COVID and private schools

Do you think enrollment at private schools will decline since COVID may be forcing schools to have more online vs in-class instruction? Would you play more to send your kid to an online school vs a free public school education? Considering most people send their kids to a private school for the in-class experience.
 

Summa

Well-known member
Do you think enrollment at private schools will decline since COVID may be forcing schools to have more online vs in-class instruction? Would you play more to send your kid to an online school vs a free public school education? Considering most people send their kids to a private school for the in-class experience.
If it goes on for a long period like the entire school year of 2020-2021. Otherwise, the remote learning alone will have a minimal effect on private schools. The bigger problem will be the lack or restrictions for fundraising events and other events that private schools use for revenue. That is a much bigger problem for private schools if this last much longer.

Also, if this goes on much longer, look for layoffs to start happening at public schools. The cuts for public schools announced yesterday are only for a couple months. I see more cuts coming for public schools if this last into next fall or beyond. Public schools will be further harmed by the inevitable decline in real property values and/or property owners defaulting on their real estate taxes. This issue will be delayed and become more of a problem in about two years as real estate taxes are assessed one year behind.

Both public and private schools will be hurt by this continuing crisis and how the elected officials are handling it. Private schools are at a much greater risk of closure due to the crisis, but public schools will be under more pressure to reduce costs and potentially consolidate with other districts. Teacher and administrative salaries are by far the largest costs for public school districts. I see no way that public schools can keep all their teachers with reduced tax revenue and remote learning. Public school funding is dependant on people working and businesses being open so they can pay taxes. Private schools are dependent on businesses being open and people having jobs and in turn those businesses and people being able to donate and/or pay tuition.

The Governor better start seriously taking into account the economic impact of his decisions as they are as important as the health issues.
 
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FootballFan1795

Well-known member
The bigger problem will be the lack or restrictions for fundraising events and other events that private schools use for revenue. That is a much bigger problem for private schools if this last much longer.
Just yesterday, heard that our local private is planning a fundraiser to sell face masks with the school's logo on it, lol.

Also, if this goes on much longer, look for layoffs to start happening at public schools.
Just got off the phone with my kid, who's a teacher. Said a good friend, who's also a teacher at a local public school, just got called in to the school this morning and let go for next school year. Apparently, other teachers also 'resigned' last week, but it was all kept very quiet. This friend thought those teachers had personal reasons for leaving, but now realizes exactly what was going on. :(
 

SMARTY22

Well-known member
Couple factors come into play for Private Schools in my opinion. First what will the Guidelines/Restrictions call for as far as learning environment. Second, #1 may dictate how these Schools are able to do business/raise money. Some Schools after factors one and 2 will still probably not be able to survive. Parochial Grade Schools could end up in big trouble quickly if no in person church, no festivals, no fashion show or whatever they may use to raise $.
 

Summa

Well-known member
Just yesterday, heard that our local private is planning a fundraiser to sell face masks with the school's logo on it, lol.
That's funny. I thought about that the other day, that schools will sell masks with the school logo on it. I knew I wasn't the only one to think that, and obviously at least one school is already doing it.
 

Summa

Well-known member
Couple factors come into play for Private Schools in my opinion. First what will the Guidelines/Restrictions call for as far as learning environment. Second, #1 may dictate how these Schools are able to do business/raise money. Some Schools after factors one and 2 will still probably not be able to survive. Parochial Grade Schools could end up in big trouble quickly if no in person church, no festivals, no fashion show or whatever they may use to raise $.
Agree completely.
 

tom 48

Well-known member
The more private schools close, the more students for the public schools. The more students in the public schools, the more money is needed. With the cuts in aid, public schools are going to have a whole lot of deep financial problems. Hope your district has deep pockets.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
I've been debating sending my child to an online public charter school if this continues through the Fall. I see no benefit to sending her to the local public school who is just learning how to educate online. I would rather go with a school that has years of experience.

When things change back to normal, she would go back to her regular school. I imagine there are a few private school parents that are thinking along the same lines. Brick & mortar schools are at a disadvantage when trying to educate online.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
The business of education in general will be a huge mess the next few years and everyone better be prepared, not just privates but also the public and for profit schools. Those that are best prepared to deal with this are probably the traditional prep schools with large endowments that can be tapped into and frugal public districts with tight resources and most importantly teacher contracts that are more favorable to the district. Those most hurting will be the privates hanging on by a thread, publics that are dependent on the state, and districts that were cozy to the teacher unions and have bad contracts. I am already hearing about how some districts want to make personnel cuts but are being told they cannot due to contract language, thus the above "resign" situation to work around it. Also conditions at a school are going to drastically change which will create a lot of issues; you can start with staggered days/times. Then how do you deal with shared resources like text books, computer terminals, art supplies etc? What becomes of science labs? How about buses?

Then you have colleges...
 

Summa

Well-known member
The business of education in general will be a huge mess the next few years and everyone better be prepared, not just privates but also the public and for profit schools. Those that are best prepared to deal with this are probably the traditional prep schools with large endowments that can be tapped into and frugal public districts with tight resources and most importantly teacher contracts that are more favorable to the district. Those most hurting will be the privates hanging on by a thread, publics that are dependent on the state, and districts that were cozy to the teacher unions and have bad contracts. I am already hearing about how some districts want to make personnel cuts but are being told they cannot due to contract language, thus the above "resign" situation to work around it. Also conditions at a school are going to drastically change which will create a lot of issues; you can start with staggered days/times. Then how do you deal with shared resources like text books, computer terminals, art supplies etc? What becomes of science labs? How about buses?

Then you have colleges...
In person learning is vitally important for K-12 in my opinion, but much less so for many college majors. College aged kids are on their own essentially whether they are on campus or not. They either do the work and graduate or they fail out. Many college degrees can be obtained with remote class time and that certainly is not worth $40,000 a year in tuition. This crisis is going to hurt colleges a lot not just in the bottom line but in the realization that the ridiculous tuition of colleges is not a great investment with a good return for a lot of students.

I sure would have missed out on a lot of fun had there been remote classes when I was in college. If I could go back and to any time of my life, I would relive my 4 years of undergrad without question.
 

Raylan_Givens

Active member
There is also a 3rd side to this coin - homeschooling. Breaking the state/area down you end up with 3 cluster groups -
1. This is an overreaction
2. Not sure
3. We're not doing near enough

Group #1 is sending their kids back to school the second they can.
Group #2 will go back, but may not be as involved in extra stuff and may decide the extra cost of private wasn't necessary.
The folks in #3 - we may not see them again except at the market (if you know what their eyes look like). If there are home-school stocks, buy them now. There are folks who will not go back to restaurants, stadiums, bars, etc because they are scared. If they won't go to a Bob Evans for a sitdown meal, do you think they'll be excited to send their kids back to school?
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Wanna bet it's gonna take young Johnny no more than three sessions to figure out how to virtually drip Peggy's pigtails into the ink pot. I'm anticipating teachers to have a whole new set of classroom disruptions to deal with, if they go on-line.


The parents' motivations won't change significantly for choosing public versus private.

For argument's sake, there could be a resurgence in private school, particularly at the elementary levels. They've been held back mostly in the lower levels, cost of teachers. If on-line, might be more willing to accept less if doing the teaching from home. Companies and corporations providing on-line instruction (mostly textbook company supported) are going to be popping out of the woodwork making that instruction less expenive and equitable across instructional capabilities.

The effects of on-line on Ed Choice? Hmm. might work against private. The oft repeated and generally believed reason for "failure" of most districts isn't the teaching, it's the disruptions to the process. For what teaching aspect there is, on-line teaching is much more amenable to observation. The slackers easier to identify. However undaunted, Toledo Central Catholic is already recruiting voucher students for their on-line foosball team.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
If it goes on for a long period like the entire school year of 2020-2021. Otherwise, the remote learning alone will have a minimal effect on private schools. The bigger problem will be the lack or restrictions for fundraising events and other events that private schools use for revenue. That is a much bigger problem for private schools if this last much longer.

Both public and private schools will be hurt by this continuing crisis and how the elected officials are handling it. Private schools are at a much greater risk of closure due to the crisis, but public schools will be under more pressure to reduce costs and potentially consolidate with other districts.
Yeah. It's been sort of unclear what effect COVID-19 + the shutdown currently has on my alma's enrollment for next year and what effect it may have later down the line this summer. I'm not entirely sure if our Diocese is going to play a role in helping the ten high schools (really there's 5-6 that actually need help with this, mine included) navigate the path toward losing the least amount of students as possible, or not. And if they do play a role, what that would be. Our new Bishop seems to be down with the cause, so that's a plus.

I'm curious if privates will consider lowering tuition (by some percentage) to account for the lack of in-person instruction. Gut says no, but if its feasible then I'm sure it would happen.

As for the restrictions on fundraising events: yeah. This sucks. Missing out on the annual dinner auction in April, and possibly the fall festival that the 'alma puts on, is a bummer for everyone. Especially the school and its pockets. These fundraisers are insanely lucrative whenever the opportunity presents itself for alumni to buy $8 beer tickets/$13 mixed drinks, buy plenty of them and in the process "act a fool." Bummer, man.
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
The more private schools close, the more students for the public schools. The more students in the public schools, the more money is needed. With the cuts in aid, public schools are going to have a whole lot of deep financial problems. Hope your district has deep pockets.
Grant I teach in South Carolina but the last 2 school years, including this one, our district and school have gone to great lengths to keep our class sizes at a max of 27 students in core classes, but said last Tuesday in a virtual staff meeting there is a good chance that could jump up to 35 as a max per class. Grant it 35 is the state max and our district / school has just been really good to us. However, as of now no one has been laid off. Couple of retirees but the school and district are still hiring as we speak.

In SC that state university in Columbia released a statement last Wednesday that they would be "back to normal" on August 15th. Now that can obviously change but as of mid May that's the mindset right now.
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
Wanna bet it's gonna take young Johnny no more than three sessions to figure out how to virtually drip Peggy's pigtails into the ink pot. I'm anticipating teachers to have a whole new set of classroom disruptions to deal with, if they go on-line.


The parents' motivations won't change significantly for choosing public versus private.

For argument's sake, there could be a resurgence in private school, particularly at the elementary levels. They've been held back mostly in the lower levels, cost of teachers. If on-line, might be more willing to accept less if doing the teaching from home. Companies and corporations providing on-line instruction (mostly textbook company supported) are going to be popping out of the woodwork making that instruction less expenive and equitable across instructional capabilities.

The effects of on-line on Ed Choice? Hmm. might work against private. The oft repeated and generally believed reason for "failure" of most districts isn't the teaching, it's the disruptions to the process. For what teaching aspect there is, on-line teaching is much more amenable to observation. The slackers easier to identify. However undaunted, Toledo Central Catholic is already recruiting voucher students for their on-line foosball team.
Spoke with a student last week via google meets who told me his parents have already begun investigating the district's virtual school regardless of whether we go back as usual, with guidelines or not at all come August. He said this online experience has convinced his parents that he moves at a greater pace than his classmates and that virtual school would better suit him academically. Now one kid does not a movement make but I could definitely see more of this scenario happen as we inch closer and closer to next school year.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Spoke with a student last week via google meets who told me his parents have already begun investigating the district's virtual school regardless of whether we go back as usual, with guidelines or not at all come August.
His district already had a virtual school? Or are you talking a charter school type thing? If already had, that is a forward thinking district. Was it designed to isolate students from the population for any of various reasons? Teacher taught or computer program? Individually paced or no?
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
His district already had a virtual school? Or are you talking a charter school type thing? If already had, that is a forward thinking district. Was it designed to isolate students from the population for any of various reasons? Teacher taught or computer program? Individually paced or no?
So I did some more digging and it appears that even though the virtual program offers everything a kid would need credit wise they can not do virtual school full-time. They can only sign up for at most 2 courses during the fall spring or summer. I know some kids have done virtual PE over the summer to make room for something else during the regular school day. I know the state of south carolina does offer a virtual home school situation that is full-time but i'm not 100% sure how that works. I had a wrestler this past year who did virtual home school who said it was self-paced BUT there were deadlines for assignments / projects. He said you could basically knock out everything for the week by Wednesday and be good for the week. I wonder if instead of the district's virtual school if his parents are looking into the state home / virtual school program.

My guess is is that my district's virtual program for a lot of those who do it is for those who want to take something to free up regular school year course scheduling OR try to maybe graduate early in some cases? In SC the state requires 24 credits to graduate and at my school kids take 7 credits a year. So I imagine some kids / parents try to virtual school a few classes here and there to graduate after their 11th grade year. Not 100% sure on that. Many probably use it to some degree as a form of what use to be summer school.

I've only ever known a handful of recent early graduates so not sure how common using it for that purpose is. In SC kids can take 9th grade English and courses like Algebra 1 and Spanish 1 in 8th grade for high school credit. This in my experience is way more common.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
So I did some more digging and it appears that even though the virtual program offers everything a kid would need credit wise they can not do virtual school full-time. They can only sign up for at most 2 courses during the fall spring or summer. I know some kids have done virtual PE over the summer to make room for something else during the regular school day. I know the state of south carolina does offer a virtual home school situation that is full-time but i'm not 100% sure how that works. I had a wrestler this past year who did virtual home school who said it was self-paced BUT there were deadlines for assignments / projects. He said you could basically knock out everything for the week by Wednesday and be good for the week. I wonder if instead of the district's virtual school if his parents are looking into the state home / virtual school program.

My guess is is that my district's virtual program for a lot of those who do it is for those who want to take something to free up regular school year course scheduling OR try to maybe graduate early in some cases? In SC the state requires 24 credits to graduate and at my school kids take 7 credits a year. So I imagine some kids / parents try to virtual school a few classes here and there to graduate after their 11th grade year. Not 100% sure on that. Many probably use it to some degree as a form of what use to be summer school.

I've only ever known a handful of recent early graduates so not sure how common using it for that purpose is. In SC kids can take 9th grade English and courses like Algebra 1 and Spanish 1 in 8th grade for high school credit. This in my experience is way more common.
Would you be able to stack your 2 online courses with your 7 in person courses?
 

D4fan

Well-known member
Spoke with a student last week via google meets who told me his parents have already begun investigating the district's virtual school regardless of whether we go back as usual, with guidelines or not at all come August. He said this online experience has convinced his parents that he moves at a greater pace than his classmates and that virtual school would better suit him academically. Now one kid does not a movement make but I could definitely see more of this scenario happen as we inch closer and closer to next school year.
Social issues often creep in with home schooling. We home schooled for awhile and our kids were significantly advanced academically, but were shy, lacked confidence around peers and did not do well at solving simple problems while interacting with people outside of their little family circle.

So we sent them to private school. Teachers were not prepared to offer differentiated materials so while the rest of the class was covering their planned subject, our shy kids who we sent to school for primarily social interaction reasons were given work to do in the hallway by themselves.
I mention all that to say this, many parents who were only sending their kids to school for social development and not for the academics, will be quick to pull their kids out of a school that is overcrowded due to spending cuts or one that isolates their kids with online self instruction programs.

Our youngest is still in college, but will not return to their university if in class instruction or off campus multi student housing is not an option.

In another note more to the OP, during the last recession of 2009, our kids private school lost approximately 20% of their students. That was prior to voucher payments. If the state does not have money to fund vouchers or parents dont have jobs it could get real ugly at the private school.
 

USA70PP

Well-known member
Kinda along these lines, saw an article yesterday questioning how these students in the on-line schooling situation will be graded.
 

ogealbhain

Well-known member
Kinda along these lines, saw an article yesterday questioning how these students in the on-line schooling situation will be graded.
Many are going pass/fail: https://www.dispatch.com/news/20200511/how-should-ohio-schools-grade-students-during-coronavirus-pandemic?fbclid=IwAR0P9ugPX1dHi5vfJUsc7VyLyY41xP4b972r8nod9SHYElEDHMtcBv089q0

And some are counting a pass as an A.

My son's HS is giving grades for Q4 but the final grade will be averaged with the Q3 final grade to arrive at Q4 final grade.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Just what we need, more grade inflation. Along with everyone getting a trophy in sports everyone gets an A.

I forget who did this but there is a study out that basically says in most colleges only the STEM classes have maintained a traditional bell curve when it comes to grading. In particular down trending majors like English & History are now everyone gets an A subjects so the Profs keep students in their classes and they keep their gigs.
 

tom 48

Well-known member
Just what we need, more grade inflation. Along with everyone getting a trophy in sports everyone gets an A.

I forget who did this but there is a study out that basically says in most colleges only the STEM classes have maintained a traditional bell curve when it comes to grading. In particular down trending majors like English & History are now everyone gets an A subjects so the Profs keep students in their classes and they keep their gigs.
I'd like to see that " study."
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Just what we need, more grade inflation. Along with everyone getting a trophy in sports everyone gets an A.

I forget who did this but there is a study out that basically says in most colleges only the STEM classes have maintained a traditional bell curve when it comes to grading. In particular down trending majors like English & History are now everyone gets an A subjects so the Profs keep students in their classes and they keep their gigs.
I guess this all depends on the school (read further: its size) and how much of the faculty is tenured. Tenured faculty are protected and have no incentive to give a bull**** grade. Adjuncts, part-time instructors and non-tenured profs may answer to this "pressure" (the extent of which seems indeterminate), but again that really just depends on the nature of the school.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
Just what we need, more grade inflation. Along with everyone getting a trophy in sports everyone gets an A.
I understand where you are coming from but I think in this case it is the right call. Schools should not be punishing students for this. My school district is averaging the first three quarters and your 4th quarter grade cannot be lower than that.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I understand where you are coming from but I think in this case it is the right call. Schools should not be punishing students for this. My school district is averaging the first three quarters and your 4th quarter grade cannot be lower than that.

The most obvious result of that to me is that your district is passing students that maybe never went to class or otherwise are not prepare to matriculate to the next level per the teachers' professional opinion. Grades D,D.F, kid never went to class Q3 still passes Q4 and then the average passes the semester. The consequence of that would be students never getting the education they need and also matriculating to classes for which they've never prepared.

It's not about "not hurting." You "not hurt" by providing the education and evaluating the results instead of lying to kids and telling them they are prepared for life, thank you very much for the money.

Districts, particularly the failing districts are hanging on by on graduation rates and alternative pathways. They just took advantage of the situation to up their numbers with auto passing. You don't hurt a child by making sure they have their right to an education.
 

tom 48

Well-known member
Thank you. Grade inflation has been going on for years , as colleges attempt to rationalize the outrageous prices they are charging, so parents feel that they are spending their money wisely. In the lower grades, grade inflation has become more prevalent as parents continue to interfere in the process by demanding that little Jaydn and little Megyn not have their self-concepts damaged or have them feeling bad about themselves. It's a product of helicopter and lawnmower parenting. It's not exclusive to college.

Getting back to the private schools in Ohio, I wonder how many will not survive this. Schools that are barely surviving won't be able to hold on. Benedictine has done a remarkable job, despite the challenges. Strong alumni support is key to survival, but several places don't have it, and will be hurting, with people unable or unwilling to pay the tuition, especially if they have more than one kid in the schools. Have schools made their plans known to their constituents? Ignatius has begun a program of additional tuition assistance for those affected, but the school's financial situation is very good. I hope others can pull through.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Thank you. Grade inflation has been going on for years , as colleges attempt to rationalize the outrageous prices they are charging, so parents feel that they are spending their money wisely. In the lower grades, grade inflation has become more prevalent as parents continue to interfere in the process by demanding that little Jaydn and little Megyn not have their self-concepts damaged or have them feeling bad about themselves. It's a product of helicopter and lawnmower parenting. It's not exclusive to college.

Getting back to the private schools in Ohio, I wonder how many will not survive this. Schools that are barely surviving won't be able to hold on. Benedictine has done a remarkable job, despite the challenges. Strong alumni support is key to survival, but several places don't have it, and will be hurting, with people unable or unwilling to pay the tuition, especially if they have more than one kid in the schools. Have schools made their plans known to their constituents? Ignatius has begun a program of additional tuition assistance for those affected, but the school's financial situation is very good. I hope others can pull through.
As I indicated on the Urbana thread endowment is the key to health of a private institution. Those that have solid ones and resist the urge to dip into them will survive, those that cannot afford this will probably fall off unless a white knight comes in and saves the day.
 

tom 48

Well-known member
As I indicated on the Urbana thread endowment is the key to health of a private institution. Those that have solid ones and resist the urge to dip into them will survive, those that cannot afford this will probably fall off unless a white knight comes in and saves the day.
Too many Catholic schools have neglected building the endowment, especially the smaller ones. It would be tragic to see many of them fail, but they had been warned many years ago about this. I fear several in Cleveland going the way of Chanel and Regina.
 
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