2023 Final X

Y

Yankeefan33

Well-known member
It's finally time, the biggest domestic event of the year- Final X, aka the finals to world team trials. It may not seem like it, but this is really the beginning to the 2024 Olympics.

Step 1: 2023 Final X
Step 2: 2023 World Championships
Step 3: 2024 Olympic Trials
Step 4: 2024 Paris Olympics

Winning Step 1 puts you on the fast track towards that Olympic bid, and it all starts this weekend. The biggest match in men's freestyle is Kyle Snyder vs J'Den Cox, a battle between two Olympic medalists and 3x NCAA champs. In men's freestyle, 16 of the 20 wrestlers won at least one NCAA title, 14 of the 20 made an age level world team (wrestle freestyle/greco!), nine of the 20 have a world medal, and 7 of the 20 have an Olympic medal.

57 kg: Thomas Gilman vs Zane Richards
61 kg: Vito Arujau vs Nahshon Garrett
65 kg: Yianni Diakomihalis vs Nick Lee
70 kg: Zain Retherford vs Tyler Berger
74 kg: Kyle Dake vs Jason Nolf
79 kg: Jordan Burroughs vs Chance Marsteller
86 kg: David Taylor vs Aaron Brooks
92 kg: Michael Macchiavello vs Zahid Valencia
97kg: Kyle Snyder vs J’den Cox
125 kg: Gable Steveson vs Mason Parris
 
 
Women's freestyle should be just as interesting, with a great mix of veterans and young talent. 76kg seems especially interesting- Kennedy Blades handled Adeline Gray at their last meeting, but Gray had just returned from a hiatus (I believe she had twins) and looked much better at trials. Olympic medalists Helen Maroulis + Sarah Hildebrandt and world champs Jacarra Winchester, Amit Elor and Dom Parrish will also be competing this weekend.

50 kg: Sarah Hildebrandt vs Audrey Jimenez
53 kg: Dominique Parrish vs Katie Gomez
55 kg: Alisha Howk vs Jacarra Winchester
57 kg: Helen Maroulis vs Xochitl Mota-Pettis
59 kg: Michaela Beck vs Jennifer Page
62 kg: Kayla Miracle vs Adaugo Nwachukwu
65 kg: Mallory Velte vs Macey Kilty
68 kg: Forrest Molinari vs Emma Bruntil
72 kg: Amit Elor vs Joye Levendusky
76 kg: Kennedy Blades vs Adeline Gray
 
Mens' Greco has two medals at worlds in the last two Olympic cycles, with Adam Coon and the retired G'Angelo Hancock bringing home hardware at upper weights. Ten names will try and add to that list, with Coon competing against age-group champ Cohlton Schultz. Junior world champ Kamal Bey is back as well, competing against Aliaksandr Kikiniou, who won world bronze with Belarus 14 years ago and is 43 years old! He also competed in the Olympics (2004) before fellow Final X competitor Audrey Jimenez was born.

55 kg: Brady Koontz vs Dalton Duffield
60 kg: Dalton Roberts vs Ildar Hafizov
63 kg: Hayden Tuma vs Xavier Johnson
67 kg: Robert Perez III vs Alejandro Sancho
72 kg: Justus Scott vs Patrick Smith
77 kg: Kamal Bey vs Aliaksandr Kikiniou
82 kg: Spencer Woods vs Ryan Epps
87 kg: Alan Vera vs Zachary Braunagel
97 kg: Josef Rau vs Christian Dulaney
130 kg: Cohlton Schultz vs Adam Coon
 
Wanted to add, the "prelims" to Final X are the true third place matches in the three styles. These matches may seem meaningless to some, but they are extremely important to the athletes. Finishing third at the weight provides extra funding and training opportunities to these wrestlers that they do not receive with a fourth place finish. Additionally, wrestlers who are 23 and younger can qualify for the U23 world team with a win in these matches. In men's freestyle that's Ohio State's Sammy Sasso and Mizzou's Keegan O'Toole.

In men's freestyle in the extra matches!:
- Nine total NCAA titles
- U23 Silver, U23 Bronze, 2x U20 Gold, 2x U20 Silver, 3x U20 Bronze, U17 Bronze
- World silver medalist in Fix

Women’s freestyle

50 kg - Alyssa Lampe Sunkist Kids, vs. Erin Golston, New York AC
53 kg – Samara Chavez, Team Tornado WC, vs. Felicity Taylor, Iowa Women’s WC/Titan Mercury WC
57 kg - Alexandra Hedrick, USOPTC/Titan Mercury WC vs. Amanda Martinez, Cardinal WC/Titan Mercury WC
59 kg - Maya Nelson, Sunkist Kids, vs. Brenda Reyna, Army WCAP
72 kg – Rose Cassioppi, New York AC/USOPTC vs. Brooklyn Hays, Minnesota Gold WC
76 kg – Dymond Guilford, USOPTC/Titan Mercury WC vs. Kylie Welker Iowa Women's WC/ Titan Mercury WC

Greco-Roman

60 kg - Randon Miranda, Rise RTC vs. Dylan Koontz, Dubuque RTC/Titan Mercury WC
63 kg - Sammy Jones, Sunkist Kids WC vs. Dylan Gregerson, Brunson UVRTC
72 kg - Noah Wachsmuth, New York AC, vs. Michael Hooker, Army WCAP
77 kg - Payton Jacobson, Sunkist Kids WC, vs. RaVaughn Perkins, New York AC
82 kg - Ben Provisor, New York AC, vs. Barrett Stanghill, Minnesota Storm
130 kg - Donny Longendyke, Minnesota Storm, vs. Brandon Metz, North Dakota

Men’s freestyle

57 kg - Nick Suriano, Sunkist Kids WC, vs. Jakob Camacho, Wolfpack WC/Titan Mercury WC
61 kg - Daton Fix, Cowboy RTC/Titan Mercury WC, vs. Austin DeSanto, Hawkeye WC/Titan Mercury WC
65 kg – Joseph McKenna. Pennsylvania RTC/Titan Mercury WC, vs. Matthew Kolodzik, New York AC/NJRTC
70 kg – Sam Sasso, Ohio RTC/Titan Mercury WC, vs. Alec Pantaleo, Cliff Keen WC /Titan Mercury WC
74 kg – Vincenzo Joseph, Sunkist Kids WC vs. Keegan O’Toole, Tiger Style WC
79 kg – Alex Dieringer, Cliff Keen WC/Titan Mercury WC, vs. David McFadden, Pennsylvania RTC/Titan Mercury WC
92 kg - Kollin Moore, Ohio RTC/Titan Mercury WC vs. Nathan Jackson, New York AC/New Jersey RTC
 
Thanks Yank! Who would be your top 5 P4P wrestlers for Men's and Women's Freestyle up to this point?
 
Hokie99 said:
Thanks Yank! Who would be your top 5 P4P wrestlers for Men's and Women's Freestyle up to this point?
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Obviously there'll be a lot of different opinions on that question. I'm assuming this was thrown out to all the Yappis and not just to Yankee. I'll go w/ the current GOATS, JB in MFS (7 OLY/World golds and 3 other World medals) and Adeline Gray in WFS (6 World golds and 3 other OLY/World medals). Both are getting near the end of their prime with JB at 34 and AG at 32. But JB is coming off a 2022 gold at Worlds and AG got a World gold in 2021. AG seems more at risk to losing her spot a t Final X, but I wouldn't be shocked w/ both winning this week or neither winning this week. Blades is incredible and Marsteller is getting better and better. Blades is only 20 and is going to take the 76kg spot at some point as the next great USA WFS 76kg. Not sure if AG can hold her off or not. If I was a betting man, I'd pick Blades. And at MFS 79kg, I'll stick w/ JB over Marstellar.

And, yeah, I went w/ GOAT status over current P4P, but I'll stick w/ it. And I'm ignoring the rest of the top 5 for now. Might check in later.
 
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I think GOAT status is pretty clear at this point.

I asked P4P in large-part to get more familiar with the female side of things. Who is up and coming which matches to keep a close eye on, who may be out right now due to injury, etc.
 
Hokie99 said:
I think GOAT status is pretty clear at this point.

I asked P4P in large-part to get more familiar with the female side of things. Who is up and coming which matches to keep a close eye on, who may be out right now due to injury, etc.
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The women's team is interesting for sure, and at a point where the transition from the older guard to the young guns is in progress. Wrestlers like Maroulis and Gray both made two Olympic teams and have been the best two women's wrestlers in USA history. Tamyra Mensah-Stock won Olympic Gold in 2021, but recently retired from wrestling. The young wrestlers are really good, and have had success at the youth level:

- Audrey Jimenez is 18 and won U20 silver last year
- Katie Gomez is a U17 champ and U20 bronze
- Adaugo Nwachukwu was a U20 bronze medalist last year
- Macey Kilty is primed for a breakout, she's a U17 world champ, U20 double silver, and U23 silver
- Amit Elor is the best young USA wrestler since Kyle Snyder
- Kennedy Blades is a U20 world champ

The future is very bright, with the obvious caveat of Japan is a force in women's wrestling. They won 4/6 golds in 2021 and 2016 and 3/4 in 2012 and 2008 in the Olympics. I do think the USA women are getting closer, especially at the upper weights where wrestlers like Elor and Mensah-Stock have wins at Worlds over Japanese wrestlers. Lightweights are a little bigger gap, but getting wrestlers like Jimenez and Gomez to worlds every year to see the talent can only benefit the USA.
 
For those that like all the information in one thread, here is the scheudle.

Final X Competition Schedule - Saturday, June 10​

*All times listed are Eastern Standard Time

12:00 pm - Doors Open

12:30 pm - True third matches

2:00 pm - Final X Round 1

6:00 pm - Final X Round 2 & Round 3 Where Applicable
 
A top 5 P4P is tough for MFS. You’ve got 7 OLY/World champs in 6 wt classes. If your #1 is the guy most likely to win a gold this year, then a lot depends on if RUS shows up. If they do, then perhaps Taylor, Steveson, or JB (non OLY wt) might be your pick. But DT will always be challenged by Yaz, Steveson took a year off (and had a nail biter in the OLY finals), and JB will be 35 by the time Worlds come around. And Snyder has to beat a World champ just to make the team. My Top 5 to win a gold in no particular order:
Dake
JB
Taylor
Snyder (if no RUS)
Steveson

If RUS is there I’ll swap Snyder with my wild card Vito.
 
Yankeefan33 said:
The women's team is interesting for sure, and at a point where the transition from the older guard to the young guns is in progress. Wrestlers like Maroulis and Gray both made two Olympic teams and have been the best two women's wrestlers in USA history. Tamyra Mensah-Stock won Olympic Gold in 2021, but recently retired from wrestling. The young wrestlers are really good, and have had success at the youth level:

- Audrey Jimenez is 18 and won U20 silver last year
- Katie Gomez is a U17 champ and U20 bronze
- Adaugo Nwachukwu was a U20 bronze medalist last year
- Macey Kilty is primed for a breakout, she's a U17 world champ, U20 double silver, and U23 silver
- Amit Elor is the best young USA wrestler since Kyle Snyder
- Kennedy Blades is a U20 world champ

The future is very bright, with the obvious caveat of Japan is a force in women's wrestling. They won 4/6 golds in 2021 and 2016 and 3/4 in 2012 and 2008 in the Olympics. I do think the USA women are getting closer, especially at the upper weights where wrestlers like Elor and Mensah-Stock have wins at Worlds over Japanese wrestlers. Lightweights are a little bigger gap, but getting wrestlers like Jimenez and Gomez to worlds every year to see the talent can only benefit the USA.
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So based on your response I am going to guess Hildebrandt/Jimenez may be the equivalent to Snyder/Cox at Final X?
 
bdhof said:
A top 5 P4P is tough for MFS. You’ve got 7 OLY/World champs in 6 wt classes. If your #1 is the guy most likely to win a gold this year, then a lot depends on if RUS shows up. If they do, then perhaps Taylor, Steveson, or JB (non OLY wt) might be your pick. But DT will always be challenged by Yaz, Steveson took a year off (and had a nail biter in the OLY finals), and JB will be 35 by the time Worlds come around. And Snyder has to beat a World champ just to make the team. My Top 5 to win a gold in no particular order:
Dake
JB
Taylor
Snyder (if no RUS)
Steveson

If RUS is there I’ll swap Snyder with my wild card Vito.
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But why is Snyder docked because he has maybe the Goat freestyler of all time in his weight class? How many times has he lost to guys other than Sad in major competitions? Very very few and far between. He’s not any worse if a wrestler no matter if Sad is there or not. P4P to me means how they are wrestling right now, as such JB may be the US goat but he’s not above Snyder, Taylor, Dake, etc he couldn’t even win his ideal weight class and 79 is always super weak internationally as most non Olympic weights are.

Not sure where to put the women other than Elor #1. Heck TMS would be a clear #2 for me but she retired. Blades very well maybe #2 but I can’t put her there yet until she wins a title.
 
Hokie99 said:
Is there a glaring "weak" weight at the women's level similar to Men's 65kg on the national level?
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Not really. The USA women are pretty balanced throughout their lineup. I would say they have more success as weights go up- other countries tend to skew light on talent.
 
Hokie99 said:
So based on your response I am going to guess Hildebrandt/Jimenez may be the equivalent to Snyder/Cox at Final X?
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Blades/Gray is probably equivalent in terms of talent to Snyder/Cox. In terms of previous accolades, nobody is a good comp. Hildebrandt/Jimenez and Maroulis/XMP (and Blades/Gray) may end up being all-time matchups when we look back in 10 years.
 
Found these on Rokfin.

CADETS
1686085968175.png

World Teamers By State:
Ten Tied w/ 1 - AZ, CA, CO, IL, MO, NJ, NY, OH, OK, WI

Finalists By State:
4 - PA
2 - CA, IL, NJ, OH
1 - AZ, CO, IA, IN, MO, NY, OK, WI

World Teamers By College:
Five Tied w/ 1 - Michigan, Missouri, Ohio St., OK State, Penn St.


JUNIORS
1686086217436.png

World Teamers By State:
2- IN, MO
1 - GA, MD, MN, OH, PA, WI

Finalists By State:
2- GA, IN, MO, OK, PA
1 - IA, ID, IL, KY, MD, MN, NE, NY, OH, WI

U23
1686086414753.png

World Teamers By State:
PA - 2
8 tied w/ 1: FL, IL, KS, NJ, OH, OK, TN, UT

Finalists By State:
PA - 3
2 - IL, IN, OK, OH
1 - CT, FL, KS, NJ, NY, NC, TN, UT, WI

SENIORS
1686086514935.png

Finalists By State:
3 - NY, PA
2 - CA, IN, MD
1 - IA, IL, MN, MO, NJ, NC, OH, OR

Finalists By College:
5- Penn St.
4 - Cornell
2 - Nebraska
1 - Arizona St., Illinois, Iowa, Lock Haven, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, NC State, Ohio St.
 
I think Coach Koll is quietly (that's how he does everything) building something at Stanford. Look what he built Cornell into. Stanford has some solid recruits coming in too.
 
Divided42 said:
But why is Snyder docked because he has maybe the Goat freestyler of all time in his weight class? How many times has he lost to guys other than Sad in major competitions? Very very few and far between. He’s not any worse if a wrestler no matter if Sad is there or not. P4P to me means how they are wrestling right now, as such JB may be the US goat but he’s not above Snyder, Taylor, Dake, etc he couldn’t even win his ideal weight class and 79 is always super weak internationally as most non Olympic weights are.

Not sure where to put the women other than Elor #1. Heck TMS would be a clear #2 for me but she retired. Blades very well maybe #2 but I can’t put her there yet until she wins a title.
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"" But why is Snyder docked because he has maybe the Goat freestyler of all time in his weight class?" Exactly, Snyders beaten better competition than JB in recent years and his only hurdle is considered the best P4P by many. Same can be said for DT having to go through Yazdani.

P4P Best CURRENTLY USA in terms of chances for a medal Gold or otherwise, admittedly the margins on my picks are razor thin in some cases.
1. Taylor
2. Snyder
3. Dake
4. Stevenson
5. JB
 
jmog said:
Not to mention that Snyder actually has a win against said GOAT. So even though he is 1-2 officially, he has beat probably the greatest FS wrestler of all time.
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While you cannot argue the point that he did beat Sadulaev, you can argue the point of when he beat him. He beat him in 2017 when Sadulaev just moved up to that weight class, and was out of shape and not on the level he has been since. He isn't 1-2 against him, he is 1-3, and the last 3 matches have not been particularly close. Even if the scores weren't blowouts in the last two, it simply was not a close match either time. Not to mention he was pinned by Sadulaev as well. Snyder has also been beaten by 4 other wrestlers since he has beaten Sadulaev. It's also not a particularly deep weight class either, imo. Outside of Those two and the Iranian, not a whole lot there.
 
@snapspinscore , I contend that Snyder was just in better shape. Hard to take away from Snyder because Sadulaev wasn't, "on the level he has been since." Sad was a 2x world champ an Olympic champ and on a three year undefeated streak when he went up to challenge Snyder. He lost. Props due. Props given. FWIW, Sad went 92kg at the 2018 World tourney missing Snyder at 97kg.
I'm curious what other weight classes are deeper in your opinion. 97kg has three guys and then the rest. I would imagine that's pretty consistent across all the weights.
We're all aware of their history. Still always look forward to when they wrestle. (y)
 
Saw that Flo had an interesting idea. Assign confidence points to your predicted winners of Final X and see who gets the most points. If you chose the correct winner, you get the number of confidence points (from 10-1) that you assigned to the match. My picks below (with the numeral signaling the number of confidence points - 10 is your most confident pick, and 1 is your least). 55 points is the highest possible score

10. Steveson (over Parris)
9. Retherford (over Burger)
8. Gilman (over Richards)
7. Taylor (over Brooks)
6. Dake (over Nolf)
5. Kyle Snyder (over J'Den Cox)
4. Jordan (over Chance Marstellar)
3. Vito (over Nashon Garrett)
2. Valencia (Over Mike Macc.)
1. Yanni D. (over Nick Lee)
 
snapspinscore said:
While you cannot argue the point that he did beat Sadulaev, you can argue the point of when he beat him. He beat him in 2017 when Sadulaev just moved up to that weight class, and was out of shape and not on the level he has been since. He isn't 1-2 against him, he is 1-3, and the last 3 matches have not been particularly close. Even if the scores weren't blowouts in the last two, it simply was not a close match either time. Not to mention he was pinned by Sadulaev as well. Snyder has also been beaten by 4 other wrestlers since he has beaten Sadulaev. It's also not a particularly deep weight class either, imo. Outside of Those two and the Iranian, not a whole lot there.
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Please, Sud hadnt been beaten in like 4 years and was a 3 time in a row world/Olympic champ when he wrestled Snyder the first time. To say he wasn’t in shape or at the top of his game is asinine and rather stupid cmoment.

Your only legitimate comment was he was still adjusting to the higher weight class.
 
Yankeefan33 said:
It's finally time, the biggest domestic event of the year- Final X, aka the finals to world team trials. It may not seem like it, but this is really the beginning to the 2024 Olympics.

Step 1: 2023 Final X
Step 2: 2023 World Championships
Step 3: 2024 Olympic Trials
Step 4: 2024 Paris Olympics

Winning Step 1 puts you on the fast track towards that Olympic bid, and it all starts this weekend. The biggest match in men's freestyle is Kyle Snyder vs J'Den Cox, a battle between two Olympic medalists and 3x NCAA champs. In men's freestyle, 16 of the 20 wrestlers won at least one NCAA title, 14 of the 20 made an age level world team (wrestle freestyle/greco!), nine of the 20 have a world medal, and 7 of the 20 have an Olympic medal.

57 kg: Thomas Gilman vs Zane Richards
61 kg: Vito Arujau vs Nahshon Garrett
65 kg: Yianni Diakomihalis vs Nick Lee
70 kg: Zain Retherford vs Tyler Berger
74 kg: Kyle Dake vs Jason Nolf
79 kg: Jordan Burroughs vs Chance Marsteller
86 kg: David Taylor vs Aaron Brooks
92 kg: Michael Macchiavello vs Zahid Valencia
97kg: Kyle Snyder vs J’den Cox
125 kg: Gable Steveson vs Mason Parris
Click to expand...
My picks

57KG: Gilman
61Kg: Vito
65KG: Nick Lee
70KG: Zain
74KG: Dake ( Torn over this pick though I suspect Nolf is closing the gap)
79KG: Marstellar ( Even if Burroughs pulls out a win, his days of winning ONLY with the blast double, and no real top game have long caught up with him and his age )
86KG: Taylor
92KG: Valencia
97KG: Snyder ( I hate Cox's style and the slip and slide win over DT , there I said it. Throw in the missing weight debacle...Snyder is just better hopefully he doesnt have a bad day) )
125KG: Gable ( Easiest pick of the tournament)
 
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