BIGGEST JOKE IN HS SPORTS

jedthefish

Moderated User
count yourself extremely BLESSED Ohio players, club coaches and especially parents. Saw three of the 'better' HS teams in Pittsburgh area tonight and it was literally hideous, vomit inducing embarrassing soccer. (except for MY ECNL players of course). Between the soccer I have seen in Virginia and PA, FUCHS could possibly win a state championship in either state if Giss came back and coached them.
 

Gr8tS0ccr

Member
No one answered my first question...who do these Fall "not HS" teams play? Is supposed skill gap the only reason they don't play HS?
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
No one answered my first question...who do these Fall "not HS" teams play? Is supposed skill gap the only reason they don't play HS?
Other clubs in Ohio also have fall teams for HS-aged players.

CUP/CU or whatever it is called these days has a fall team that is not associated with the DA team. OP usually has one or two fall teams. The Internationals have a fall team. The Galaxies have a fall team. There are probably other clubs in Ohio that also have fall teams. In Indy I believe that FC Pride usually has a fall team. Carmel, Fire Jrs, or whatever it is called these days might have a team.

In many states HS soccer is a spring sport and will have teams that the teams in Ohio can play against. Fall HS-aged club teams in Ohio often attend the SLSG tournament that takes place in the late fall. There are other tournaments as well. SLSG attracts a lot of clubs from many states. There will be clubs from Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado, Michigan attending. Club teams from other states will probably also be there. Girls HS soccer is played in the spring in all of the states that I mentioned. There are other states that I didn't mention that also play in the spring or winter. Lastly, there will probably be other clubs there from states other than Ohio in which HS soccer is played in the fall but they happen to have fall teams for kids opting not to play for their HS team.

Kids play for a variety of reasons. Some may be at high schools that are in weak conferences and play against weak competition. For them they may feel that the club experience will be more helpful. Some may not like the coaches of the HS team or feel that playing on the HS team will embroil them or their parents, more likely, in political issues. Some may be coming back from an injury and feel that in the club environment they'll have a better chance to rehabilitate the injury and less of a chance to reinjure themselves (personally I don't agree with this but each kid and family must do what they feel is best for them). For the kids at the younger end, they may be "trapped" and be on a club team in the spring that is composed of kids that are playing HS soccer and, for whatever reason, the trapped kid is still in the 8th grade. That kid can play another sport at their middle school if they choose but if they want to still play soccer the options are limited. There are a lot of reasons that a kid may play for their club in the fall. many are criticized for doing it but all that matters is that the kid playing thinks it is best for them given their situation and they shouldn't be judged for their decision. Personally I don't like fall HS-aged club soccer but it's not for me or anyone else to judge what others do.

The quality is hit or miss. Some may play on HS teams that could beat the fall club teams. Other may play on HS-aged club teams that are a lot better than their HS team would be. Every situation is different.
 
When my Mia was at OE, she considered playing fall ball with the club (I'm not sure seriously). She'd represented her school for two years, seen close club teammates get injured in HS, and she didn't like her new coach. HS is not always rewarding as it can be a different kind of soccer and some players don't have a good relationship with their HS coach. There was a player who decided to play HS for the first time for her senior year (Ursaline?), and I think she's started more games at her power 5 college this year then her HS team.

Sometimes the grass is just greener, on the other side.
 

1000games

New member
Well said Rohbino ! You are spot on with the above assessment. Multiple Choices, multiple reasons.

So for those who troll about the blog world, don't villianize the girls for their decisions because of "rumors". Both choices, high school or Fall Club team - are reasonable and have benefits.
 

5x26

Member
The choice between high school and club should be the players. There are some top ranked HS programs with some awful coaches. I gotta think just how good could some of these schools could be with better coaching. I'm lucky in that my oldest plays Varsity HS and has solid coach who cares about the kids, played and knows the game, pushes them but doesn't feel the need to destroy their bodies or play favorites and the team still wins. She also does both Soccer and Cross Country, that the coach both supports and adjusts her level of training for.

My middle is on the fall team at OE and having Doug as her coach is awesome. Can't beat getting proper training and feedback. She'll likely play HS next year, but I know she'll miss Doug for those 3-4 months. If we were at some of these other schools I would strongly encourage her to play on the OE fall team. Some of these coaches have no business dealing with kids.
 

Ja Crispy

New member
I know a lot of girls that played HS and now play for Power 5 teams and many others start on their Mid Major colleges as Freshman. Anna Prodogil is killing it at Arkansas just as an example. There’s some residual high school rust that may happen going back to club but the truly good players can maintain their technical skills. To say they “lost” everything during high school means they didn’t practice on their own time to ensure they would remain sharp. It’s not that hard to retain certain skills and if you did lose some sharpness the good players snap back into form fairly quickly when they rejoin club. If they didn’t have a good club year I’d look at the schedule and see if they had tougher competition - that would cause them to score less goals. Are they missing players that made them look good? I’m just saying blaming HS ball for poor club performance might be BS.
Well said. Completely agree and great example with Anna P.

For others, it’s unfortunate to go around telling people at the club that their HS teammates sucked and the coaching sucks. Makes you stop and think how these kids are coming up with these opinions and how those thoughts were influenced.
 

Ja Crispy

New member
Well said Rohbino ! You are spot on with the above assessment. Multiple Choices, multiple reasons.

So for those who troll about the blog world, don't villianize the girls for their decisions because of "rumors". Both choices, high school or Fall Club team - are reasonable and have benefits.
 

Ja Crispy

New member
That’s why I said, IF true, then it’s sad. If it is true, then it is what it is. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck.
 

Ja Crispy

New member
When my Mia was at OE, she considered playing fall ball with the club (I'm not sure seriously). She'd represented her school for two years, seen close club teammates get injured in HS, and she didn't like her new coach. HS is not always rewarding as it can be a different kind of soccer and some players don't have a good relationship with their HS coach. There was a player who decided to play HS for the first time for her senior year (Ursaline?), and I think she's started more games at her power 5 college this year then her HS team.

Sometimes the grass is just greener, on the other side.
Great point.
 

Manmythlegeng66

Active member
The choice between high school and club should be the players. There are some top ranked HS programs with some awful coaches. I gotta think just how good could some of these schools could be with better coaching. I'm lucky in that my oldest plays Varsity HS and has solid coach who cares about the kids, played and knows the game, pushes them but doesn't feel the need to destroy their bodies or play favorites and the team still wins. She also does both Soccer and Cross Country, that the coach both supports and adjusts her level of training for.

My middle is on the fall team at OE and having Doug as her coach is awesome. Can't beat getting proper training and feedback. She'll likely play HS next year, but I know she'll miss Doug for those 3-4 months. If we were at some of these other schools I would strongly encourage her to play on the OE fall team. Some of these coaches have no business dealing with kids.
Hey 5x26 how has the fall OE teams looked in the fall? Interested because there seems to be a lot of talent playing this fall there. Is your middle a freshman this year or trapped?
 

1000games

New member
For others, it’s unfortunate to go around telling people at the club that their HS teammates sucked and the coaching sucks. Makes you stop and think how these kids are coming up with these opinions and how those thoughts were influenced.
Oh - so you took the Rumor comment personally.... Maybe you should ask the player what was said and what the opinion was...... Just a thought
 

Conan73

Member
I know a lot of girls that played HS and now play for Power 5 teams and many others start on their Mid Major colleges as Freshman. Anna Prodogil is killing it at Arkansas just as an example. There’s some residual high school rust that may happen going back to club but the truly good players can maintain their technical skills. To say they “lost” everything during high school means they didn’t practice on their own time to ensure they would remain sharp. It’s not that hard to retain certain skills and if you did lose some sharpness the good players snap back into form fairly quickly when they rejoin club. If they didn’t have a good club year I’d look at the schedule and see if they had tougher competition - that would cause them to score less goals. Are they missing players that made them look good? I’m just saying blaming HS ball for poor club performance might be BS.
This has become a tiresome debate. High school soccer is not a fun experience for every kid that participates. For kids that are playing at the elite club level, on average, they are getting quality coaching, quality competition, getting to travel throughout Ohio and other states, and play with teammates that they have been with for years. There are high schools out there that do not have quality coaching nor do will they have teammates and competition that are equal to what they see with club. Not every high school program has a lot of people coming out to the games either (often, it is just the parents and family members) -- for some schools, girls soccer is still viewed as a secondary sport. Importantly, a high school team is together once a year for 3 months or so whereas a club team is together year after year for 9 months or more -- so the camaraderie for some club teams is higher. Add to that, most college coaches do not scout high school games.

Now, it is true that some kids love their high school experience. As has been pointed out, they're can be fun in representing your school and playing under the lights (note that a lot of club games are played under the lights), playing before your classmates, etc. They can get their names in the paper and compete for a title. They can play with their friends (note again, that they also have friends on their club teams, and some cases they've been playing with those girls longer), etc.

For the kids that like it, they can continue to play high school. However, as I've pointed out, it is not fun for everyone. Those kids now have an alternative. They should not be attacked or ridiculed for making this choice.

Lastly, the move away from high school is no longer unique to soccer. It is starting to happen with baseball, softball, and basketball -- essentially, sports that have a develop club system where college coaches are devoting more and more time and attention
 

5x26

Member
Hey 5x26 how has the fall OE teams looked in the fall? Interested because there seems to be a lot of talent playing this fall there. Is your middle a freshman this year or trapped?
She's trapped. There are 3 teams, a true trapped 05 team that is mainly Academy players with 4 ECNL girls including my daughter, and 2 older teams with 04-01 girls from both Academy and ECNL as well as outside clubs. Mine plays randomly with the older teams as well. It's good, the level of competition is all over the board when you add in tournament teams and keepers seem to be an issue. The random super skilled mid or forward against a developing player who is at Center or outside back causes some big score splits. But most of the teams are coached pretty well and the fall league teams (Indy Fire, FC Pride, CUP, Internationals and OP) all play possession style soccer and don't play "hack a shaq" so I enjoy watching it more (not quite as much in tournaments vs random clubs). One of the Fall teams from Internationals is almost their complete 02 ECNL team and they were really strong. That's actually an understatement. I think the 3 teams have a combined 3 losses so far this year, But they also mix up the squads quite a bit. Mine has played every position except keeper so that changes things up too.
 

Manmythlegeng66

Active member
She's trapped. There are 3 teams, a true trapped 05 team that is mainly Academy players with 4 ECNL girls including my daughter, and 2 older teams with 04-01 girls from both Academy and ECNL as well as outside clubs. Mine plays randomly with the older teams as well. It's good, the level of competition is all over the board when you add in tournament teams and keepers seem to be an issue. The random super skilled mid or forward against a developing player who is at Center or outside back causes some big score splits. But most of the teams are coached pretty well and the fall league teams (Indy Fire, FC Pride, CUP, Internationals and OP) all play possession style soccer and don't play "hack a shaq" so I enjoy watching it more (not quite as much in tournaments vs random clubs). One of the Fall teams from Internationals is almost their complete 02 ECNL team and they were really strong. That's actually an understatement. I think the 3 teams have a combined 3 losses so far this year, But they also mix up the squads quite a bit. Mine has played every position except keeper so that changes things up too.
Sounds Great. I always wondered how good the OE fall teams were. Do you prefer the HS game or the OE fall game?
 

Conan73

Member
The author presents a one-sided argument. Instead of fighting against the concept that the number of kids skipping high school in favor of club (although the majority of kids are still playing for their respective high schools), maybe we should ask what high school soccer can do to encourage those kids to play high school instead. "Playing for something bigger than themselves" is not cutting it for some. Here are some ideas:

- require or at least encourage high school coaches to get their USSF coaching licenses. Every high school coach should aspire to get a D License. While it is no guarantee that it will make every one a good coach, it will lead to overall improvements

- allow high school soccer players to attend college ID camps during the season. If the OHSAA was really about the kids, allowing kids to get exposure to colleges during the season should not be blocked

- Limit the number of games to no more than 2 per week. The pros do this, with the exception of tournament weeks, and the NCAA does this. This will reduce wear-and-tear and decrease the risk of injury

- Form partnerships with local clubs. Stop fighting them. Acknowledge that the majority of a players development comes from club soccer. Invite the better club coaches to run training sessions. During the club season, high school coaches should attend their players club games to show support
 

CCHS93

Active member
The author presents a one-sided argument. Instead of fighting against the concept that the number of kids skipping high school in favor of club (although the majority of kids are still playing for their respective high schools), maybe we should ask what high school soccer can do to encourage those kids to play high school instead. "Playing for something bigger than themselves" is not cutting it for some. Here are some ideas:

- require or at least encourage high school coaches to get their USSF coaching licenses. Every high school coach should aspire to get a D License. While it is no guarantee that it will make every one a good coach, it will lead to overall improvements

- allow high school soccer players to attend college ID camps during the season. If the OHSAA was really about the kids, allowing kids to get exposure to colleges during the season should not be blocked

- Limit the number of games to no more than 2 per week. The pros do this, with the exception of tournament weeks, and the NCAA does this. This will reduce wear-and-tear and decrease the risk of injury

- Form partnerships with local clubs. Stop fighting them. Acknowledge that the majority of a players development comes from club soccer. Invite the better club coaches to run training sessions. During the club season, high school coaches should attend their players club games to show support
Very good ideas.
 
The article overrepresents a pretty obscure perspective. Power 5 kids shouldn't play high school? Most do and do fine. There isn't a big push to not play high school outside of the DA and even they seem to be coming to terms with it. Just an author looking for a story.
 
- allow high school soccer players to attend college ID camps during the season. If the OHSAA was really about the kids, allowing kids to get exposure to colleges during the season should not be blocked
Who is running ID camps during season? I've coached in 4 different states and work closely with a lot of coaches, I never see a college ID camp during a college season.

I'm not sure if there's complications from other states that play HS soccer in the winter or spring, but being a former college coach, an ID camp during my [fall] season while also having a HS season going on...nightmare.
 

1000games

New member
Who is running ID camps during season? I've coached in 4 different states and work closely with a lot of coaches, I never see a college ID camp during a college season.
I've seen numerous camp offerings in the HS season. Just today, this came in the mailbox ....

Greetings from Nashville!
As we approach our first clinic for the 2019/2020 cycle we are excited to be int he midst of our SEC season. Please
join us in 2 weeks as we take on LSU on Friday evening for our senior night Vanderbilt Football v Missouri at Vandy
Stadium and then our clinic on Sunday morning!

www.vandysoccercamps.com
Limited spots remain. Anchor Down and Go 'Dores!
Coach Ken


BD - not sure where you coached or when, but these days there are plenty of ID Camps in the fall....
 
I've seen numerous camp offerings in the HS season. Just today, this came in the mailbox ....

Greetings from Nashville!
As we approach our first clinic for the 2019/2020 cycle we are excited to be int he midst of our SEC season. Please
join us in 2 weeks as we take on LSU on Friday evening for our senior night Vanderbilt Football v Missouri at Vandy
Stadium and then our clinic on Sunday morning!

www.vandysoccercamps.com
Limited spots remain. Anchor Down and Go 'Dores!
Coach Ken


BD - not sure where you coached or when, but these days there are plenty of ID Camps in the fall....
The one ID camp from Vanderbilt is October 20. Toward the end of the state tournament for Ohio and Kentucky (possible date of the "sweet 16"). That date doesn't conflict with Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, or Virginia (only selected the few that may be within their target audience for that date). All those states either play HS soccer in the winter or spring.

UC -- June 15 and July 7
OSU -- none listed
X -- May 5 and July 28, none listed after
BGSU -- November 17
Miami (OH) -- November 24 and December 1
OU -- none listed

Could it just be that the Ohio schools recognize that ID camps aren't necessary during college AND high school season? Pretty nice of them to think about the players and not schedule something so mentally taxing like an ID can be to let the players focus on their HS season.

So, what I see here is...nothing.
 

BASESWIMPARENT

Active member
The author presents a one-sided argument. Instead of fighting against the concept that the number of kids skipping high school in favor of club (although the majority of kids are still playing for their respective high schools), maybe we should ask what high school soccer can do to encourage those kids to play high school instead. "Playing for something bigger than themselves" is not cutting it for some. Here are some ideas:

- require or at least encourage high school coaches to get their USSF coaching licenses. Every high school coach should aspire to get a D License. While it is no guarantee that it will make every one a good coach, it will lead to overall improvements

- allow high school soccer players to attend college ID camps during the season. If the OHSAA was really about the kids, allowing kids to get exposure to colleges during the season should not be blocked

- Limit the number of games to no more than 2 per week. The pros do this, with the exception of tournament weeks, and the NCAA does this. This will reduce wear-and-tear and decrease the risk of injury

- Form partnerships with local clubs. Stop fighting them. Acknowledge that the majority of a players development comes from club soccer. Invite the better club coaches to run training sessions. During the club season, high school coaches should attend their players club games to show support
I think that this response is fantastic. The reality is that college scholarships and/or being identified for the national team program is worth a lot of money in many ways. The biggest reason that kids play club instead of high school is because they want to secure those opportunities. Simply put, high school programs need to get better in terms of training and coaching (this goes for all sports that have a significant club component by the way). Coaches need to get their certs (if available), baseball, softball and volleyball coaches need to be involved their sports after their season and the whole thing needs to be a little more "professionalized." Because that is what you are asking the players to do when they have to make a choice. Do I want to; (in the middle of the most important developmental period of my athletic career) get away from professional training and exposure so I can I can represent my community and play with my friends but have to deal coaches that are nowhere near as qualified as my club trainers? Or do I want or need to continue my development and exposure with my club? Why does it have to be a choice between competence and relative incompetence? There is just too darn much on the line. The girls in LW that came back for their junior year are already established in the national program and have scholarships. Two of them had their offers in the 8th grade. These ladies are the exceptions. The highs school programs and coaches just need to get better and the choice will be a no brainer with all of them playing high school.
 
.
Top