A Time To Die: The OCC (Ohio Capital Conference)
- Thread starter CMH FB
- Start date
CMH FB
Well-known member
I’m still waiting for reasons, anyone, to explain the purpose of being in the OCC other than to help for scheduling. No one ever seems to have an answer.
If we're gonna throw out random division ideas...
Division 1
Marysville
Delaware
Olentangy
Olentangy Berlin
Olentangy Liberty
Olentangy Orange
Division 2
Dublin Coffman
Dublin Jerome
Dublin Scioto
Hilliard Davidson
Hilliard Darby
Hilliard Bradley
Division 3
Westerville Central
Westerville North
Westerville South
Big Walnut
Thomas Worthington
Worthington Kilbourne
Division 3
Upper Arlington
Gahanna
Pick Central
Pick North
New Albany
Groveport Madison
Grove City
Division 4
Newark
Lancaster
Logan
Canal Winchester
Westland
Central Crossing
Teays Valley
Reynoldsburg
Division 1
Marysville
Delaware
Olentangy
Olentangy Berlin
Olentangy Liberty
Olentangy Orange
Division 2
Dublin Coffman
Dublin Jerome
Dublin Scioto
Hilliard Davidson
Hilliard Darby
Hilliard Bradley
Division 3
Westerville Central
Westerville North
Westerville South
Big Walnut
Thomas Worthington
Worthington Kilbourne
Division 3
Upper Arlington
Gahanna
Pick Central
Pick North
New Albany
Groveport Madison
Grove City
Division 4
Newark
Lancaster
Logan
Canal Winchester
Westland
Central Crossing
Teays Valley
Reynoldsburg
The LCL addition of Mount Vernon next year is going to make travel a little more difficult. Right now, in the Buckeye Licking Valley will be competing against three D2 schools and two D3 schools on a regular basis as a D4 school. It will be interesting to see if they choose to pivot in the future. As far as future additions go, I dont see New Albany wanting in, but I would like to see these 3 schools join...Newark, Tri Valley, & Sheridan. I know basketball is essentially why Newark is in the OCC, but they belong in the LCL.
Buckeye Division
Licking Heights
Watkins Memorial
Granville
Newark
Tri Valley
Zanesville
Mount Vernon
Cardinal Division
Licking Valley
Heath
Sheridan
Newark Catholic
Northridge
Utica
Lakewood
Hey, longtime yappster, first time football poster...saw this thread, read some replies and wanted to add to the conversation...
Howerever,
Once upon a time as schools split/were splitting, many school districts didn't want their high schools to play each other because they didn't want to split the community in terms of attitudes, etc. Westerville was the only one that had a rivalry game every year between North and South. It wasn't until 2005-06 (around that time-ish) did other districts jump on board and embrace this idea of inter-city games. I graduated in 2002 from Reynoldsburg, many of the communities now had not split or only split to 2 schools during my time (Hilliard and Dublin). Many split off not long after I graduated.
To the topic:
The traveltime comment is laughable, travelling anywhere in Greater Columbus on a Friday afternoon isn't going to be fun, no matter what league you're in. I coached at Canal Winchester when we made the trips to Big Walnut, New Albany, Newark, etc. and they weren't that bad. Delaware Hayes is only one we didn't do when I was there. Sure, Friday rush hour traffic sucks heading to those places, but at least it's on a major roadway the majority of the time. I currently coach wrestling in the OHC, our closest opponent is 30min away on state routes and back country roads.
For the actual topic, winning the OCC meant something when I was still in school, Reynoldsburg was a founding member, so there is that sentimental reason as to why I would not want to see the OCC completely disassemble. However, given the current climate of school districts growing, other founding members no longer in the league, I can see why the argument to break-up has traction. The worst thing, from the outside looking in at this point, is the 4 year re-alignment rule. That was not a thing when I was in HS, we only re-aligned when Darby was formed and Olentangy joined in '97-'98. Then I don't think re-alignment happened again until Central Crossing formed? Changing for competitive reasons is a dumb excuse as anyone who follows HS sports, being competitive can change so quickly in those 4 years, and some cases, year to year.
Heelinohio
Active member
Outstanding! How did we end up with today's disaster?
That drive from Scioto to Kilbourne is a nightmare…
ghsknightsfan
love the Knights and Grey Ghosts!
great question! but as always no one goes with the logical answer..
That’s a Hard Rd to Drive.
Greenwave38
Member
The reason Logan is in is they applied to the MVL , LCL and Msl and didnt get in. This was their only choice. Next year they join newark, lancaster, teays valley, pick central
Reynoldsburg, Canal , groveport.
Mount Vernon will join the LCL big division (buckeye) in 2024. That makes 12 teams 6 per division
Has the Licking County League considered changing their name since they are continuing to expand their footprint, or is it a brand name like the Big Ten???
Winnersville
New member
Apologies for bumping this thread, but wanted to add that I agree with the OP. In my opinion, the OCC could be split up into several smaller, regional leagues that'd benefit the student athletes, families and fans, and the school districts as a whole. For starters, take a look at the northside. You could create a 14-school conference centered around the Dublin, Olentangy, Westerville, and Worthington districts. New Albany and Upper Arlington could round it out to create two 7-school divisions, north and south, of schools who see each other as cultural and institutional peers:
North Division
Berlin
Central
Liberty
North
Olentangy
Orange
South
South Division
Coffman
Jerome
Kilbourne
New Albany
Scioto
Thomas Worthington
Upper Arlington
Each school could play six divisional games and then a seventh 'north vs south' interdivisional game at the end of the regular season based off W/L standings, with the top teams from each division competing for the conference championship. Additionally, this realignment would solve several issues highlighted in the thread:
- All schools from the same district would belong to the same division, decreasing travel time and strengthening local rivalries
- Although divisions would be based off geography, not enrollment, the north and south would be balanced in regards to D1/D2 schools (5-6 D1 schools, 1-2 D2 schools); less reshuffling means the divisions would become recognizable with time
- The longest distance between two schools in either division would be 30 mins, with the average traveling distance hovering around 17 mins
North Division
Berlin
Central
Liberty
North
Olentangy
Orange
South
South Division
Coffman
Jerome
Kilbourne
New Albany
Scioto
Thomas Worthington
Upper Arlington
Each school could play six divisional games and then a seventh 'north vs south' interdivisional game at the end of the regular season based off W/L standings, with the top teams from each division competing for the conference championship. Additionally, this realignment would solve several issues highlighted in the thread:
- All schools from the same district would belong to the same division, decreasing travel time and strengthening local rivalries
- Although divisions would be based off geography, not enrollment, the north and south would be balanced in regards to D1/D2 schools (5-6 D1 schools, 1-2 D2 schools); less reshuffling means the divisions would become recognizable with time
- The longest distance between two schools in either division would be 30 mins, with the average traveling distance hovering around 17 mins
Call it the Tri County League...?
The sad thing is in the 1980s and first half of the 90s Big Walnut vs Olentangy was phenomenal in both football and boys basketball. Boys basketball 1990-1995 were absolute wars on the hardwood.
ghsknightsfan
love the Knights and Grey Ghosts!
i like where your head is at with this in terms of keeping schools in the same district in the same divisions. i think the OCC is a good league and there is a way to make it succeed. here is what i proposed:
Big School West:
Jerome
Coffman
Marysville
Bradley
Davidson
Darby
Big School Central:
Thomas Worthington
Upper Arlington
Olentangy
Liberty
Berlin
Orange
Big School East:
Westerville Central
New Albany
Gahanna Lincoln
Reynoldsburg
Pick Central
Pick North
Small School North:
Scioto
Kilbourne
Delaware Hayes
Big Walnut
Westerville North
Westerville South
Newark
Small School South:
Logan
Teays Valley
Lancaster
Canal Winchester
Groveport
Grove City
Central Crossing
with the 3 “big school” divisions, play 5 division games in weeks 6-10. in weeks 4-5, play a crossover game with a team from each divisions.
in the small school divisions, you get 6 division games and 1 crossover with the other division played sometime between weeks 4-10, with one crossover happening each week. Newark vs Lancaster can always be week 10.
Maple_City_Fan
Well-known member
I apologize for going off topic, but I love the thread title, "A Time to Die " I think someone has been watching too much Chuck Norris and Richard Lynch in "Invasion USA "
CMH FB
Well-known member
I don’t think people understand. The OCC doesn’t need realignment, once Olentangy realizes the league needs them more than they need the OCC, they’re gone and it will be as soon as #5 is built. However that’s another 6-7 years away.
Westland will leave next and expect CC to follow suit. Dominoes will continue to fall. The issue is there is a massive disparity in enrollment and demographics continuing to grow. Some schools are treated like it’s the 90s still and expected to compete with programs that have 5-6x the amount of athletes…some of the expectations lies in their own school district. It’s a mess.
Westland will leave next and expect CC to follow suit. Dominoes will continue to fall. The issue is there is a massive disparity in enrollment and demographics continuing to grow. Some schools are treated like it’s the 90s still and expected to compete with programs that have 5-6x the amount of athletes…some of the expectations lies in their own school district. It’s a mess.
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Power in numbers. You get 34 schools whipped into agreeing to pay 15-20% more the going rate, per game, for what other leagues are paying the refs and the result is more security in getting refs to stick with you. The OCC has a very strong reputation in officiating circles compared to other area leagues.
The other critical element is organizational power. All of these districts are pretty similar to each other. There isn’t much utility in breaking it all up into smaller tribes when the majority of the schools’ business is otherwise in the OCC to begin with, even if it’s nominal out-of-conference play versus schools elsewhere under the OCC banner.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I doubt anyone cares about Westland leaving, much like Franklin Heights’ departure. For the longest time Westland was bundled with the likes of Coffman, Davidson and UA. They were nary the least bit competitive, and it was a widely held opinion then that they needed a new division of the OCC that met their competitive needs better — or leave.
Gahanna is the biggest school in the OCC with 2300 students and Big Walnut is the smallest with 1300. Where do you get 5-6x times the athletes from. Maybe 2x but not 5-6x.
CMH FB
Well-known member
Gahanna has an enrollment of about 700 more kids than Westerville Central who’s in their OCC. There is no need for them to be in same conference, it shows in all sports.
To ask a very simple question again. Why do all of these schools feel the need to be in the OCC? What’s the benefit other than scheduling?
Too tired for this conversation anymore. Look forward to Friday. See you later!
To ask a very simple question again. Why do all of these schools feel the need to be in the OCC? What’s the benefit other than scheduling?
Too tired for this conversation anymore. Look forward to Friday. See you later!
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
My take is I think eventually you’ll see the OCC reduce in numbers, and there will be probably a second league to form. That might not happen for another decade, at least.
Right now, as it stands, one thing that shapes some of the OCC situation is transportation infrastructure. Working with the reality that is in the now, being risk-averse of what could stand to change in the future. It’s hard to try and write a conference realignment that lays large on what MORPC and ODOT is planning to get done. It’s partly why there’s a future division clustered together of BW, Hayes, Kilbourne, two Westervilles and a geographic odd man out in Scioto (this was going to be the division that had FH & Westland) — can’t really plan some idea with more schools deeper south in the 270 blueprint with an expectation that the extra exit on 71 b/w 36-37 and Polaris gets built.
A more pertinent example of the now: the Buckeye Division with CW, GM, Lanc, Logan, Newark, Reynoldsburg, PC, and TV. The current state of affairs is getting buses to CW, GM, Lanc and PC is difficult for the schools inside/along 270 north of 70. Inbound traffic into Fairfield County meshes with outbound Columbus traffic: 270 south is a mess from Main St down to Alum Creek. The junctures at 70 and at 33 are both absolute messes; 33 eastbound b/w 270 and Pickerington Road isn’t conducive for the bus travel of districts further up 270 and further west on the southwest side.
Right now, as it stands, one thing that shapes some of the OCC situation is transportation infrastructure. Working with the reality that is in the now, being risk-averse of what could stand to change in the future. It’s hard to try and write a conference realignment that lays large on what MORPC and ODOT is planning to get done. It’s partly why there’s a future division clustered together of BW, Hayes, Kilbourne, two Westervilles and a geographic odd man out in Scioto (this was going to be the division that had FH & Westland) — can’t really plan some idea with more schools deeper south in the 270 blueprint with an expectation that the extra exit on 71 b/w 36-37 and Polaris gets built.
A more pertinent example of the now: the Buckeye Division with CW, GM, Lanc, Logan, Newark, Reynoldsburg, PC, and TV. The current state of affairs is getting buses to CW, GM, Lanc and PC is difficult for the schools inside/along 270 north of 70. Inbound traffic into Fairfield County meshes with outbound Columbus traffic: 270 south is a mess from Main St down to Alum Creek. The junctures at 70 and at 33 are both absolute messes; 33 eastbound b/w 270 and Pickerington Road isn’t conducive for the bus travel of districts further up 270 and further west on the southwest side.
So I call you out for false claims and you are too tired. Lol
RollingTrain
Well-known member
Westland should have been a package deal with Franklin Heights a few months ago. I don't know what the district was thinking.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Might be a stretch to accuse SWCS of thinking during the last 15 years as it relates to OCC participation for those two schools.
devilbuck98
Member
Was it the district that kept WL in? Or did the new conference not want to admit a school that large? WL is listed @ 1,800 students on the OCC Wiki. FH is listed at 1,300 (which sounds high to me).
I could see conferences not wanting to admit a school like WL based on their size.
I guess that's another question for this thread.. is there an option out there for all these 1,500 plus enrollment schools other than the OCC?
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
The league in question also didn’t want to play a school with less than 300 students in it, so a) who knows what they want (although it’s an open secret what they would like) and b) who cares what they want?
No.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
You’re not wrong. But, like, in the case of Franklin Heights and Westland, they’re both just destined to be uncompetitive and their difficulties extend beyond conference. I’m not sure Franklin Heights gets fixed playing Bexley (even though their football is not good), Buckeye Valley (yeah let’s see how long this CBL concept lives with them), Cols Academy, or Whitehall (the only school they’re going have a common denominator with — even though Whitehall does more and has more organization.) Playing Ready is going to be a kick in the testicles on the regular for Heights.
Westland’s demographics are difficult. Not even having enough girls to field a basketball team for last year’s tournament is a prime example.
— —
Central Crossing does seem like a wildcard.
There is a direct correlation between enrollment and available athletes. The larger your enrollment the more athletes in that pool of kids. I would suggest to you that for every 50 boys you have in enrollment you will have 5-6 really good athletes and another 5-6 role players.
What plays a larger role in this is how many sports you offer. The more sports the more you waterdown your talent base.