Cleveland Heights removed from the Post Season by OHSAA

cardzfan1234

Well-known member

The school is appealing and hopes to get results some time this week. All the AD can say is that they got "verbal permission" to go to this out of state tournament. Like others have said, this will carry absolutely no weight. What proof is there? And like others say, I really doubt that an OHSAA official gave them verbal permission to do all of this anyway. There was probably a big misunderstanding between the two sides. Heights probably didn't give all of the facts, just focused on the out of state part and not the fact that they were missing school to do so.

I will be very disappointed if the OHSAA caves here. I seriously doubt they will.
 
Hey toolbox - I only posted after Matt Gohl posted on Twitter and Cleveland.Com confirmed it. Brush is the only school that had something to gain. The AD (formerly of VASJ) is trying to blame parents - how about taking ownership. The coach, AD and administration f'ed up and now they can pay the Piper. Its justice for their blatant recruiting - serves Tiger Nation well. Win at all cost has its risk - hope winning the conference was worth it.
Every school has their issues. VASJ had the illegal scrimmage with a pro-am team A couple years back. Plus they were wearing illegal jerseys with patches on them for the state tournament as well. No one turned them in. Sometimes we forget it’s about the kids.
 
I'm troubled by a couple of things here (and the following opinions are my own): 1, Who, exactly, is this "OHSAA representative?" Was it Jerry Snodgrass? An intern? Someone on the Northeast District Board? A lot of people like to claim they are representing the OHSAA (especially at pass gates LOL) but few have the knowledge of the by-laws or the authority to approve something of this magnitude. 2, If a basketball player, for instance, gets one of those Daith piercings to help with migraines he/she has to have a WRITTEN authorization signed by a doctor and be able to present to the refs if questioned. There's a paper trail for everything nowadays. So, why would neither the Heights admins or the "OHSAA representative" suggest a written permission letter as proof of this supposed approval?
 

GCP441

Active member

The school is appealing and hopes to get results some time this week. All the AD can say is that they got "verbal permission" to go to this out of state tournament. Like others have said, this will carry absolutely no weight. What proof is there? And like others say, I really doubt that an OHSAA official gave them verbal permission to do all of this anyway. There was probably a big misunderstanding between the two sides. Heights probably didn't give all of the facts, just focused on the out of state part and not the fact that they were missing school to do so.

I will be very disappointed if the OHSAA caves here. I seriously doubt they will.
Well if this is true " OHSAA was informed of Cleveland Heights' violation "a couple of weeks ago" via an anonymous email. then why would someone go out of their way to do this, of course for obvious reasons.The coach and AD did have a conference call with a representative from OHSAA,if they have the name of the representative who gave them permission to go to Vegas. You could be right it could've been an misunderstanding

What if OHSAA does caves in as you say and just suspends the head coach and AD, and Heights stills gets reinstated . would you still be disappointed because they let the kids play it out on the court?
 
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GCP441

Active member
The rule has nothing to do with competitive advantage; it's about prioritizing academics over athletics and making sure there's never a repeat of SVSM's LBJ National Tour.

I think it very unlikely that any OHSAA representative told an AD and a coach "We don't care if the kids miss school. You go ahead and break the rules--it's OK with us as long as nobody from another school calls you out on it." Even then, the story as told makes no sense. Why would the Association care if someone called to tell them something they already knew and had already issued a decision on? What piece of information could a "whistleblower" offer that the Association didn't have and that would make it change its position? I can only think of two: either they didn't realize games were scheduled for Thursday and Friday, or they didn't know those were scheduled school days. And if either of those two extremely pertinent facts were left out of the conference call, then they got their alleged permission under false pretenses.
Matt Goul tweeted this a little while ago Matt Goul from Cleveland.com just Tweeted"Sources have told me Heights' appeal will be based on its players not missing "school time," as written in the bylaws. Final examinations were the week of Dec. 16-20. Players completed their exams before the trip. Getting interesting.
 

Yeoman

Active member
Matt Goul tweeted this a little while ago Matt Goul from Cleveland.com just Tweeted"Sources have told me Heights' appeal will be based on its players not missing "school time," as written in the bylaws. Final examinations were the week of Dec. 16-20. Players completed their exams before the trip. Getting interesting.
What's actually written in the by-laws is this:
“School time” is defined as any time during any day during which the school is in session as stipulated in its Board-adopted school calendar exclusive of contingency days.
It's obvious they didn't want schools trying to shift players' school obligations around so they could be away during scheduled school days "without missing school time." It does create a plausible scenario for a miscommunication though: "Are they going to be missing any scheduled school days?" "No, their exams will be over before we leave," leaving out the part where the players' exams were moved forwards and the other students were still taking theirs. If it went down that way, that's entirely on the school and not the Association.

Suspending my disbelief for the moment and imagining that someone at the OHSAA was talked into this, I still can't understand what a whistleblower could have said that would have changed their minds. I still only see two possibilities: (1) the person who gave the verbal approval wasn't fully apprised of the situation, or (2) they got their verbal approval from someone who didn't have the authority, and when the message came in from the whistleblower it went to someone who did and who knew the rule.
 
They should be made an example of and the rule should be enforced as written.
I see you are back to censorship on this site. My people have been silenced for far too long. No more will remain silent and persecuted for our beliefs. If you are going censor me because my views are different than yours then you and Mug are going to pay the proper restitution.
 

James x2

Well-known member
I see you are back to censorship on this site. My people have been silenced for far too long. No more will remain silent and persecuted for our beliefs. If you are going censor me because my views are different than yours then you and Mug are going to pay the proper restitution.
Say no to censorship!!!!!!! Arc must speak for his people!!!!!! I toast your chutzpah with a glass of Cream Red Manischewitz!!!!!!!!
 

Kballer

Well-known member
Not sure if this is the case but some schools have the bulk of their upper class exams on the first couple of days. My kids sometimes had only one exam a day and then they were done for the day. Some electives (foreign language, arts, tech) offer multiple options of test taking times to best fit the schedules of their students. And some teachers Gave exemptions from the exam if your grade was high enough. I think they could have a valid argument- just should have been clarified and in writing. Instead it is now causing stress and costing time and money for the school and th e OHSAA
 
This is straight from the OHSAA basketball manual (below). It was always my impression the OHSAA doesn't differentiate the particulars of the event. Missing school is missing school regardless of whether it was exams or not. All of the other possible details are insignificant. Some students utilize the CCP Program (College Credit Plus) and take classes for dual credit (high school and college credit) at a junior college of college and are never at the school. The qualifier is that school was in session and they were in another state. With that said, I hate to see kids suffer for administrative mistakes.

Out of State Travel

A basketball team may travel out of state to compete in scrimmages, previews and games in states OR provinces in Canada that border Ohio regardless of distance. This would include the states of Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and West Virginia and the province of Ontario in Canada. A team may travel out of state one time to state or province that does NOT border Ohio but only if there is no loss of school time.

Adopted Penalty for Violation: Exclusion from the OHSAA Tournament.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
So you can lose all the school time you want in a foreign country that requires a passport but not a foreign country like Vegas that does not?
 

GCP441

Active member
This is straight from the OHSAA basketball manual (below). It was always my impression the OHSAA doesn't differentiate the particulars of the event. Missing school is missing school regardless of whether it was exams or not. All of the other possible details are insignificant. Some students utilize the CCP Program (College Credit Plus) and take classes for dual credit (high school and college credit) at a junior college of college and are never at the school. The qualifier is that school was in session and they were in another state. With that said, I hate to see kids suffer for administrative mistakes.

Out of State Travel

A basketball team may travel out of state to compete in scrimmages, previews and games in states OR provinces in Canada that border Ohio regardless of distance. This would include the states of Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and West Virginia and the province of Ontario in Canada. A team may travel out of state one time to state or province that does NOT border Ohio but only if there is no loss of school time.

Adopted Penalty for Violation: Exclusion from the OHSAA Tournament.
Well how does the OHSAA rules and bylaws regard to the Basketball State Tournaments,the potential state champion who will compete in games which some will start Thursday Mornings in Columbus missing school time.
 

rossford_resident

Active member
Well how does the OHSAA rules and bylaws regard to the Basketball State Tournaments,the potential state champion who will compete in games which some will start Thursday Mornings in Columbus missing school time.
Good point. Cleveland Heights should boycott the tournament in protest.
 

Bball216

Well-known member
It's their sandbox. Rules are rules. Plenty of great tournaments close to home - no need to go to Vegas. Hope they had fun.
 
Well how does the OHSAA rules and bylaws regard to the Basketball State Tournaments,the potential state champion who will compete in games which some will start Thursday Mornings in Columbus missing school time.
It's the Lebron James rule. During his senior year SVSM was traveling all over the country. The OHSAA implemented the rule to stop excessive travel. Mentor got dinged the first year, 2004. I don't remember where they went. The penalty was suspension of the head coach for a portion of the season and the tournament. I don't know when they changed the penalty to be exclusion from the tournament. There are 2 parts to it. One is missing school, the other is being in a state that does not border OHIO. It has nothing to do with the state tournament. If you want to say its hypocritical, that would be a fair statement though.
 

bengals wrestling

Active member
Well how does the OHSAA rules and bylaws regard to the Basketball State Tournaments,the potential state champion who will compete in games which some will start Thursday Mornings in Columbus missing school time.
Same with wrestling. The state wrestling tournament runs all day Thursday, all day Friday and all day Saturday, most wrestlers leave Wednesday evening for Columbus and miss school on Thursday and Friday. This is allowed by the OHSAA for one reason. MONEY!
As long as the OHSAA is making money off the events, it's fine for the kids to miss school. Go out of state where the OHSAA does not see a dime and that's another thing. Nothing but a money grab.
 

GCP441

Active member
Same with wrestling. The state wrestling tournament runs all day Thursday, all day Friday and all day Saturday, most wrestlers leave Wednesday evening for Columbus and miss school on Thursday and Friday. This is allowed by the OHSAA for one reason. MONEY!
As long as the OHSAA is making money off the events, it's fine for the kids to miss school. Go out of state where the OHSAA does not see a dime and that's another thing. Nothing but a money grab.
IS TRUMP RUNNING THE OHSAA ALSO!!! SOUNDS LIKE IT.
 

rossford_resident

Active member
Same with wrestling. The state wrestling tournament runs all day Thursday, all day Friday and all day Saturday, most wrestlers leave Wednesday evening for Columbus and miss school on Thursday and Friday. This is allowed by the OHSAA for one reason. MONEY!
As long as the OHSAA is making money off the events, it's fine for the kids to miss school. Go out of state where the OHSAA does not see a dime and that's another thing. Nothing but a money grab.
Or maybe it's so state qualifiers in every division get a chance to compete at the same venue.

"Congratulations on your wrestling accomplishments, Steve - rather than having you miss school we're going to allow you to compete in the Lake High School wrestling room behind the football concession stand next Wednesday."
 

bengals wrestling

Active member
Or maybe it's so state qualifiers in every division get a chance to compete at the same venue.

"Congratulations on your wrestling accomplishments, Steve - rather than having you miss school we're going to allow you to compete in the Lake High School wrestling room behind the football concession stand next Wednesday."
Don't you get it!
It's not about the kids missing school. I believe that any athlete that is in good academic standing should be able to miss a certain amount of school days to attend athletic events. In or out of state. These are where memories and life lessons are made.
It's about the double standard that is set by the OHSSA.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Don't you get it!
It's not about the kids missing school. I believe that any athlete that is in good academic standing should be able to miss a certain amount of school days to attend athletic events. In or out of state. These are where memories and life lessons are made.
It's about the double standard that is set by the OHSSA.
So what about the student that is not an athlete?

This is all very simple.....

There's an organization out there that allows teams to do just what this team has done.... It's called AAU. Step away from the OHSAA an you are free to do what you want.....

until it costs the AAU money.....
 

tcgobucks

Well-known member
C'mon people....comparing missing school days to go to a tournament in Vegas to missing school days to play in the state tournament is ridiculous. The rule has been around for 15 years. They broke it, they receive the punishment. Also, remember that EVERY OHSAA rule is voted on by member schools before it is adopted. The OHSAA doesn't and can't just make up rules and start implementing them without statewide approval
 

bengals wrestling

Active member
So what about the student that is not an athlete?
I only mention the student athlete, because this is an athletic forum. I am all for student leaders missing school days to attend leadership conferences, bands and choirs missing school to attend events, or Catholic school students missing school to attend the Right to Life March in Washington D.C..
High school should be just as life, an experience.
 

rossford_resident

Active member
The rule is pretty simple - no games in far away states that involve missing a school day.

Rules have to apply to rather broadly - if you wrote them to cover every possible situation the rule book would be 1,000 pages.

Member schools endorsed the rule and its consequences.

Cleveland Heights broke the rule.

If you don't like it, get the rule changed or choose not to be a member any more.

I'm not sure if it's still a rule, but it used to be that you couldn't have athletes compete if they lived in another state. The local Catholic schools complained because they draw students from just across the border in Michigan. The solution seemed pretty simple to me. Let the kids play and choose not to play in the state tournament. There were a couple of small Christian schools that were in the same boat. They competed in a Christian school state tournament in years that they weren't eligible.
 
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