Comments by Badin's coach.....thoughts?

Doublehelix said:
And if you've noticed, they're not nearly as dominant anymore because kids have more choices now.

How is it ok for private schools to collect the best talent from 30+ feeder schools, but a public school can't bring in a few buddies that want to play together? The privates have had the red carpet rolled out for them, and now that they tides are shifting, they claim abuse. It's pathetic and tremendously weak.

But like I've said, all of these suburban private schools think success is an entitlement to them, and they will double down on any narrative they can to try to regain that edge. But this time, it's not working, and as more years go by, the talent shift continues.

The privates can hoard talent, but no one else can!!! Let's not act like Purcell Marian is some power player in the landscape of city sports. They're more like a public school than a suburban private.
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Public school demographics with the ability to recruit like a private school. Again, everyone knows that Purcell is recruiting kids. I know Jamar will say it isn't true and everyone will say it's because of stuff like the "championship culture" and "kids want to play together" or whatever, but we all know the truth. Guess what? Really good basketball players don't show up to MND for the Catholic education either. Some people are okay with the recruiting and I suppose that's up to each person's individual belief on high school sports, but the false reasoning behind all of it is weird.
 
CGradADad said:
A little more context here about the Badin program. Their CB number is 21. That means they had at least 3 kids on their team last year that did not come from their “district” or go to parochial school their whole life. Their coach runs an aau program and a lot of his staff over the years have coached in that program. They have had several transfers in his 16 years as the head coach, including a starter this year, who played her freshman year at Fairfield.

Badin has aggressively been selling their school for the last 8-10 years. Their enrollment is up. Surrounding schools are not real happy with what they have been doing as an entire school. In fact, this is why Ross dropped them in all sports. They accused Badin of having coaches at Ross junior high games. When Badin did nothing to address this, Ross dropped them in all sports. How many "transfers" are on the Badin football and baseball teams? They had such a high CB number in baseball one year, they went from d3 to d1. Sunderman may have opened a door that Badin would have preferred not to be opened.
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Wow.....that's crazy. I really knew nothing about Badin girls basketball, but I had heard stories about their baseball program. Did he really just think people would let his comments blow over and not turn them around on him with the facts? Unreal
 
Doublehelix said:
He's very wrong.

Again, for the people that say schools "recruit", you also have to acknowledge that open borders has given kids the opportunity for choice that they didn't have in the past. It has created the opportunity for them to create the opportunities of their choosing. And sometimes they collectively take control of it. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with kids wanting to play with other good players and deciding on mutual schools.

Some of these private schools have had their cake and have eaten it to, and now that the tides are turning, they revert to the "cheater cheater pumpkin eater" approach when families have used this open opportunity to open up more successful avenues for their kids through sports. This nonsense is 100% a reaction to them losing control of their entitled place in the hierarchy, and they can't deal with it.

This new reality has literally been going on for 15+ years now, and people still whine and complain and try to diminish the success these diverse groups are having instead of holding them up on a pedestal for positive and inclusive change. It also 100% has racial undertones as it's not a coincidence that the ire of this success are almost always Balck male and female athletes. It needs to stop.
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I mean, but isn't weird how over the period of the last 5 years or so, the kids "collectively" decided to take control of their opportunities and all go to Purcell Marian? With no outside influence at all? No AAU influence? I mean half of them are Winton Woods or Walnut Hills kids, they couldn't collectively decide to go there? You said yourself that Purcell is no major player in the city. The fact that Jamar is basketball coach/athletic director had no effect? When Kerr was the boys coach and Mosley was the assistant, those boys decided to "collectively" leave their schools and come to Purcell? And we're doing all this just to cruise through the D2 playoffs and beat everyone by 50? Cool, I guess?

Sunderman should have just kept his mouth shut and he's mostly an idiot from what I can tell, but he said what many, many, many people across the basketball part of the city know. And then it's racial undertones? As I've said before, I don't feel bad for any private school in the area. Badin, Alter, MND, Seton, etc. are trying to do the same thing. Mosley is just out-recruiting them and the local publics.
 
CGradADad said:
A little more context here about the Badin program. Their CB number is 21. That means they had at least 3 kids on their team last year that did not come from their “district” or go to parochial school their whole life. Their coach runs an aau program and a lot of his staff over the years have coached in that program. They have had several transfers in his 16 years as the head coach, including a starter this year, who played her freshman year at Fairfield.

Badin has aggressively been selling their school for the last 8-10 years. Their enrollment is up. Surrounding schools are not real happy with what they have been doing as an entire school. In fact, this is why Ross dropped them in all sports. They accused Badin of having coaches at Ross junior high games. When Badin did nothing to address this, Ross dropped them in all sports. How many "transfers" are on the Badin football and baseball teams? They had such a high CB number in baseball one year, they went from d3 to d1. Sunderman may have opened a door that Badin would have preferred not to be opened.

Their head coach, Tom Sunderman, is notorious for telling refs that they will never ref one of his games in the summer if they keep making calls like that against Badin. He has also went in to the officials locker room on at least two occasions after games to scream at them. He went after an official after a game last year, or two years ago, at a game with eastern Ohio officials at a shootout. They said they would never invite Badin back again. He is out of control. And the Badin AD was on his staff for probably 6-8 years and witnessed most of this first hand and has never done anything to discipline this coach. Badin promotes this kind of behavior by allowing it to continue without any consequences.

With all that said, all problems will be solved next year when we move to 7 divisions. Sarcasm.

Purcell is actually the school leading the charge to be able to move up to d1 if you want to compete at that level. I assumed they would move up next year. They may reconsider now to stay in d4 just to beat Badin. Will be a very interesting decision.
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And PM’s coach has a history of calling officials racist. Ask the 3 that removed a fan from their game 2-3 years ago and then were supported by being called racist. Both of these coaches are not saints.
 
Everyone is recruiting. I've witnessed both of these coaches put the full court press on families about joining their program. LOL
 
JackAttack99 said:
I mean, but isn't weird how over the period of the last 5 years or so, the kids "collectively" decided to take control of their opportunities and all go to Purcell Marian? With no outside influence at all? No AAU influence? I mean half of them are Winton Woods or Walnut Hills kids, they couldn't collectively decide to go there? You said yourself that Purcell is no major player in the city. The fact that Jamar is basketball coach/athletic director had no effect? When Kerr was the boys coach and Mosley was the assistant, those boys decided to "collectively" leave their schools and come to Purcell? And we're doing all this just to cruise through the D2 playoffs and beat everyone by 50? Cool, I guess?

Sunderman should have just kept his mouth shut and he's mostly an idiot from what I can tell, but he said what many, many, many people across the basketball part of the city know. And then it's racial undertones? As I've said before, I don't feel bad for any private school in the area. Badin, Alter, MND, Seton, etc. are trying to do the same thing. Mosley is just out-recruiting them and the local publics.
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You don't think kids are collectively deciding to take control of their opportunities and deciding to go to X, Elder and Moe - and in MUCH greater numbers? That stuff happens in 3rd grade.

How is it wrong for PM but not for MND or Elder?

How can people possibly not blink an eye at how a school like St X can literally recruit 3 states, but PM can't have a girl play basketball that doesn't live 5 minutes from the school? How can you justify that?

The publics have begun to level the playing field, after years of being behind the eight ball, and those that have had the red carpet rolled out for them are the ones crying foul? How on earth can people openly be this hypocritical without even winking at you?

The rules are blatantly skewed toward the private suburban schools, and those people are the main whiners. It's unbelievable that people can't even consider a level playing field because there's THAT MUCH fear of losing control.
 
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LELL said:
Yup. But I don't know why everyone feels that they have to throw around the race card. Sad.
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Because that's where it started. Schools like Moe and other public schools started getting kids from broader areas, even before open borders - and those kids were almost always Black kids. The White crowd started blaming these kids for stealing their entitled opportunties at "their" school.

While thankfully that sentiment has gone away at most schools, it most definitely still exists at the schools that are reluctant to move away from the old feeder model. There's no doubt about that. They use code to say everyone else is cheating because they know moving to the updated model means less opportunity for "their" kids on the sports fields. So they rally everyone around this "cheating" concept to ensure control and opportunity are kept.

Saying there's not an element of race to this is either 1) having your head in the sand or 2) not wanting or willing to deal with the obvious. That's the sad part.
 
Doublehelix said:
Because that's where it started. Schools like Moe and other public schools started getting kids from broader areas, even before open borders - and those kids were almost always Black kids. The White crowd started blaming these kids for stealing their entitled opportunties at "their" school.

While thankfully that sentiment has gone away at most schools, it most definitely still exists at the schools that are reluctant to move away from the old feeder model. There's no doubt about that. They use code to say everyone else is cheating because they know moving to the updated model means less opportunity for "their" kids on the sports fields. So they rally everyone around this "cheating" concept to ensure control and opportunity are kept.

Saying there's not an element of race to this is either 1) having your head in the sand or 2) not wanting or willing to deal with the obvious. That's the sad part.
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The sad part is thinking blacks are not part of "their community". But you keep up brining the race card up, we all know your type.
 
LELL said:
The sad part is thinking blacks are not part of "their community". But you keep up brining the race card up, we all know your type.
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I didn't bring up the race card. The article did, and I acknowledged it as being part of the equation. Of course it is. FINALLY, someone had the balls to say it publicly.

And when did I say Blacks are not part of their community? What are you even talking about?
 
If he’s going to speak out, he needs to get the facts right. I don’t have an issue with kids coming outside of normal feeder systems for Catholic schools. My problem would be transfers, that’s where things get out of control.
 
E.S. Furgeson said:
If this is how he feels, then what's the problem? This is a sensitive subject for people on both ends of it. I watched a boys game over the weekend that exposed the advantage held by these private schools, particularly at the lower levels. The Wellington Dukes, a solid division 3 basketball team with lost 68-22 in the district championship to Lutheran East.

It's ridiculous. What is worse is when they pretend like their "championship journeys" were magical.
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It seems more like lashing out after getting your butt handed to you. If he really wanted to do something, he could do it’s behind the scenes.
 
Yappi said:
I'll disagree with you here.

I really don't care about what happens to one kid in one program in one sport anywhere in the state.

What I do care about is the health of HS sports. Right now, HS sports is in the worst shape I've seen in my life. The recruiting and player movement is creating a noticeable downturn in the interest of HS sports. I don't see HS sports continuing much longer due to this selfish behavior.

I go back to the original idea of what HS sports was about...my school playing your school in a sport. Didn't matter what sport, it was supposed to be about the student body bringing together their best players to play against the best players from a different school. If someone wanted to start a pickle ball tournament for the kids to play, it would be alot of fun. If the OHSAA sanctioned the sport, it wouldn't take long for some coach or some fan at a school to go out and actively look for better players to make "their" school a champion.
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There’s nothing wrong with a middle schooler from a public school choosing to attend a Catholic high school. In fact, it’s going to be increasingly more common as a cost saving measure with Catholic school tuition being insanely expensive. Saving 8 years of Catholic Grade School tuition is about the equivalent of 2.5 yrs off Catholic high school.

I do agree, that the transfer situation needs to be put under a microscope. This is where things get out of control.
 
Omar said:
There’s nothing wrong with a middle schooler from a public school choosing to attend a Catholic high school. In fact, it’s going to be increasingly more common as a cost saving measure with Catholic school tuition being insanely expensive. Saving 8 years of Catholic Grade School tuition is about the equivalent of 2.5 yrs off Catholic high school.

I do agree, that the transfer situation needs to be put under a microscope. This is where things get out of control.
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Agree, and also agree with the reverse scenario. Kids and families should have that choice as a universal right.

What's the harm of a Catholic kid going public or a public kid going Catholic? Why is this such a big deal here? Why do people get so up in arms about kids choosing the best path for themselves, whether it's through sports or otherwise?

I just cannot comprehend the rationale of subjecting kids to fewer and fewer schools based on where they live. It's just not right, especially if those schools aren't any good at anything. People act like I'm some social justice warrior when this is simple common sense and decency.
 
Doublehelix said:
You don't think kids are collectively deciding to take control of their opportunities and deciding to go to X, Elder and Moe - and in MUCH greater numbers? That stuff happens in 3rd grade.

How is it wrong for PM but not for MND or Elder?

How can people possibly not blink an eye at how a school like St X can literally recruit 3 states, but PM can't have a girl play basketball that doesn't live 5 minutes from the school? How can you justify that?

The publics have begun to level the playing field, after years of being behind the eight ball, and those that have had the red carpet rolled out for them are the ones crying foul? How on earth can people openly be this hypocritical without even winking at you?

The rules are blatantly skewed toward the private suburban schools, and those people are the main whiners. It's unbelievable that people can't even consider a level playing field because there's THAT MUCH fear of losing control.
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No one is saying this.
 
JackAttack99 said:
No one is saying this.
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Tom Sunderman sure is.

To take it a step further, how is it ok for Elder to gather up all of the best feeder talent on the westside, but a school like Deer Park gets killed for basically doing the same thing on a much smaller scale?

All the publics are doing is exactly what the privates have been doing for their entire existence, and the privates still get mad??? How can they get mad?
 
I was at the game. Their had to be an issue before all of this happened. It seemed like neither coach liked each other very much as Sunderman was putting up 3 in the air when a girl for PM got her third foul and Mosley was telling them to run the clock. Also Sunderman was using TO's to stop the clock to shoot free throws, Mosley pulled out his state championship rings to put on before the handshake.

I think Mosley is one of the best coaches in SW ohio and he puts in the work to be great.

Just wondering if anyone knows if something happened previously!!!
 
radiodaveagain said:
Two Ohio Catholic Schools 'Let It Fly' After Regional Final Game
statelinesportsnetwork.net

Two Ohio Catholic Schools ‘Let It Fly’ After Regional Final Game

Over the years in high school sports public vs. private name calling has been a regular issue. This past weekend two Ohio Catholic schools clashed on the basketball court and now in the newspapers …
statelinesportsnetwork.net statelinesportsnetwork.net
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It's comedy how you just take other media's stories and just run with them lol. Absolutely nothing in your story is new....it's all been in this thread already
 
sportsguy17 said:
I was at the game. Their had to be an issue before all of this happened. It seemed like neither coach liked each other very much as Sunderman was putting up 3 in the air when a girl for PM got her third foul and Mosley was telling them to run the clock. Also Sunderman was using TO's to stop the clock to shoot free throws, Mosley pulled out his state championship rings to put on before the handshake.

I think Mosley is one of the best coaches in SW ohio and he puts in the work to be great.

Just wondering if anyone knows if something happened previously!!!
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Easy to be one of the “best” coaches with that kind of talent don’t ya think.
 
Northside24 said:
You’re down 29-2 with no game plan in the first quarter and those are the words you throw around? Sunderman is insufferable, but unfortunately he’s been that way for years.

Private schools have the advantage of having no borders. Kids want to be a part of championship culture and want to play with other talented kids and PM allows them to do that. They’re geographically located in an area that makes it easy for students from a wide range of communities to attend. Dee - Winton Woods, Wilkins - Clark, Miller twins - Walnut Hills, Mosley - Mt. Washington, Jones - Winton Woods. How is it “out of the ordinary” for those kids to want to attend PM when realistically outside of the GGCL, it’s the closest private school to most. Culture is also a big thing in terms of the school as a whole. PM could be the best social fit for most of those kids.

Badin should be embarrassed about the comments but they’ll continue to put him on a pedestal and run the score up on bad teams setting 3 point records while up 60 until they face real competition. PM will continue to roll.
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!! Dee is one of the 10 best players in the country for her grade #4 to be exact, going and playing for a coach she was familiar with after her 8th grade year. Her friends she grew up playing with wanting to go and play with her and build something at Purcell is not a recruiting violation. No coach in the world will sit back and say no to a top 10 player in the country coming to play for them at their school. No coach is going to say "well what about the school in your neighborhood?" No they are going to take advantage of the opportunity and build something that will attract student athletes for years to come which is what they have done. When you win the name sells itself the coach doesn't have to recruit.
 
Badin had 3 girls average 12.9 or more points a game. 2 of them transferred in. Not really in a position to talk about getting kids "outside your district."
 
Sunderman is a complete jackass. Truth be told lets start breaking down the enrollment across all the sports at Badin and god knows their football program is loaded with kids that never step foot in a parochial school for grades 1-8. Fact of the matter is Purcel has attracted talent because really good players like to play with other good players. Moeller does the same thing as well as StX, Lasalle, and Elder. For a Badin Coach to act like their program has all Catholic school kids is just ridiculous. If my kids went to Badin I would absolutely cringe at hearing Sunderman talk like that.
 
All of this is a really bad look for Badin for making these allegations and Purcell for stating it is race related. Show some class. This is why Badin and Purcell will never be in the same breath as a school like StX, Elder, Seton, Ursuline, or MND. I would of added Moeller to that list but their President kind of ruined things for the moment.
 
Doublehelix said:
You don't think kids are collectively deciding to take control of their opportunities and deciding to go to X, Elder and Moe - and in MUCH greater numbers? That stuff happens in 3rd grade.

How is it wrong for PM but not for MND or Elder?

How can people possibly not blink an eye at how a school like St X can literally recruit 3 states, but PM can't have a girl play basketball that doesn't live 5 minutes from the school? How can you justify that?
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StX doesn't reach out and recruit specific kids, it is just a fact. StX doesn't give any athletic scholarships or even so called academic money to elite athletes. It doesn't happen. If a really good athlete visits the school, heck yes the coaches are going to be in contact during the visit, but they don't go out and try to recruit kids. You will never see a StX Coach out watching 8th grade games or looking for potential athletes to build their teams. StX sells itself and that is just a fact. Do they have kids from 3 different states going to the school and kids driving over an hour to go the school, absolutely yes. But it is because they want to go to StX. There is a reason StX is the only private school in town with kids from every side of town. It is the best school in town and it attracts those students seeking a College Prep Education. Not all of their teams are always great in all sports and often their teams go through down cycles. It is like this because the Coaches do not recruit. They rely on having 1600 boys at a high school and there being a good percentage of them that play sports. So far it has proven to be an excellent model.
 
For a guy who started off saying that he wasn't going to talk about the game, he sure did say a lot.
 
FourthAndOne said:
StX doesn't reach out and recruit specific kids, it is just a fact. StX doesn't give any athletic scholarships or even so called academic money to elite athletes. It doesn't happen. If a really good athlete visits the school, heck yes the coaches are going to be in contact during the visit, but they don't go out and try to recruit kids. You will never see a StX Coach out watching 8th grade games or looking for potential athletes to build their teams. StX sells itself and that is just a fact. Do they have kids from 3 different states going to the school and kids driving over an hour to go the school, absolutely yes. But it is because they want to go to StX. There is a reason StX is the only private school in town with kids from every side of town. It is the best school in town and it attracts those students seeking a College Prep Education. Not all of their teams are always great in all sports and often their teams go through down cycles. It is like this because the Coaches do not recruit. They rely on having 1600 boys at a high school and there being a good percentage of them that play sports. So far it has proven to be an excellent model.
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I never said they illegally recruited. I said they get kids from everywhere. It's a tremendous advantage to get kids from such a wide reach. But when smaller privates or publics have kids band together to play together, people go nuts. It's a complete double standard.

This "schools are recruiting" BS is just a bunch of semantics. Of course kids are drawn to great academic or athletic success. Also, schools have to recruit (legally) to stay relevant. This imaginary line of when it's just about sports and when it's not is just stupid and arbitrary. Kids pick schools for many reasons, sports being one of them.

The ONLY time this comes up is when people gets their butts whooped. It's a massive inferiority complex from the schools that refuse to adapt to current times and continue to try to re-generate the past.
 
cincinnatieng82 said:
!! Dee is one of the 10 best players in the country for her grade #4 to be exact, going and playing for a coach she was familiar with after her 8th grade year. Her friends she grew up playing with wanting to go and play with her and build something at Purcell is not a recruiting violation. No coach in the world will sit back and say no to a top 10 player in the country coming to play for them at their school. No coach is going to say "well what about the school in your neighborhood?" No they are going to take advantage of the opportunity and build something that will attract student athletes for years to come which is what they have done. When you win the name sells itself the coach doesn't have to recruit.
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Everything you said is absolutely correct but lets cut the games he, recruits and his assistants recruit publicly. lol
 
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