One last thing, it’s awful funny how you guys throw Satan and sinner out towards others and then when somebody throws it back, you get all holy, through the whole debate really I’m just throwing counter punches
Beacons of light and closing/consolidating of parishes
- Thread starter pantherland
- Start date
THEONLYBOSS
Member
I'm just glad you have a place like Yappi to vent.
You don't want to keep this stuff bottled up inside or you'll explode and no one will know how to put Mr. question mark back together
This thread is too deep for me on the last few pages. However you have to give to the st. Martins folks trying to save the parish school even know the ship has sailed. Personally we have attended martins masses lately and you can sense that attendance is shifting up due to the annoucement.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
Its really simple when you think about it, they don't close stores (churches) that are doing good (people going to it). If people stop going to that store the owners realize it is poor performing and close it. When it close you don't get that store brand anymore. In other words you don't get Big K Cola at Walmart. They close the church, they close the school.
Analogies like that explain everything! The almighty dollar drives everything. Just sad to see it all go
Yes, so simple, I agree. Huge successful businesses like Zerox, Blockbuster and Kodak refused change and were left in the dust. On the other hand stores like Amazon morphed from a simple on line bookstore. At least we agree with the poor performing part when it comes to overall mass attendance.
Purplemojo
Well-known member
I am glad the church in Europe doesn't see the Church as simply a commodity. If they did, Notre Dame would have been torn down years ago and certainly would not be restored now after the fire. Yes, the churches in Europe are mostly empty on Sundays (sad but true) but the art, architecture and social fiber has been preserved. I am sure there are some narrowminded members of St. Dominic who would love to see St. William, close up or people in Lourds who are happy about St. Martins school closing and they absorb those neighborhoods for their school and parish. Think of the damage that would do to the neighborhood at large. Imagine St. William or St. Lawrence being torn down or abandoned. That would be too great a loss to everyone.
ElderHockeyDad
Active member
I attend St. Dominic and have never heard anyone wish that St. William would close. In fact, most people like myself believe it is one of the most beautiful churches in Cincinnati.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
If you don't use the product, why do you care if it closes?
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
Its not about money. IF people aren't going to Mass the church doesn't need to be open. If The church isn't open for Mass, close the schools. The schools depend on the church. Plenty of churches are open without schools. Look at St Simon.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
It absolutely is about money. Nobody in mass equals no money. No money means no repairs, maintenance, etc. Without the maintenance, the building literally falls apart and becomes a blight on the community, which turns more people away from the church.... Look at St. Mark or Our Lady of Perpetual Help.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
I will admit the church isn't run by the best people. But not going to church because of the priest is a bad argument.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
Yes, we do need money to keep the building up. If no one is in church no money is collected. It is sort of like the ticket to the game. Why do you think the Reds and Bengals charge to come watch them play?
cincifbfan
Well-known member
They charge money for tickets because they can. When the Bengals had issues selling tickets, they got rid of Marvin Lewis, gave Katie Blackburn more control, and drafted Burrow.
The Church is having issues getting people to show up and pay money. But they won't make any fundamental changes to give people a reason to show up.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
I don't know about you, but when I go to church, I worship God, not the priest. I know the priest and bishops aren't perfect. That is why I don't worship them.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
People in this thread have said they don't go to church because they don't like the priest.
The church was created by Jesus. They have taught the same teaching for 2000+ years. The church didn't change, the people did.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
The Church has changed quite a bit over 2000 years, just not much in the last 60 or so. And in not changing the past few decades, covering up unspeakable atrocities, being outright hypocritical on a regular basis, they have lost the people. And the Church refuses to even try to make amends with the flock that it drove away.
While the Church was indeed created by Jesus, it is run by humans. Humans who continue to act in the opposite ways of Jesus and causing division amongst people it claims to care about.
Bingo!
And what’s even worse on the way out the moneys in the bank accounts from the parish programs like PTA and Athletics go straight downtown with him.
it’s already been said a lot about attendance going down way down. I simply won’t go to a specific church if I don’t like how the priest represents the message being given at mass. I’d rather drive to a church in price hill or victory than go to jude. It’s a personal choice of where my family goes but my point is we have poor communicators of the church message in very large parishes that need a new direction or it will continue to decline at visitation and Ignatuis for example.
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
I would argue that the church has changed more in the last 60 years (Vatican II October 1962 to December 1965) than in the years before that.
The church wasn't perfect with the sex abuse scandal, but I have heard priest apologize many times. How many times do they need to apologize for someone else's actions?
cincifbfan
Well-known member
I'm really worried about your reading comprehension skills. I said the church hasn't changed in 60 years.... that was Vatican II. What has changed since then? How has the Church kept up with the times? Everything is a secret.... finances, personnel, conduct, why decision are made.
Apologies aren't worth anything. Actions speak louder than words. It's still happening. Our Bishop here covered up for a pervy priest and he wasn't punished at all, even though he violated all protocols put in place to prevent such things from happening. He actively moved this priest who had complaints regarding his conduct with children and moved him to the parish with the most kids. How about we figure out why these things are happening and actually try to make things right instead of deflecting and apologizing. How about the priests start calling out leadership for how poorly it was handled and continues to be handled. You think anyone cares about random priests apologies when nobody was actually held accountable? You think the congregations care that Archbishops and Bishops weren't even given slaps on the wrist after they knew what was going on and tried to cover it up? Nobody cares about empty half hearted apologies.
Every point you bring up, you are adding fuel to the fire as to why people are leaving the Church and you can't even see it. It's 2024, you can't just ask people to blindly follow you, and that you are morally superior, when your actions continuously prove otherwise.
EHS 2001
Moderator
Just a reminder that the Archdiocese of Cincinnati employed Geoff Drew in varying capacities (school teacher, parish music director, seminarian, priest) at multiple parishes and schools for pretty much his entire adult life and it took them decades to put a stop to what he did. Then after they had to finally admit how they hid his transgressions from the faithful they said their fall guy (Binzer) would be demoted and not have a regular assignment as punishment. Then a couple of years later once the heat is off, they assign him as a pastor of a parish family under Beacons of Light. The Vatican should have removed Schnurr, Binzer and everyone else in leadership at the Archdiocese for their repeated violations of their own policies.
Solid post, but now you’ll be labeled a lost soul, selfish, me me me person, lazy, moron and less angelic by Vincent and Boss
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
My parish release a financial report. Of course you have to come to Mass on the weekend when they hand them out to get one.
What you don't understand is that with out the Church, we have no schools. If you don't come to Mass on the weekends we have no need for the church, so we have no need for the schools.
2024-1965=59
Vincent and Regina
Well-known member
I will admit I forgot about Drew. What he did was awful. What Binzer and Schurr did to cover it up was just as bad. They should have been removed too. Kiffmeyer was awful at Elder, but he was defrocked in the wrong way and was still allowed to be a priest. These are awful crimes and sins of the church. The Archdiocese had over 200 parishes, I don't know what goes on in all of them.
I again go back to I don't go to church for the priest, bishop, or even pope. I go to church for God.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
I don't understand why you keep throwing out digs of me not attending Mass. I attend every single weekend. And the financial reports are so vague and don't really tell you much of anything.
There are Catholic schools not affiliated with any parish, so mass attendance doesn't impact those institutions at all. Elder being one of them, so try again. Every parish in the Archdiocese could shut down and Catholic schools would still exist. You don't seem to understand that.
So this isn't the 60th year since Vatican II ended? That must be New Math. And let me ask you again.....what fundamental changes has the Church instituted since then?
There's a reason Vatican II happened. The 60s were a time of radical new ideas and change and the Church realized that it had to adapt and change with the times. Well, society has evolved more rapidly each and every decade since the 60s, and the Church is just throwing their hands up wondering why people leaving.
cincifbfan
Well-known member
God is omnipresent and found everywhere..... so why do you need to go to a building with a priest, bishop, or pope to worship? The human aspect of Mass with the celebrant is of the utmost importance. That's a HUGE reason why Vatican II turned the priests to face towards the congregation and put the Mass into the languages spoken of the congregation. The Church realized the importance of the Human interaction between the congregation and the priests celebrating the Mass, so having a someone who isn't a human piece of garbage or just having someone that is relatable is really high on the priority list of people who wish to go to Mass or any church service in any other denomination. The Catholic Church teaches that the Priest is a mediator between God (all 3 forms) and man..... so yes, going to Church for a certain Priest makes a lot of sense. I want a good mediator between myself and the Devine, otherwise why go?