Because teams like Hoban, Toledo Central Catholic, and Glenville, will move up to higher division, making a more competitive playing field across the state in every division.
Which is the point of competitive balance.
A Simple Solution To The Competitive Balance Issue
- Thread starter Snowbelt Man
- Start date
Which is the point of competitive balance.
Ginn Academy is for the entire city, and only athletes living in the Glenville attendance zone can play for Glenville.
It's a loophole, sure, but it's not breaking any current rules.
As for competitive balance, I like Indiana's system. 4 points for a state title, 3 for runner up, 2 for regional title, 1 for regional runner up. 6 points in a 2 year span, you move up. 2 points in that higher division, you stay there. 1 or 0 you get moved back down.
This would mean the perennial powers like Hoban, TCC, Glenville would likely all get bumped up, but could also eventually lead to Marion Local (who breaks zero rules but has basically made D7 totally unwatchable. I'm serious when I say Good job Flyers though) could end up as high as D5 likely.
It's not perfect of course, as one good class could push a public into a division they can't compete in for 2 years once that class graduates. But it keeps the elite moving up while not punishing those that really haven't won anyway.
This would mean the perennial powers like Hoban, TCC, Glenville would likely all get bumped up, but could also eventually lead to Marion Local (who breaks zero rules but has basically made D7 totally unwatchable. I'm serious when I say Good job Flyers though) could end up as high as D5 likely.
It's not perfect of course, as one good class could push a public into a division they can't compete in for 2 years once that class graduates. But it keeps the elite moving up while not punishing those that really haven't won anyway.
topperbounce
Defend the Hill
What are everyone’s thoughts on @Snowbelt Man’s suggestion above? I personally don’t think it’s a bad idea.
And please, let’s all forget that he even mentioned Glenville in his original post. It’s not even applicable to what he’s suggesting above, it’s a whole different topic.
Thavoice
Well-known member
He gave it the proper substance. Stupid idea.
That would put 117 student Lutheran East and 119 student Mooney in D1 when straight enrollment says they're D6. Harvest Prep, who doesn't even win titles at D5, would be D2.
It's too much punishment and way overthinking the situation.
All you have to do is say why
Oil Filter
Well-known member
It would move Harvest Prep from DV to DII. Think they could hang in DII? 7 other schools would move from DV to DIII.
It would move 8 schools from DIV to DI. Think they could hang with St. Ed?
Hell public Northwood, who went 3-7 this year and was one of the undefeated who missed the playoffs that led to the 16 team system, would be moved from D5 to D3.
goshengophers
Active member
It was in the first competitive balance vote several years ago amd was soundly defeated. Many of the no voters specifically mentioned this part of the proposal.
It is probably the most interesting way of separating private and public w/out separating private and public, which appears to be a line the sand OHSAA will never allow regardless how member schools may (or may not) feel.
I am kind of with Worm02. Just get rid of CB entirely. Or separate private vs. public. Pick one. But quit trying to "manufacture" equity with costly administrative boondoggles that avoids the real issue.
I don't know where you are getting 517, when I check out NCES it has 317 it also has grade breakdown. https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/schoolsearch/school_detail.asp?Search=1&Miles=10&Zip=44117&ID=390437805414
Oil Filter
Well-known member
That's not really the crux of the loophole, as it's the same as kids who are home-schooled, etc. The loophole is that it appears that not every Glenville kid at GA is counted, but only the ones who play. These kids can only play for Glenville. That they don't choose to play should be immaterial; they're no different than kids who are enrolled at Glenville and choose not to play.
OHSAA defines where kids can play. In most cases, the kids don't have a choice. If you wanted to make this truly comprehensive, OHSAA would count every one of them, whether they are enrolled at the school, at a different school, or home-schooled. If a kid can only play for a single school, s/he is part of that school's talent pool irrespective of participation.
simkon
Well-known member
The problem is that any students that Glenville wants on it's team in the other city schools of Cleveland or at Ginn Academy, they can produce esentially falsefied paperwork proving they live in the Glenville zone as is convenient but the ones they don't want they don't have to count against them if they aren't good athletes. They are basically exploiting a loophole and falsefying paperwork to essentially cherry pick all the good athletes from Cleveland without having to be in a higher division.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
You can see the ODE numbers here.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
That's a different assertion altogether.
simkon
Well-known member
That was including junior high apparently Ginn Academy has some program for 7th and 8th grade as well.
That is a bs accusation but goes to my point about making bs rules that make people want to find workarounds and loopholes.
I don't think Glenville gives a rats butt about CB but I could see a family (any school) trying to avoid sitting out 2nd half of a season. Which basically flies in the face of OE legislation and school choice.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
That's the elephant in the room. It is unclear how OHSAA's policy of rendering a student ineligible after transferring is consistent with either the intent or the letter of the law which specifically prohibits a public school from establishing a policy to deter transfers. The OHSAA policy clearly does just that. A school's membership in OHSAA makes OHSAA bylaws de facto school policy. How does one reconcile the OHSAA bylaw with the ORC?
They'd say what they always say. That OHSAA is a "voluntary org" so love it or leave it.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
But that's not the issue. The issue is that by joining, they have (in theory) already breached the law. So, OHSAA can keep their bylaws as is without worry, but any public school which agrees to be bound by them may be in violation.
The proper solution is the easy solution: dump the half-season restrictions. Go where you want, play where you go.
RollRedBuckeye
Well-known member
For starters, where would D1 go? NCAA D3?
So penalize teams who have sucess - great idea. So for example a team like Kirtland who does everything right and developes players from a young age will need to move up if they win a title and move up again if they repeat. What if a team has a great junior class that leads the team to back to back titles - you punish the less talented kids behind them ? Teams change yearly you cannot just move teams up to make it easier for the mediocre teams. Maybe the teams that are not having sucess need to do the things the successful teams are doing.
BleedingO&B
Member
I don't understand the obsession with CB...adjustments are already made for CB...schools move up and down divisions due to CB or EMIS numbers changing, that's why Liberty Center always moves back and forth between DV and DVI. Glad a separate thread was made for this discussion so it doesn't keep coming up in others 
Oil Filter
Well-known member
How's about every team that finishes above .500 moves up a division, while every team that finishes below .500 moves down. 5-5? Stay where you were.
Week by week, if needed?
They get rewarded with an opportunity to play for a more prestigious state championship. If these teams are having that big of a drop off in talent then they aren’t going that far in the lower division playoffs anyway.
But I ask again who are these hypothetical teams?
It’s the same teams winning every year
Oil Filter
Well-known member
No, and there's the rub... If taken to extremes, a kid could change schools at halftime and run across town.