Ask the Ref?

green_genes

Well-known member
Are there for which basket each team attacks/defends in each half? I know teams are always attacking the goal on the same side as their bench in the 2nd half, but is this a rule? For gyms with bleachers behind the basket, is the home team's student section required to be at the same end as their bench?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Are there for which basket each team attacks/defends in each half? I know teams are always attacking the goal on the same side as their bench in the 2nd half, but is this a rule? For gyms with bleachers behind the basket, is the home team's student section required to be at the same end as their bench?
The rules dictate that each team's basket for practice (warm-up) before the game and for the first half is always the basket furthest from their bench. The location of the benches are determined by game management. (typically the home team)

Student sections are not covered in the rules. They are where they are ;)
 

CedarBuck92

Well-known member
The rules dictate that each team's basket for practice (warm-up) before the game and for the first half is always the basket furthest from their bench. The location of the benches are determined by game management. (typically the home team)

Student sections are not covered in the rules. They are where they are ;)
Sorry if this should be obvious, but are teams assigned benches for tournament games or is it first come first serve?
 

Zunardo

Well-known member
Trying to remember if I've seen this on an earlier post ..... Question on technical fouls issued after a game is over. This was about a minute after time had expired. Have never seen that before, was curious how it's administrated, and if there is any carry over into the next game

JV game, neck and neck. Team A wins on a 3 at the buzzer. Shot might have been late, but the nearest official signalled it was good, and that's all that mattered. . Both teams head for locker room. Team B head coach runs out to the official that made the call and has few choice words with him while they're both walking to the exit. They were almost at the exit door, then the official threw his hands up, ran back to the clock bench and spoke with the scorebook keeper at length, then he spoke to one of the school game administrators before exiting. I confirmed later with the scorekeeper that a technical was issued to the coach.

1. Since the game was over, does that coach's T carry over into his next game, so that he already has one technical charged, and the first one he gets during the next JV game gets him ejected?

1a. The JV head coach is also a varsity assistant - does that T affect his assistant status for the varsity game?

2. Could a player receive a technical in that same time frame? Same question as #1 - does it count for just that game, or does it carry over?

3. There were no free throws issued. Could there have been if the winning coach had been T'd, and it was a one- or two-point difference Would they pull both teams out of the locker room for that?

Guessing it doesn't happen often. Thanks in advance.
 
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AllSports12

Moderator
Sorry if this should be obvious, but are teams assigned benches for tournament games or is it first come first serve?
Game management (tournament director) determines those well prior to the games..... (that explains why you rarely see student sections behind the opponent's basket in the second half and behind the opponent's benches during the tourney)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Trying to remember if I've seen this on an earlier post ..... Question on technical fouls issued after a game is over. This was about a minute after time had expired. Have never seen that before, was curious how it's administrated, and if there is any carry over into the next game

JV game, neck and neck. Team A wins on a 3 at the buzzer. Shot might have been late, but the nearest official signalled it was good, and that's all that mattered. . Both teams head for locker room. Team B head coach runs out to the official that made the call and has few choice words with him while they're both walking to the exit. They were almost at the exit door, then the official threw his hands up, ran back to the clock bench and spoke with the scorebook keeper at length, then he spoke to one of the school game administrators before exiting. I confirmed later with the scorekeeper that a technical was issued to the coach.

1. Since the game was over, does that coach's T carry over into his next game, so that he already has one technical charged, and the first one he gets during the next JV game gets him ejected?

1a. The JV head coach is also a varsity assistant - does that T affect his assistant status for the varsity game?
No to both, unless the technical foul causes the coach to be ejected, then (by OHSAA regulations) that coach is done coaching for the day and may not return until two games at the level he was ejected in are played)
2. Could a player receive a technical in that same time frame? Same question as #1 - does it count for just that game, or does it carry over?
Yes he could, but just as in #1, it does not carry forward.
3. There were no free throws issued. Could there have been if the winning coach had been T'd, and it was a one- or two-point difference Would they pull both teams out of the locker room for that?
Yes.

If the game was tied at this time, then the extra period would be started with 2 FT's and a throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table.

If the differential was either one or two points, then Ft's would be attempted. Two successful FT's earns Team B a win. One successful FT means we are going to OT.
Guessing it doesn't happen often. Thanks in advance.

No it does not. I am aware of only one in the last 5 years.
 

green_genes

Well-known member
My father told me a story about the HS where he taught starting a tournament game with 12 technical foul shots because the opposing coach had written down the wrong uniform numbers in the scorebook. Their white uniforms were even numbered and the dark uniforms had odd numbers ( Player A was #20/#21, Player B was #22/#23, etc).

Is this plausible? It would have happened in the late 60s. Also, is the rule still the same today?
 

Ericles

Well-known member
I'm back again.

In our girls game last night, the visiting team got the tip to start the game. Under a minute to go in the 1st quarter, there is a held ball. Scorer's table and scoreboard both show home team (my school) to have the arrow, but they gave possession to the visiting team again. At the next dead ball, with my team having possession, I called the officials over to the table to tell them what happened. For some reason, they switched the arrow right away.

Although the issue was addressed within the acceptable time frame, we all know that it's not one of the 5 correctable errors according to the rule book, so it should have been left alone and we simply be given possession to start the 2nd quarter. It's rare to have an issue or controversy with the possession arrow anyhow, let alone twice in less than a week.😮
 
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Ericles

Well-known member
My father told me a story about the HS where he taught starting a tournament game with 12 technical foul shots because the opposing coach had written down the wrong uniform numbers in the scorebook. Their white uniforms were even numbered and the dark uniforms had odd numbers ( Player A was #20/#21, Player B was #22/#23, etc).

Is this plausible? It would have happened in the late 60s. Also, is the rule still the same today?
Not sure when, but that rule was changed some years back. There is now only one technical assessed no matter how many numbers are wrong.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
My father told me a story about the HS where he taught starting a tournament game with 12 technical foul shots because the opposing coach had written down the wrong uniform numbers in the scorebook. Their white uniforms were even numbered and the dark uniforms had odd numbers ( Player A was #20/#21, Player B was #22/#23, etc).

Is this plausible? It would have happened in the late 60s. Also, is the rule still the same today?
Even numbers for home jerseys and odd numbers for away jerseys were common occurrence up through the 70's and early 80's. So were the multiple technical foul free throws associated with the wrong numbers being placed in the book.

That went away in the early 90's
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I'm back again.

In our girls game last night, the visiting team got the tip to start the game. Under a minute to go in the 1st quarter, there is a held ball. Scorer's table and scoreboard both show home team (my school) to have the arrow, but they gave possession to the visiting team again. At the next dead ball, with my team having possession, I called the officials over to the table to tell them what happened. For some reason, they switched the arrow right away.

Although the issue was addressed within the acceptable time frame, we all know that it's not one of the 5 correctable errors according to the rule book, so it should have been left alone and we simply be given possession to start the 2nd quarter. It's rare to have an issue or controversy with the possession arrow anyhow, let alone twice in less than a week.😮
This is something that can be fixed all the way up to the time when the next alternating-possession throw in ends.

In other words, if Team A should have the arrow, but the arrow is in Team B's favor, we could play an undetermined period of time until we have the next AP Throw-In. The mistake can be corrected (the crew has to be 100% sure) up until that throw-in ends, which is defined as.....

- the passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds
- the passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, (except as in 7-5-7. c)
- the throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.
 

Ericles

Well-known member
This is something that can be fixed all the way up to the time when the next alternating-possession throw in ends.

In other words, if Team A should have the arrow, but the arrow is in Team B's favor, we could play an undetermined period of time until we have the next AP Throw-In. The mistake can be corrected (the crew has to be 100% sure) up until that throw-in ends, which is defined as.....

- the passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds
- the passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, (except as in 7-5-7. c)
- the throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.
I am confused by your explanation. Are you saying the officials handled the situation correctly or incorrectly? I should add that the next dead ball happened with 6.5 seconds left in the quarter. If that dead ball hadn't happened and the quarter ended, what would have been the proper way to proceed?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I am confused by your explanation. Are you saying the officials handled the situation correctly or incorrectly? I should add that the next dead ball happened with 6.5 seconds left in the quarter. If that dead ball hadn't happened and the quarter ended, what would have been the proper way to proceed?
Sorry for the delay in responding. I simply did not see your response.

The way I read your situation, yes, they handled it correctly as they can correct it up until the next alternating-possession throw-in ends. (please note, the ball can become dead multiple times and have no bearing on this)

Let's say we start the game with our jump ball and B secures possession. Unfortunately, the arrow is not properly set towards A.......... We play the entire first period with no held ball situations, or any other situation that results in an alternating-possession throw-in........ As we begin the second period, the official hands the ball to B and starts his 5 second count. Just after that count starts, A's head coach begins yelling that it's their ball. The official with the count sees the timer and the official scorer waving their hands from across the floor in an effort to get the official's attention..... the official stops play and is notified that since B won the opening tip and there were no AP throw-ins during the first period, A should have the opportuninity to attempt this throw-in to start the second period......

The officials would be correct in awarding A the throw-in.

A bit long winded, but an example of what I posted above.
 

eagles73

Member
Varsity game last night, visiting coach dropping F bombs left and right at refs, gets a T, mid of 3rd. Few minutes later during dead ball, coach is talking to ref who T’d him up. Ref blows whistle, walks to table and tells book to “rescind”, his words the T. The free throws had already been shot, but he allowed the coach to stand back up in box. Coach also continued to curse non stop rest of game. Has anyone ever seen this?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Varsity game last night, visiting coach dropping F bombs left and right at refs, gets a T, mid of 3rd. Few minutes later during dead ball, coach is talking to ref who T’d him up. Ref blows whistle, walks to table and tells book to “rescind”, his words the T. The free throws had already been shot, but he allowed the coach to stand back up in box. Coach also continued to curse non stop rest of game. Has anyone ever seen this?
First, a coach dropping F-Bombs with me (and most guys I know) have earned them an early exit.

Next, with regards to what you describe.......Unfortunately, I have seen it before. It was wrong then just as it is wrong now.

As a side note..... Something similar happened near the end of the Indiana/Iowa game a couple of weeks ago. The Iowa coach earned a T and it was subsequenty rescinded.... for a reason yet to be given by the Big 10.
 

Talk some sense

Active member
First, a coach dropping F-Bombs with me (and most guys I know) have earned them an early exit.

Next, with regards to what you describe.......Unfortunately, I have seen it before. It was wrong then just it is wrong now.

As a side note..... Something similar happened near the end of the Indiana/Iowa game a couple of weeks ago. The Iowa coach earned a T and it was subsequenty rescinded.... for a reason yet to be given by the Big 10.
IU fan here. Coach Fran and his player kid both went way over the line to the IU bench going ballistic (or normal in-game behavior for Fran). Wonder if the fact it would have been his second tech played a role?
 

FossyWriter8

Active member
Even numbers for home jerseys and odd numbers for away jerseys were common occurrence up through the 70's and early 80's. So were the multiple technical foul free throws associated with the wrong numbers being placed in the book.

That went away in the early 90's
Graduated from an Iowa high school in 1987. We had even numbers of home and odd numbers for away jerseys then.
 

Dragon72

Active member
Odd situation that happened last nite. A player transferred into a school but with the elgibility rules, he was allowed to play in the first 11 games. He isn't elgible for rest of the season. He isn't listed in scorebook. He was in the pregame warm-up line. Yes, you guessed it, he dunked. The team was leaving the court to go back into the lockeroom. They didn't call a technical because they were not sure of how to handle it. The officials called me after the game and I told the officials that by allowing him to be part of warmups, he was acting as part of the team and would be subject to penalty but I haven't heard of this and I am not %100
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Odd situation that happened last nite. A player transferred into a school but with the elgibility rules, he was allowed to play in the first 11 games. He isn't elgible for rest of the season. He isn't listed in scorebook. He was in the pregame warm-up line. Yes, you guessed it, he dunked. The team was leaving the court to go back into the lockeroom. They didn't call a technical because they were not sure of how to handle it. The officials called me after the game and I told the officials that by allowing him to be part of warmups, he was acting as part of the team and would be subject to penalty but I haven't heard of this and I am not %100
Officials aren't involved with who is or isn't ineligible, so let's talk about what they observed.....

.....which is an illegal pre-game dunk.....

When that happens, we notify the coach of the infraction, advise that the player (remember, we do not know eligibility status) has been assessed a technical foul, a team foul will be assessed, and the heach coach will be assessed an indirect technical foul (which causes him to lose his coaching box privileges for the entire game).

Now, when we report this to the scorer, he tells us that that player is not in the scorebook.... If prior to the 10:00 mark, we can add that player to the book with no penalty. If this happens after the 10:00 mark, we'd have to add that player to the book and assess an administrative technical foul..... (on top of the penalties for the dunk)

Since the player is ineligible, I suspect you will be told that fact. There are two choices, 1) add the player as noted above or 2) Note in the book that a team member was guilty of the infraction. (the penalty to the coach and team remains). A game report to the OHSAA should be filed after the game describing what happened, what you were told and how you proceeded.

The problem with the whole situation is that under OHSAA Bylaws, a student athlete ineligible to participate in any interscholastic sports contests, shall not be dressed in full uniform for any such contests and shall not participate in pre-game warmups during the student’s period of ineligibility. There are potential severe reprocussions regarding this player participating (and ultimately violating game rules) in the warm ups..... All this will be handled by the OHSAA staff.

As far as what happened on-court...... The action should have been penalized as if it were a "normal" situation. Start with the opponent shooting two free throws for the techncial foul followed by a throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table.
 

JackEd

Well-known member
I have to sit through all my sons Freshmen games and listen to the same two morons popping off all game about the horrible officiating (I know). Play on monday night that we have all seen a thousand times, Player A1 dives after and possesses a loose ball and consequently slid across the floor. He didn't attempt to get up or even roll around. Needless to say the officials didn't call a walk and those goofs went ballistic.
 
Officials aren't involved with who is or isn't ineligible, so let's talk about what they observed.....

.....which is an illegal pre-game dunk.....

When that happens, we notify the coach of the infraction, advise that the player (remember, we do not know eligibility status) has been assessed a technical foul, a team foul will be assessed, and the heach coach will be assessed an indirect technical foul (which causes him to lose his coaching box privileges for the entire game).

Now, when we report this to the scorer, he tells us that that player is not in the scorebook.... If prior to the 10:00 mark, we can add that player to the book with no penalty. If this happens after the 10:00 mark, we'd have to add that player to the book and assess an administrative technical foul..... (on top of the penalties for the dunk)

Since the player is ineligible, I suspect you will be told that fact. There are two choices, 1) add the player as noted above or 2) Note in the book that a team member was guilty of the infraction. (the penalty to the coach and team remains). A game report to the OHSAA should be filed after the game describing what happened, what you were told and how you proceeded.

The problem with the whole situation is that under OHSAA Bylaws, a student athlete ineligible to participate in any interscholastic sports contests, shall not be dressed in full uniform for any such contests and shall not participate in pre-game warmups during the student’s period of ineligibility. There are potential severe reprocussions regarding this player participating (and ultimately violating game rules) in the warm ups..... All this will be handled by the OHSAA staff.

As far as what happened on-court...... The action should have been penalized as if it were a "normal" situation. Start with the opponent shooting two free throws for the techncial foul followed by a throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table.
For clarification, IF this did happen after the 10 minute mark, is it automatically another T for not being the book? Or does the coach have the option of leaving the player out to avoid the administrative technical?
In effect, could the coach save his team 2 shots by saying "he's ineligible, don't put him in the book"?

BTW, these strange scenarios are why I read these forums, keep up the good work!
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
Officials aren't involved with who is or isn't ineligible, so let's talk about what they observed.....

.....which is an illegal pre-game dunk.....

When that happens, we notify the coach of the infraction, advise that the player (remember, we do not know eligibility status) has been assessed a technical foul, a team foul will be assessed, and the heach coach will be assessed an indirect technical foul (which causes him to lose his coaching box privileges for the entire game).

Now, when we report this to the scorer, he tells us that that player is not in the scorebook.... If prior to the 10:00 mark, we can add that player to the book with no penalty. If this happens after the 10:00 mark, we'd have to add that player to the book and assess an administrative technical foul..... (on top of the penalties for the dunk)

Since the player is ineligible, I suspect you will be told that fact. There are two choices, 1) add the player as noted above or 2) Note in the book that a team member was guilty of the infraction. (the penalty to the coach and team remains). A game report to the OHSAA should be filed after the game describing what happened, what you were told and how you proceeded.

The problem with the whole situation is that under OHSAA Bylaws, a student athlete ineligible to participate in any interscholastic sports contests, shall not be dressed in full uniform for any such contests and shall not participate in pre-game warmups during the student’s period of ineligibility. There are potential severe reprocussions regarding this player participating (and ultimately violating game rules) in the warm ups..... All this will be handled by the OHSAA staff.

As far as what happened on-court...... The action should have been penalized as if it were a "normal" situation. Start with the opponent shooting two free throws for the techncial foul followed by a throw-in at the division line opposite the scorer's table.
"I'm sorry Mr. Coach (opposing team), no, neither myself or anyone on my crew saw anyone from the other team dunking during pregame - I'm not really sure what you're talking about coach.....but are your players properly equipped? Let us know, on timeouts fulls/30s...and good luck today coach!" 😂
 

AllSports12

Moderator
For clarification, IF this did happen after the 10 minute mark, is it automatically another T for not being the book? Or does the coach have the option of leaving the player out to avoid the administrative technical?
In effect, could the coach save his team 2 shots by saying "he's ineligible, don't put him in the book"?

BTW, these strange scenarios are why I read these forums, keep up the good work!
The act is illegal and must be penalized. Merely leaving the guilty party out of the scorebook does not absolve the team from the illegal act(s) and the penalites associated with them.

As noted prior, issue with the dunk and the technical foul pales in comparison to the potential issue with the team allowing an ineligible player to dress and participate in pre-game warm-ups. (again, not the game officials' purview)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
"I'm sorry Mr. Coach (opposing team), no, neither myself or anyone on my crew saw anyone from the other team dunking during pregame - I'm not really sure what you're talking about coach.....but are your players properly equipped? Let us know, on timeouts fulls/30s...and good luck today coach!" 😂
Yeah, not a wise option ;)
 

coltfan76

Well-known member
Team A hits a 3 with 10 seconds left to go up by 1. Team B grabs the ball out of the net and takes off on a fast break. Fast break is interrupted by a fan of team A storming the court. Team B is awarded a throw in at half court. Feels like like there should have been a technical assessed. What say you experts?
 

serpico

Well-known member
I believe this was addressed before but I cannot find it. A player, from behind the arc, lobs the ball into the low post. B defender tips it and it goes directly through the hoop without touching anyone else. Should it count for three points?
 
A player gets fouled getting a defensive rebound in the double bonus situation. At the same time another player on the team that was fouled goes down with an injury away from the play. The injured player gets subbed out. Who takes the free throws?

In the game I was at tonight the officials made the player that was subbed in take the free throws. Everyone was lined up and the official made the fouled player leave the free throw line and instructed the sub to take the line. The coach was then given a technical for telling the officials that the player that was fouled should be taking the shots. Whats the explanation for making the sub take the shots?
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Team A hits a 3 with 10 seconds left to go up by 1. Team B grabs the ball out of the net and takes off on a fast break. Fast break is interrupted by a fan of team A storming the court. Team B is awarded a throw in at half court. Feels like like there should have been a technical assessed. What say you experts?
Rule 2-8-1 addresses situations where a fan(s) interrupt the game. The rule provides an avenue for officials to penalize unsporting behavior by the fans. Great caution is urged however in situations, as rare that they may be. We have to be sure that we do not unjustly penalize a team for said behavior. We also have to be 100% sure that this "fan" is actually a supporter of Team A. (might sound elementary, but I have personally witnessed the opposite..... and more recently, see the prank involving an Uber Eats driver during a recent NCAA basketball game)

In your situation, if we are certain that this individual was a supporter of Team A, then a team technical foul would be in order. In more severe cases, the awarding of points would not be out of the question.

Below is the Case Book verbiage that addresses this.

2.8.1 SITUATION: What guidelines should be exercised by the officials when spectators’ actions are such that they interfere with the administration of the game?

RULING: The rules book states “the official may rule fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game.” It is significant to note the word used is “may.” This gives permission, but does not in any way imply that officials must call technical fouls on team followers or supporters for unsporting acts. Thus, while officials do have the authority to penalize a team whose spectators interfere with the proper conduct of the game, this authority must be used with extreme caution and discretion. While the authority is there, the official must rarely use it, because experience has demonstrated that calling hasty technical fouls on the crowd rarely solves the problem and may, in fact, result in penalizing the wrong team because the official may not have proper knowledge as to which team's supporters were responsible for the unsporting act.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I believe this was addressed before but I cannot find it. A player, from behind the arc, lobs the ball into the low post. B defender tips it and it goes directly through the hoop without touching anyone else. Should it count for three points?
No, this is a two-point goal as this does not meet the definition for a try for goal.
 
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