Centerville Football

ElksFan1999

New member
As an avid elks fan since the 90's, this has definitely been a tough stretch for the ELKS. I have watched teams under Gregg, Ullery (x2), and Roberts. I have watched a couple of Elks game this year, and to me coaching does not seem to be the biggest issue. I think when you compare teams of old vs now, this years team is relying on some guys that in the past you would not have. There are some kids on the team with a "me first" attitude, that back in the Greg and Ullery Sr. days would have been told see ya. Unfortunately, these teams are seeing lower and lower number of kids playing, and I think there needs to be a change from the peewee and middle school level. The peewee teams stack one good team, so the other teams are not as good and kids get tired of getting waxed every week. Then, at the middle school level, they seem to focus on winning instead of development, playing the same 15-20 kids on both sides of the ball. Therefore your average players who play in B games end up quitting. By the time they are freshman you are seeing 30 kids come out, instead of the 60 that they used to have.
The coaching staff now you have multiple coaches that played under or coached with Gregg and Ullery, and understand the culture of Centerville football. I do not want to put all the blame on the kids, but I do think there are some parents that sit in the stands and bad mouth the coaches every week. You think the players are then going to respect these coaches and put the team first after that? Its hard to build the culture and Elk Pride Centerville is known for when you do not have buy in from the parents as well as the players. Ullery's first year when they went 9-1 you had a senior class that bought in, played as a team, and were true "Centerville" players. I do not know if you could really say that about the classes that are there right now
 

TrueEagle

New member
OK, but he sure hasn’t done much with Butler. Complains about the lack of talent at Butler. I would think they should be a D3 power there.
 

SouthWestOhio

Active member
As an avid elks fan since the 90's, this has definitely been a tough stretch for the ELKS. I have watched teams under Gregg, Ullery (x2), and Roberts. I have watched a couple of Elks game this year, and to me coaching does not seem to be the biggest issue. I think when you compare teams of old vs now, this years team is relying on some guys that in the past you would not have. There are some kids on the team with a "me first" attitude, that back in the Greg and Ullery Sr. days would have been told see ya. Unfortunately, these teams are seeing lower and lower number of kids playing, and I think there needs to be a change from the peewee and middle school level. The peewee teams stack one good team, so the other teams are not as good and kids get tired of getting waxed every week. Then, at the middle school level, they seem to focus on winning instead of development, playing the same 15-20 kids on both sides of the ball. Therefore your average players who play in B games end up quitting. By the time they are freshman you are seeing 30 kids come out, instead of the 60 that they used to have.
The coaching staff now you have multiple coaches that played under or coached with Gregg and Ullery, and understand the culture of Centerville football. I do not want to put all the blame on the kids, but I do think there are some parents that sit in the stands and bad mouth the coaches every week. You think the players are then going to respect these coaches and put the team first after that? Its hard to build the culture and Elk Pride Centerville is known for when you do not have buy in from the parents as well as the players. Ullery's first year when they went 9-1 you had a senior class that bought in, played as a team, and were true "Centerville" players. I do not know if you could really say that about the classes that are there right now
I think you have some good points. But I think there is one thing all you old timers forget is that Gregg last coached at CHS in 1999. That's 21 yrs ago. Think about how the world and how kids have changed since then. Coaches need to change as well. Also since 1999, LAX has stole football players, baseball has a fall league and sports in general have forced kids to specialize. The last true playoff team, 2017 had so much more talent then the last three yrs it is crazy. They had 4 D1 players and several D2/3 players. The last D1 player was two years ago and I believe he is no longer playing at Miami. I agree with everything you said about Wee Elks and Jr High. But the problem still exists at the CHS. That playoff year, the coaches refused to put in back ups in games that they were winning easily. No wonder the drop off the next year was so high. This game last night was under control and he could have put some JV players in. As a person that went to a HS that won championships, I do not see the culture here that needs to win. The HS I went to the coaches were tough but the real culture was carried out by the upper classmen on down. We actually did not hit during practice, we did not get hurt and had the desire to hit in games. We were in shape and disciplined. Here all I see is a culture of yelling coaches that demand complete guidance but do not have true respect, they have respect of fear. Not all the coaches but the ones that matter. And the practices are too extreme. I have heard some of those D1 college kids say the practices at CHS are tougher then college and more time consuming. Longer, tougher and more intense with negative yelling does not yield the results we all want for these kids. That said, I did see some good things the other night. The offense seemed to have new life and new plays, something it has been missing for 3 yrs. The defense while still too small showed great effort and over achieved when they needed to and #9 is a stud player and took over the game. I know there have been calls for a coaching change but I think this last game of the year gave coach a non losing season and I have already seen a tweet from Dement that sounds like he will be back. I just hope he learns from this last game to change things up a bit, get more aggressive but also stop the culture of negative yelling.
 

Ohioriverboy42

Active member
I think you have some good points. But I think there is one thing all you old timers forget is that Gregg last coached at CHS in 1999. That's 21 yrs ago. Think about how the world and how kids have changed since then. Coaches need to change as well. Also since 1999, LAX has stole football players, baseball has a fall league and sports in general have forced kids to specialize. The last true playoff team, 2017 had so much more talent then the last three yrs it is crazy. They had 4 D1 players and several D2/3 players. The last D1 player was two years ago and I believe he is no longer playing at Miami. I agree with everything you said about Wee Elks and Jr High. But the problem still exists at the CHS. That playoff year, the coaches refused to put in back ups in games that they were winning easily. No wonder the drop off the next year was so high. This game last night was under control and he could have put some JV players in. As a person that went to a HS that won championships, I do not see the culture here that needs to win. The HS I went to the coaches were tough but the real culture was carried out by the upper classmen on down. We actually did not hit during practice, we did not get hurt and had the desire to hit in games. We were in shape and disciplined. Here all I see is a culture of yelling coaches that demand complete guidance but do not have true respect, they have respect of fear. Not all the coaches but the ones that matter. And the practices are too extreme. I have heard some of those D1 college kids say the practices at CHS are tougher then college and more time consuming. Longer, tougher and more intense with negative yelling does not yield the results we all want for these kids. That said, I did see some good things the other night. The offense seemed to have new life and new plays, something it has been missing for 3 yrs. The defense while still too small showed great effort and over achieved when they needed to and #9 is a stud player and took over the game. I know there have been calls for a coaching change but I think this last game of the year gave coach a non losing season and I have already seen a tweet from Dement that sounds like he will be back. I just hope he learns from this last game to change things up a bit, get more aggressive but also stop the culture of negative yelling.
Another thing is the other schools in Dayton and SW Ohio have caught up to Centerville. I grew up in Springfield in the 1980s. They did flag football in middle school. Tackling didn't start til HS. They had the little giants peewee football program in the summers, but otherwise, did not have the structured youth programs and facilities Centerville had. I think alot of the area schools back then were more like Springfield than Centerville. Wayne hadn't even won a playoff game before Minton. In some ways, Centerville's success in the 1970s and 80s came from being a pioneer in modernizing HS football, being innovative and leading the way on how things are done now. Back in the day, in the 1940s and 50s, Springfield was the premier Dayton area football program. But, they fell behind by the 1970s when they didn't keep up with the times.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Another thing is the other schools in Dayton and SW Ohio have caught up to Centerville. I grew up in Springfield in the 1980s. They did flag football in middle school. Tackling didn't start til HS. They had the little giants peewee football program in the summers, but otherwise, did not have the structured youth programs and facilities Centerville had. I think alot of the area schools back then were more like Springfield than Centerville. Wayne hadn't even won a playoff game before Minton. In some ways, Centerville's success in the 1970s and 80s came from being a pioneer in modernizing HS football, being innovative and leading the way on how things are done now. Back in the day, in the 1940s and 50s, Springfield was the premier Dayton area football program. But, they fell behind by the 1970s when they didn't keep up with the times.
I think there was a team called Chaminade (coached by Gerry Faust’s dad) that might have some disagreement with the claim that “Springfield was the premier Dayton area football program” in the 1940s and 50s.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Neither did I. This Fairfield team nearly beat Elder (lost by 3) and put 39 points on their defense. Good win Elks!
It’s going to be really difficult to draw accurate conclusions from games played after both teams have been eliminated from the playoffs— in some ways, these will be less indicative than even scrimmages played before the start of the season— as different teams will take different attitudes to the importance of these games—there will be teams that simply “phone it in”, after they lose in the playoffs— and do not give a good account of themselves in these late-season “consolation” games... I don’t know if that happened here— but i would not make too much of a win in these games.
 

Ohioriverboy42

Active member
I think there was a team called Chaminade (coached by Gerry Faust’s dad) that might have some disagreement with the claim that “Springfield was the premier Dayton area football program” in the 1940s and 50s.
It's true. But I was referring to public schools anyways. And check out the state poll history from back then.
 

4GX

Well-known member
It's true. But I was referring to public schools anyways. And check out the state poll history from back then.
Those would be the same polls that regularly voted Massillon the #1 team (even in years when Massillon lost a game), and yet never had any place for St. Ignatius or other Catholic schools that have won dozens of state titles in the playoff era— while Massillon has won precisely 0 titles in the playoff era.

The same was true in Southwest Ohio— the best teams in Southwest Ohio were Purcell (which featured Roger Staubach) and Chaminade— but that was unlikely to be reflected in the state polls— which were voted on by largely uninformed (or outright biased) newspaper reporters.

We saw the same idiocy in this year’s playoff seedlings, when they gave the voting process over to the coaches— the public school coaches chose to seed themselves FAR higher than would ever have been warranted by on-the-field results– and that has been borne out by the playoff results (GMC teams were seeded 1,2,4,5,6 in Region 4, but the low-seeded GCL teams have now gone 3–0 against those GMC teams, whose coaches colluded to underseed the GCL teams— and when all is said and done, the final tally will be 4-0, with a GCL team winning the Region, more than likely).., in other words, I doubt those state polls that you referenced were a true indicator of which teams were best in that era— the Catholic schools were chronically (and hindsight shows, unfairly) discounted in those polls.
 

Ohioriverboy42

Active member
Those would be the same polls that regularly voted Massillon the #1 team (even in years when Massillon lost a game), and yet never had any place for St. Ignatius or other Catholic schools that have won dozens of state titles in the playoff era— while Massillon has won precisely 0 titles in the playoff era.

The same was true in Southwest Ohio— the best teams in Southwest Ohio were Purcell (which featured Roger Staubach) and Chaminade— but that was unlikely to be reflected in the state polls— which were voted on by largely uninformed (or outright biased) newspaper reporters.

We saw the same idiocy in this year’s playoff seedlings, when they gave the voting process over to the coaches— the public school coaches chose to seed themselves FAR higher than would ever have been warranted by on-the-field results– and that has been borne out by the playoff results (GMC teams were seeded 1,2,4,5,6 in Region 4, but the low-seeded GCL teams have now gone 3–0 against those GMC teams, whose coaches colluded to underseed the GCL teams— and when all is said and done, the final tally will be 4-0, with a GCL team winning the Region, more than likely).., in other words, I doubt those state polls that you referenced were a true indicator of which teams were best in that era— the Catholic schools were chronically (and hindsight shows, unfairly) discounted in those polls.
Well, I didn't say the old Springfield High was the premier school in SW Ohio. I said the Dayton area. And they were regularly ranked very high in the state polls back then, finishing as high as #2 behind Massillon. And, the Greater Ohio League was considered the premier sports league in Ohio. And SHS was the only Dayton area school in the league. Middletown was more considered part of the Cincinnati region. But Middletown's reputation was more bball than football back then anyways. Regardless of whether you respect the pre-playoff polls, that's what was used back then and that's where the public perception came from. At that time, everyone in the greater Dayton area looked up to Springfield, not Chaminade.
 

America

Well-known member
Those would be the same polls that regularly voted Massillon the #1 team (even in years when Massillon lost a game), and yet never had any place for St. Ignatius or other Catholic schools that have won dozens of state titles in the playoff era— while Massillon has won precisely 0 titles in the playoff era.

The same was true in Southwest Ohio— the best teams in Southwest Ohio were Purcell (which featured Roger Staubach) and Chaminade— but that was unlikely to be reflected in the state polls— which were voted on by largely uninformed (or outright biased) newspaper reporters.

We saw the same idiocy in this year’s playoff seedlings, when they gave the voting process over to the coaches— the public school coaches chose to seed themselves FAR higher than would ever have been warranted by on-the-field results– and that has been borne out by the playoff results (GMC teams were seeded 1,2,4,5,6 in Region 4, but the low-seeded GCL teams have now gone 3–0 against those GMC teams, whose coaches colluded to underseed the GCL teams— and when all is said and done, the final tally will be 4-0, with a GCL team winning the Region, more than likely).., in other words, I doubt those state polls that you referenced were a true indicator of which teams were best in that era— the Catholic schools were chronically (and hindsight shows, unfairly) discounted in those polls.
State polls arent that impressive anymore but I do believe back in the 1940s-1980s that there was legit credibility to them by sports writers, coaches, and others. Now, it's all about reputation and hype.
 

4GX

Well-known member
State polls arent that impressive anymore but I do believe back in the 1940s-1980s that there was legit credibility to them by sports writers, coaches, and others. Now, it's all about reputation and hype.
I would say that, back then, it was exactly the same thing— Reputation and hype— I read a lengthy story written by a Massillon booster, describing (some) of the years that Massillon was voted #1–- it was supposed to convince readers of the appropriateness of Massillon being voted the poll champion regularly back then— ironically, I came away with exactly the opposite opinion— it convinced me that there were many years where the poll voters defaulted to Massillon at #1, even when there better options clearly available— some years Massillon was voted #1, with a loss to a team right behind them in the poll—indecipherable and inexplicable— unless one allows for the reputation and hype intruding into the process...

At least now, the thing gets all sorted out on the field— and one has to win on the field...I doubt that Springfield ever played Chaminade, in the 1940’s and 50’s—and I SERIOUSLY doubt that Springfield could (or would) have beaten Chaminade back then— but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Springfield was voted ahead of Chaminade regularly, if a Greater Dayton City poll existed in those days (and ahead of Purcell and Chaminade in a state poll)...

Much like the GMC coaches voted their own league’s teams to most of the top spots in the Region 4 playoffs this year, and seeded the GCL teams much lower than appeared warranted (based on both results and recent past history), when the coaches were given the one-year chance to do so (as the Harbin rankings were suspended for this year)— but then these same GMC teams have shown that they can’t beat even the bottom half of the GCL this year, despite seeding those GCL teams below their own league’s teams.
 

ELK Strong

Well-known member
It’s going to be really difficult to draw accurate conclusions from games played after both teams have been eliminated from the playoffs— in some ways, these will be less indicative than even scrimmages played before the start of the season— as different teams will take different attitudes to the importance of these games—there will be teams that simply “phone it in”, after they lose in the playoffs— and do not give a good account of themselves in these late-season “consolation” games... I don’t know if that happened here— but i would not make too much of a win in these games.
a Win is a Win against a quality program who has taken it to the Elks the last few years
 
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