Another Weekend Of Youth Basketball.... Another Weekend Of Fights

CasualFan24 said:
Director of officiating for OHSAA Beau Ruggs literally just confirmed this - the state of Ohio has lost 3300 officials in the last 10 years. Doesn't sound like a lot over 10 years but it is. Especially when you consider the multiple sport officials that were included in that number....the number of games those 3300 officials were potentially covering is huge.....
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I am currently a soccer official and previously had my umpire and basketball license as well. In my experience, basketball and baseball officials get it the worst. For the money paid per game, it was not worth the verbal abuse taken by fans, coaches, and now players becoming just as bad as they mimic how the adults around them act. Are officials perfect? Not by a long shot, but there is no respect shown anymore.

I have talked to a number of basketball officials who have stopped doing high school games altogether and only do collegiate games now. They would rather drive 3-5 hours and do a college game than go down the street and do a varsity high school game.
 
There are a number of reasons why people become an official/umpire. Love of the game, wanting to give something back to the community or some simply want the extra money (in my area, you can make a lot more money working JH and pee wee games then working varsity). The reasons why somebody gets out of officiating is usually simple. The veterans get out because of work changes and physical reasons while the newcomers get out mainly because of abuse by parents and also young coaches. Not everybody is cut out to be an official. The retention rate for new officials is extremely low. Few youngsters get out because of physical issues, it the mental aspect that is so demanding.
 
vamp2syd said:
The kid was obviously safe. I don't think it was close.... the ump got it right.

I hope that guy who struck the ump gets jail time and never is allowed to work with kids again.

I quit baseball as a youth because of the adults who were involved in it. They took all the fun out of the game. Don't swing until you get two strikes. The worse thing was the run rule. Game is over in the 4th inning because of run rule and yet there is still an hour until the next game starts. An empty baseball diamond when we could of continued to play. We did not care that much about the score we just wanted to play and they took that away from us.

We just got together without adults and started to play in parks. Much more fun and we were able to officiate our games without fighting. All kids, different ages and different playing abilities all with a common goal of just wanting to play the game without adult interference.
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I agree. I played basketball before travel ball so we played whenever and wherever in the summer - indoors and out. Sometimes took a group of neighborhood guys to a different park to mix it up.
 
Talk some sense said:
I agree. I played basketball before travel ball so we played whenever and wherever in the summer - indoors and out. Sometimes took a group of neighborhood guys to a different park to mix it up.
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I did the same…all ages at the park. It taught you so much that school ball didn’t. To keep the court you had to win….to get on the court you had to be darned good…you had to be able to shoot and you had to guard a guy…no help side…keep your butt in front and play D…I coached for a long time and could never teach what guarding a college player when you are 16 could!
 
Sickening - once again, why are we putting our kids in this environment every weekend?

This idea that kids are going to "fall behind" if they don't do this every weekend is a rouse for your money. STOP SELLING YOUR KID'S CHILDHOOD OUT WITH THIS GARBAGE!

There are PLENTY of constructive, positive and developmental ways for your kids to get better without continuing with this stupidity every weekend. Stop the madness people.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
Sickening - once again, why are we putting our kids in this environment every weekend?

This idea that kids are going to "fall behind" if they don't do this every weekend is a rouse for your money. STOP SELLING YOUR KID'S CHILDHOOD OUT WITH THIS GARBAGE!

There are PLENTY of constructive, positive and developmental ways for your kids to get better without continuing with this stupidity every weekend. Stop the madness people.
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Way to take a monumentally misinformed and paranoid stand on a few isolated incidents.... this isn't common folks... you all clearly don't understand how many youth tournaments in all sports happen every weekend... you're far safer at a youth sports tournament than many other common activities that none of you question. Get over yourselves and stop assuming that ALL of it is bad because a few idiots get thrown in the mix.
 
MCGal said:
Way to take a monumentally misinformed and paranoid stand on a few isolated incidents.... this isn't common folks... you all clearly don't understand how many youth tournaments in all sports happen every weekend... you're far safer at a youth sports tournament than many other common activities that none of you question. Get over yourselves and stop assuming that ALL of it is bad because a few idiots get thrown in the mix.
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Your take is the one that is monumentally misinformed. These things RARELY happen during school events and one could argue there is more opportunity because there is something going on at the schools almost every single night. These tournaments happen on the weekends only, at the earliest they start on a Thursday, and there is an assault, fight, shooting, attempted shooting every single weekend somewhere. And that doesn't even account for the number of people that get thrown out of these events and it doesn't escalate from there.....

The fact of the matter is that there are issues with fans at every single "AAU" event for some reason or another....
 
Society has changed so much in the last 25 years. It used to be the almost all youth sports were on the local level (the Little League World Series is an exception). Parents have yelled at officials and umpires in the past but it was over when the game was over. In our present age, confrontation is the normal. The big difference today is that schools don't tolerate the problems for the most part and the travel tournaments (not only AAU) seem to almost encourage it by doing nothing (as long as the check cleared).
 
MCGal said:
Way to take a monumentally misinformed and paranoid stand on a few isolated incidents.... this isn't common folks... you all clearly don't understand how many youth tournaments in all sports happen every weekend... you're far safer at a youth sports tournament than many other common activities that none of you question. Get over yourselves and stop assuming that ALL of it is bad because a few idiots get thrown in the mix.
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It's very common - where have you been?

Maybe not a shooting every weekend - but that's the extreme case. At every event, there is terrible behavior. It's a terrible environment for developing kids. In fact, it's not an environment for developing kids. It's a powder keg for desperate parents trying to do everything they can to get their kids "noticed". That desperation and stress is why there are so many incidents.

Exactly the reason why NIL at the high school level is absurd. It will only make these type of situations become more commonplace. The enticement of free money will make people even more nuts.
 
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I really wish high school coaches would do more to organize structured and supervised open gyms with schools in the city over the summer. It would be good competition for the kids, parents wouldn't necessarily have to attend, it would be a positive environment as coaches can help the kids, and would allow kids to respect their opponents in a more laid back atmosphere.

IMO, it would provide better development than AAU.

I understand AAU is necessary for kids with aspirations to play in college, but there's so many kids that think they can get there but have no realistic chance and should honestly just focus on getting better instead.
 
I wish all the AAU/Summer circuit programs and tournaments are run the way the one McGal is involved with.....

Unfortunately, that simply not the case.
 
High schools try to give each sport its own season. Football and Volleyball in the fall, basketball and wrestling in the winter and baseball,softball and track in the spring. By having the AAU (and similiar organizations) basketball tournaments in March, April and May, we are making players decide to give up one sport for another. There are a few kids that benefit by playing one sport year around but the number of players receiving schorarships are few. The sport that you are good at 12 or 13 may not be the sport you are good at 17 or 18. The pressure that is put on the young players to play only one sport and to play the "pay to play" tournaments is not my idea of sports.
 
AllSports12 said:
I wish all the AAU/Summer circuit programs and tournaments are run the way the one McGal is involved with.....

Unfortunately, that simply not the case.
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I agree with this. Seems that when the AAU, other Tournament Directors and Staff are visible to all during the Tournament there is a whole lot less non sense.
 
You guys are literally taking single bad cases and acting like it's all tourneys and teams everywhere and that's just simply untrue. It's not even close to a majority. Yes some issues need addressed but you're insulting and disrespecting the VAST MAJORITY of us who do this stuff the right way.
 
I mentioned years ago that AAU is a "necessary evil" and I get it everyone wants their child to be "elite" but in reality there's only a handful that are. So essentially, if you don't look the part 6'4" or above or if you're under 6'4" you have to be exceptional at shooting or a quick PG to go "big time" and playing on the EYBL circuit, other than that it's truly a waste of money and time. If you don't look the part you still can get scholarship money just not "big time" or D1 money however, you can look the part or fit the profile for a D2 on down.

I've always compared AAU event to a circus or carnival like atmosphere.
 
It never used to be like this but a couple things happened to cause the change. The root of the changes started at big exposure events that were actually getting college coaches in attendance. The officials called the games tight just the same as they would a high school game - it was the college coaches that actually asked the officials to let them play because they wanted to get a good look at the players and what they could play through in order to see if they would be prepared for a more physical game at the next level. This unfortunately trickled down to the lower level, weekend warrior events you see at your local communities every weekend, where there is not a college coach in sight. The change in how these games were/are officiated was the start of a lot of these issues. Admittedly, the officials don't do a good enough job managing these games.

The 2nd main reason, is societal change. We live is a different world now - the days of "toughen up buttercup" are over. If you don't like something, cry loud enough and some Doctor or Politician will back you and suddenly we have a movement.....
 
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MCGal said:
You guys are literally taking single bad cases and acting like it's all tourneys and teams everywhere and that's just simply untrue. It's not even close to a majority. Yes some issues need addressed but you're insulting and disrespecting the VAST MAJORITY of us who do this stuff the right way.
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The issue is....that the VAST MAJORITY DON'T do this stuff the right way. In reference of course to the people running the tournaments.

You don't really see many issues at the true exposure events like the ones in Indy, DC, Chicago, etc....but at the community based events which happen every weekend at your local middle/high school - its more rare for the event organizer to have a clean day with no issues and not have to escort people out of the building than it is for them to be dealing with ejections.....There is a higher percentage of days where someone is getting thrown out than days where there are no issues...
 
CasualFan24 said:
The issue is....that the VAST MAJORITY DON'T do this stuff the right way. In reference of course to the people running the tournaments.

You don't really see many issues at the true exposure events like the ones in Indy, DC, Chicago, etc....but at the community based events which happen every weekend at your local middle/high school - its more rare for the event organizer to have a clean day with no issues and not have to escort people out of the building than it is for them to be dealing with ejections.....There is a higher percentage of days where someone is getting thrown out than days where there are no issues...
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Exactly...

Of the total games played, the vast majority are not the elite national events. (they cannot afford to have this crap happen) The "regional" events and all the weekend crap events are where the problems occur.... It's also where the vast (95%) majority of the officials, who are leaving in droves, work.....

Discounting these videos that I post as "that's not what really happens out there" does a disservice to those it happened to.... And believe me, unless something dramatic happens..... it's just a matter of time until it happens to you.
 
The advent of the Sports Complexes has contributed to the problems also. High schools/middle schools are much more particular about who uses their facilities. The Complexes - with multi courts available - seem to be the locations at where the trouble occurs. I agree that the big tournaments with college coaches attending seem to be better managed. I think the case the more talented players almost play against each other each week. Most players and parents don't want to make fools of themselves in front of college coaches. But the tournaments that don't have the stars, the parents seem to be out of control. No, every tournament doesn't have major issues but one tournament that has officials assaulted or parents carry guns is one too many.
 
Vet Observer said:
Hang with this. This is an audio interview with John Higgins--yes the same John Higgins who referees high D1 college basketball games--on his experience of officiating a recent freshman AAU game and a 4th grade game. Its about 15 minutes long.

kxno.iheart.com

How This NCAA Ref Knows We Are Doomed As A Society | KXnO

Des Moines Sports Station, 1460 KXnO, and Now on 106.3 FM!
kxno.iheart.com kxno.iheart.com
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Also the same John Higgins that had his life threatened and business almost ruined by a group of Kentucky fans.
 
100% Pathetic fighting at a game. So Pathetic!!!

People who are clueless, most living through their kids, most who probably never played themselves, and it gets to the point of being physical in the stands, REALLY? Like I said, just Pathetic!!!
 
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