathered from national registries that have mandatory reporting, eliminating recall bias

4) Considered environmental and familial risk factors to account for any confounding effect

Weakness

Based cases off of time of first autism diagnosis. Symptoms can appear before first diagnosis which can bias in one of two ways.

1) Families may avoid vaccination due to the emergence of symptoms consistent with autism before a diagnosis is made, this would falsely show less vaccine correlation with autism diagnosis because it would show a case of an unvaccinated child developing autism.

2) A child developing symptoms would have more exposure to the health care system in general and is more likely to be vaccinated as a result. This would falsely show a child diagnosed after vaccination even though symptoms were present before ever getting vaccinated.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Big question for me - what is different between the vaccines used in Denmark and the US, if anything ? If the US is producing in far larger lots - not only due to larger population, but in the interest of longer shelf life - are different compounds added or are there different proportions of some stabilizing compounds ?
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Big question for me - what is different between the vaccines used in Denmark and the US, if anything ? If the US is producing in far larger lots - not only due to larger population, but in the interest of longer shelf life - are different compounds added or are there different proportions of some stabilizing compounds ?
The vaccine formulas and quality control procedures are standardized by the WHO globally, so there shouldn't be much variation in the end product. Manufacturers also have to get WHO approval to produce vaccines.

The US does have more ethnic diversity than most (probably all) countries, so maybe that could be perceived as a contributor. But all studies on US populations have essentially yielded the same result, that there is no correlation.

This was just the largest population group in a single study and adds validity to other studies that were done with the same conclusions.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Have there been periods of time in which demand has increased, or maybe if a peak and decrease was anticipated, that the WHO modified their formula to increase shelf life ?
 

IamToz15

Active member
This study will quickly be swept under the rug by the large anti-vac propaganda machine. There have been other studies show a genetic marker "in the womb."

I know it hurts parents to admit it, but its they are who causes retardation, not a shot. They have the genetic defect.
 

FootballFan1795

Well-known member
So, am I still susceptible to autism or not? Was vaccinated for measles a year after I was born, but was still caught up in the beginning stages of a measles outbreak that struck Kent’s campus when I was in college (ultimately, this nationwide epidemic led to today’s recommendations for a second MMR dose). Even had the CDC call me about it, asking if I knew who I got it from (eventually figured out that I went to a party at my brother’s Kent apartment, where his roommate’s friend – who was visiting from Illinois – was unknowingly contagious).

Remember calling my accounting instructor to tell her I felt sick and to ask about arranging a make-up time for taking her exam. She didn’t buy that I was sick (she admitted to it later and apologized), stated that she wasn’t offering any make-ups, and insisted that I come to class to take the test. So I coughed my way through the test and spread the measles everywhere that day. Couldn’t take any codeine for the cough cuz I’m allergic. Left me feeling loopy for weeks afterwards, lol.

At almost four years old, I also got vaccinated for rubella, after I developed mumps on Easter morning. You’d think me getting the mumps would have clued my parents in that something wasn’t right with my vaccines, lol. Anyways, since my vaccines were ineffective, I should be safe from developing autism, right? :unsure:

https://www.kent.edu/publichealth/news/measles-vaccination-why-ohio-must-step-it

“Many also forget that we had a massive U.S. measles outbreak in 1989-91,” she continues. While 644 U.S. cases in 2014 seems high compared with recent years, 25 years ago, measles incidence spiked to 18,000 cases per year, with a total of more than 55,000 infections before the outbreak began to dwindle. It was the largest measles outbreak in this country since the 1970s,” she says.

In fact, more than 300 Kent State students came down with measles in the spring of 1989, out of a total 661 Ohio cases. According to the CDC, Kent State and Texas Tech University were the two largest collegiate measles outbreaks that year. Many stricken students had received one vaccination during childhood, but did not develop sufficient immunity. Today, a two-dose series is the recommended standard.
 

fish82

Well-known member
This study will quickly be swept under the rug by the large anti-vac propaganda machine. There have been other studies show a genetic marker "in the womb."

I know it hurts parents to admit it, but its they are who causes retardation, not a shot. They have the genetic defect.
Agreed.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
This study will quickly be swept under the rug by the large anti-vac propaganda machine. There have been other studies show a genetic marker "in the womb."

I know it hurts parents to admit it, but its they are who causes retardation, not a shot. They have the genetic defect.
agreed

Greater diagnosis today, certainly. It's even incentivized to a degree, in the form of potential private educational benefits. I also think that old defects that always existed may emerge in a different compound form today, in the course of a child's development. Less kids being raised at home by loving and personally attentive moms all day, video stimulation/isolation, chemical sensitivity/saturation perhaps.

I do suspect that all of these studies of autism may be a bit too focused, and if the data keeps getting turned over, ground up, and juxtaposed, eventually an unsuspected link or set of factors may emerge. The problem is incentivizing the further research. "Who is going to pay for this ?" is the one question most opposed to pure science.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
"Conclusion: The study strongly supports that MMR vaccination does not increase the risk for autism, does not trigger autism in susceptible children, and is not associated with clustering of autism cases after vaccination."
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
"Conclusion: The study strongly supports that MMR vaccination does not increase the risk for autism, does not trigger autism in susceptible children, and is not associated with clustering of autism cases after vaccination."
I would suspect that warehousing 6-18 month old children in a typical day-care setting has more to do with triggering autistic tendencies, or pushing individuals down the spectrum of autism. Who is going to finance that study ? Hillsdale or Grove City may be the only shot in academia for that third rail......

Misogynistc take ? Anti- working mom ? Some may say so. Nature/nurtue, or their synthesis ?
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
One correlation I have seen, which was interesting to me, was the rates of induction and augmentation of labor correlated with increase in autism cases. I haven't followed up on it, but the original data was compelling.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
So, am I still susceptible to autism or not? Was vaccinated for measles a year after I was born, but was still caught up in the beginning stages of a measles outbreak that struck Kent’s campus when I was in college (ultimately, this nationwide epidemic led to today’s recommendations for a second MMR dose). Even had the CDC call me about it, asking if I knew who I got it from (eventually figured out that I went to a party at my brother’s Kent apartment, where his roommate’s friend – who was visiting from Illinois – was unknowingly contagious).

Remember calling my accounting instructor to tell her I felt sick and to ask about arranging a make-up time for taking her exam. She didn’t buy that I was sick (she admitted to it later and apologized), stated that she wasn’t offering any make-ups, and insisted that I come to class to take the test. So I coughed my way through the test and spread the measles everywhere that day. Couldn’t take any codeine for the cough cuz I’m allergic. Left me feeling loopy for weeks afterwards, lol.

At almost four years old, I also got vaccinated for rubella, after I developed mumps on Easter morning. You’d think me getting the mumps would have clued my parents in that something wasn’t right with my vaccines, lol. Anyways, since my vaccines were ineffective, I should be safe from developing autism, right? :unsure:

https://www.kent.edu/publichealth/news/measles-vaccination-why-ohio-must-step-it

I think I contracted measles just reading that adventure.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
One correlation I have seen, which was interesting to me, was the rates of induction and augmentation of labor correlated with increase in autism cases. I haven't followed up on it, but the original data was compelling.
I remember hearing a thing or two about that.

Bradley childbirth method coach here. My wife is terrific.
 

IamToz15

Active member
I would suspect that warehousing 6-18 month old children in a typical day-care setting has more to do with triggering autistic tendencies, or pushing individuals down the spectrum of autism. Who is going to finance that study ? Hillsdale or Grove City may be the only shot in academia for that third rail......

Misogynistc take ? Anti- working mom ? Some may say so. Nature/nurtue, or their synthesis ?
Interesting take. Agreed that nature/nurture is worth a study. I just think we'll still find it to be a genetic abnormality. I also believe, from personal contact, the propaganda machine is led solely, and unfortunately, by those with more commas on their W2.

Again, a study of environment would be interesting. But I truly believe it will only show that it, as well, is not a factor. To many families have multiple "normal" children with an autistic child mixed in. This is their groundwork for an outside source cause. Furthermore, if family environment were a factor, that certainly isn't going to be accepted by the anti-vac crowd. They already refuse to acknowledge any blame for its cause.
 

IamToz15

Active member
One correlation I have seen, which was interesting to me, was the rates of induction and augmentation of labor correlated with increase in autism cases. I haven't followed up on it, but the original data was compelling.
This would be an interesting study as well. I believe, some of these same correlations are being done in trying to pin down the root causes of cerebral palsy?
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Interesting take. Agreed that nature/nurture is worth a study. I just think we'll still find it to be a genetic abnormality. I also believe, from personal contact, the propaganda machine is led solely, and unfortunately, by those with more commas on their W2.

Again, a study of environment would be interesting. But I truly believe it will only show that it, as well, is not a factor. To many families have multiple "normal" children with an autistic child mixed in. This is their groundwork for an outside source cause. Furthermore, if family environment were a factor, that certainly isn't going to be accepted by the anti-vac crowd. They already refuse to acknowledge any blame for its cause.
Of course the basis is a genetic abnormality. I think that should be understood. I plainly stated that I believe it possible that the emotional isolation triggers or exacerbates the condition.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
I would suspect that warehousing 6-18 month old children in a typical day-care setting has more to do with triggering autistic tendencies, or pushing individuals down the spectrum of autism. Who is going to finance that study ? Hillsdale or Grove City may be the only shot in academia for that third rail......

Misogynistc take ? Anti- working mom ? Some may say so. Nature/nurtue, or their synthesis ?
What is even the basis for such a theory?
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Last edited:

Gh0st

Well-known member
I went back and looked at a few articles on augmentation and induction of labor and autism. At best, there's maybe a correlation, but nothing that's been done that could reasonably prove causation. Most of the studies are too small, are retrospective, or don't take genetic predisposition into account. Something to look at though.
 
.
Top