2020 St. Ignatius Football

Had ball on 35 with 5 left or so, defensive holding then was negated by a absolutely phantom grounding call (almost at sideline when threw ball away), never moved after that on drive. Defense can't be on field all night and be expected to produce in 4th. Offense isn't even close to legitimate

Here's the play with the grounding call on the SIBN broadcast at the 02:46 mark. I guess the Ignatius receiver #86 on the 30 was not considered close enough?

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Here's the play with the grounding call on the SIBN broadcast at the 02:46 mark. I guess the Ignatius receiver #86 on the 30 was not considered close enough?

View attachment 10196
I can't see in the pic where the ball ended up. If the ball was thrown into the stands, it's grounding by NFHS rules. If a pass is thrown away with the intent to avoid a sack or conserve time (except for an immediate spike to stop the clock), it is grounding by NFHS rules.

Incidentally, it wasn't brought up here, but it's another one of those calls that is different from the NFL, but in NFHS rules, there is no such thing as an "uncatchable ball" with regard to whether or not pass interference occurs on a play.

FWIW, I'm far from a Massillon fan.
 
This was written by a HS referee in Utah in August of 2017. I bolded the part about spiking the ball because I'm pretty sure that rule has been modified recently:

"One of my crew mates threw a flag for this particular foul when the quarterback, while trying to avoid a sack, threw a pass into an area of the field with no eligible receiver in the vicinity. Following the game, we had two different spectators come over and ask why it was a penalty. One fan asked about the quarterback being outside the “tackle box,” meaning the width of the field between the two offensive tackles that, during a passing play, is also commonly referred to as “the pocket.” The second asked about the pass being thrown beyond the line of scrimmage. Both of these elements of a play are part of the same NFL rule regarding intentional grounding. On Sundays, if a quarterback is outside the tackle box and throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, there can be no foul for intentional grounding. It doesn’t matter if his nearest teammate is 50 yards away.

The NFHS rule, however, is substantially different.

Rule 7-5d states “An illegal forward pass is a foul. Illegal forward passes include a pass intentionally thrown into an area not occupied by an eligible offensive receiver.” Rule 7-5e adds more detail that “a pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time” is also illegal, with the following exception: “It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap.”

So what does that all mean in layman’s football terms?

First, as those rules are written, there are no provisions for where the quarterback is on the field nor where the ball lands for determining the legality of a pass. The only requirement on a “regular” passing play is that an eligible receiver be in the area. What exactly that constitutes is left to the judgment of the officials on the field. So if the quarterback decides to throw the ball into the stands (it happens) and on its way there the football flies over the head of an eligible receiver, it is still, by rule, intentional grounding — because where the football landed, there is no eligible receiver in the area.

As for Rule 7-5e and its exception, this is specifically in reference to “spiking” the football to stop the clock, usually seen in a two-minute drill situation by the offense. Such a move is perfectly legal, so long as two key provisions are met: the ball must go immediately to the ground, and the QB must take the snap under center.


With the proliferation of spread and shotgun offenses at high school and youth levels, you’d be surprised how many teams don’t know this rule and spike the ball after a shotgun snap. This is a foul for intentional grounding."

IIRC, the spiking exception to Rule 7-5e and explanation which I bolded was expanded either last year or this year to include shotgun snaps.
 
Felt like the type of game you would typically expect Cleveland Saint Ignatious to win. Have heard in the past that officials tend to make suspect calls at Massillon Washington home games, probably not unrelated to the fear invoked by the live tiger cub that paces the sidelines on a leash masterfully handcrafted in local steel mills, and Im hearing that was once again the case tonight. Irregardless, does not seem as though CSI is on the right growth trajectory, and id be curious what there fans would think is the proper course of corrective action. Sure, MW is an up and coming program hungry for their first championship, but still think Wildcats would have liked this one before facing the Xavier Musketeers next week.
 
The Ignatius offensive line was really bad tonight, but there are no playmakers on this team offensively.

And there don't seem to be any on the way.

Ignatius does not have a QB, but again the line was overwhelmed by Eds and Massillon.

It is what it is.
 
This was written by a HS referee in Utah in August of 2017. I bolded the part about spiking the ball because I'm pretty sure that rule has been modified recently:

"One of my crew mates threw a flag for this particular foul when the quarterback, while trying to avoid a sack, threw a pass into an area of the field with no eligible receiver in the vicinity. Following the game, we had two different spectators come over and ask why it was a penalty. One fan asked about the quarterback being outside the “tackle box,” meaning the width of the field between the two offensive tackles that, during a passing play, is also commonly referred to as “the pocket.” The second asked about the pass being thrown beyond the line of scrimmage. Both of these elements of a play are part of the same NFL rule regarding intentional grounding. On Sundays, if a quarterback is outside the tackle box and throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, there can be no foul for intentional grounding. It doesn’t matter if his nearest teammate is 50 yards away.

The NFHS rule, however, is substantially different.

Rule 7-5d states “An illegal forward pass is a foul. Illegal forward passes include a pass intentionally thrown into an area not occupied by an eligible offensive receiver.” Rule 7-5e adds more detail that “a pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time” is also illegal, with the following exception: “It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap.”

So what does that all mean in layman’s football terms?

First, as those rules are written, there are no provisions for where the quarterback is on the field nor where the ball lands for determining the legality of a pass. The only requirement on a “regular” passing play is that an eligible receiver be in the area. What exactly that constitutes is left to the judgment of the officials on the field. So if the quarterback decides to throw the ball into the stands (it happens) and on its way there the football flies over the head of an eligible receiver, it is still, by rule, intentional grounding — because where the football landed, there is no eligible receiver in the area.

As for Rule 7-5e and its exception, this is specifically in reference to “spiking” the football to stop the clock, usually seen in a two-minute drill situation by the offense. Such a move is perfectly legal, so long as two key provisions are met: the ball must go immediately to the ground, and the QB must take the snap under center.

With the proliferation of spread and shotgun offenses at high school and youth levels, you’d be surprised how many teams don’t know this rule and spike the ball after a shotgun snap. This is a foul for intentional grounding.
"


IIRC, the spiking exception to Rule 7-5e and explanation which I bolded was expanded either last year or this year to include shotgun snaps.

This was asked over on the ATR thread but I thought I'd put it on here as well.....

Under NFHS Rules.......

Where the passer is on the field is irrelevant.
Whether or not the ball passes the line of scrimmage is irrelevant

Intentional Grounding is defined as:

- A pass intentionally thrown into an area not occupied by an eligible offensive receiver.
- A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time.

As noted prior, there is an exception to Rule 7-5-2 that states....

It is legal for a player positioned directly behind the snapper to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the snap that has neither been muffed nor touched the ground.

The change allowing the passer to execute this action from a position other than a hand to hand snap was implemented this year. (denoted by the underlined portion of the exception)

On a final note, there is no tackle box under NFHS Rules.
 
Felt like the type of game you would typically expect Cleveland Saint Ignatious to win. Have heard in the past that officials tend to make suspect calls at Massillon Washington home games, probably not unrelated to the fear invoked by the live tiger cub that paces the sidelines on a leash masterfully handcrafted in local steel mills, and Im hearing that was once again the case tonight. Irregardless, does not seem as though CSI is on the right growth trajectory, and id be curious what there fans would think is the proper course of corrective action. Sure, MW is an up and coming program hungry for their first championship, but still think Wildcats would have liked this one before facing the Xavier Musketeers next week.

LOL! ?
 
This was asked over on the ATR thread but I thought I'd put it on here as well.....

Under NFHS Rules.......

Where the passer is on the field is irrelevant.
Whether or not the ball passes the line of scrimmage is irrelevant

Intentional Grounding is defined as:

- A pass intentionally thrown into an area not occupied by an eligible offensive receiver.
- A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time.

As noted prior, there is an exception to Rule 7-5-2 that states....

It is legal for a player positioned directly behind the snapper to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the snap that has neither been muffed nor touched the ground.

The change allowing the passer to execute this action from a position other than a hand to hand snap was implemented this year. (denoted by the underlined portion of the exception)

On a final note, there is no tackle box under NFHS Rules.

That'll do.

I'm sorry for my intrusion, St. Ignatius fans. You may have your thread back. I enjoy reading it since the conversion is generally intelligent and above board.
 
PDC suspect line, rbs, and qb? The trifecta huh. Hard to believe with Ignatius reputation and enrollment. Not that Massillon is a slouch and you hung tough. We have our own issues. Weird season.
 
There needs to be fresh blood, particularly on offense coaching. I adore Nick Restifo and Chuck Kyle, far beyond the football field, namely from.the classroom. But, I get the sense the time has come
 
PDC suspect line, rbs, and qb? The trifecta huh. Hard to believe with Ignatius reputation and enrollment. Not that Massillon is a slouch and you hung tough. We have our own issues. Weird season.

FWIW, I watched the Wildcats' game last week vs. St. Edward. Yes, they didn't have the benefit of a full preseason of practices, but I have to agree with their fans who follow the team more closely than me. I didn't see any players on offense who looked like they had the ability to make a play that could win a game against a good opponent. The raw athletic talent appeared to be missing.
 
I can't see in the pic where the ball ended up. If the ball was thrown into the stands, it's grounding by NFHS rules. If a pass is thrown away with the intent to avoid a sack or conserve time (except for an immediate spike to stop the clock), it is grounding by NFHS rules.

Incidentally, it wasn't brought up here, but it's another one of those calls that is different from the NFL, but in NFHS rules, there is no such thing as an "uncatchable ball" with regard to whether or not pass interference occurs on a play.

FWIW, I'm far from a Massillon fan.
Mr. Slippery , yes the ball ended up in the stands. It looked like one of the throws we see in college /NFL when the QB gets out of the pocket and heaves the SOB as far as he can out of bounds.
 
FWIW, I watched the Wildcats' game last week vs. St. Edward. Yes, they didn't have the benefit of a full preseason of practices, but I have to agree with their fans who follow the team more closely than me. I didn't see any players on offense who looked like they had the ability to make a play that could win a game against a good opponent. The raw athletic talent appeared to be missing.
Other than some mental mistakes, Iggy was the same Iggy in terms of size and speed. Their RB was a beast and their secondary knew how to cover the receivers. This was a hard hitting affair on both sides with many kids beat to he^* . Glad that I was able to get a ticket to the game to see this one for sure. Iggy will surprise many people in the playoffs, I know if I was a coach of one of the other D1 teams, I would not want them . JMHO
 
Felt like the type of game you would typically expect Cleveland Saint Ignatious to win. Have heard in the past that officials tend to make suspect calls at Massillon Washington home games, probably not unrelated to the fear invoked by the live tiger cub that paces the sidelines on a leash masterfully handcrafted in local steel mills, and Im hearing that was once again the case tonight. Irregardless, does not seem as though CSI is on the right growth trajectory, and id be curious what there fans would think is the proper course of corrective action. Sure, MW is an up and coming program hungry for their first championship, but still think Wildcats would have liked this one before facing the Xavier Musketeers next week.
You are hearing ? Of course you are haring AND IF MW would have lost someone else would have been hearing. I was there and now you are hearing that it was one helluva a slobberknocker as both sides beat the ever living heck out of each other. People complain about the QBs on both sides. On the one, the MW kid was baited into that IC which was a heckuva a play by the Iggy kid. The same happened to the Iggy QB on his IC throw. Lets remember that these are still KIDS who are busting their a&es to try to play FB while under Turtleman's martial law system. Iggy will go far in the playoffs as they sure have the size and smarts. Mr. Kyle is still the best there is. MW will also go far and hope that the D stays healthy as lets face it , there is Hoban, WW ( Yes everyone forgets about them ) and LaSalle. It all comes down to mental mistakes and who capitalizes on them. Best of luck to all.
 
You are hearing ? Of course you are haring AND IF MW would have lost someone else would have been hearing. I was there and now you are hearing that it was one helluva a slobberknocker as both sides beat the ever living heck out of each other. People complain about the QBs on both sides. On the one, the MW kid was baited into that IC which was a heckuva a play by the Iggy kid. The same happened to the Iggy QB on his IC throw. Lets remember that these are still KIDS who are busting their a&es to try to play FB while under Turtleman's martial law system. Iggy will go far in the playoffs as they sure have the size and smarts. Mr. Kyle is still the best there is. MW will also go far and hope that the D stays healthy as lets face it , there is Hoban, WW ( Yes everyone forgets about them ) and LaSalle. It all comes down to mental mistakes and who capitalizes on them. Best of luck to all.
How about HEARING and not haring :)
 
There needs to be fresh blood, particularly on offense coaching. I adore Nick Restifo and Chuck Kyle, far beyond the football field, namely from.the classroom. But, I get the sense the time has come
Be careful for what you wish for. Take a look at Moeller and others. You guys have a great thing going on there, stay with it.
 
Felt like the type of game you would typically expect Cleveland Saint Ignatious to win. Have heard in the past that officials tend to make suspect calls at Massillon Washington home games, probably not unrelated to the fear invoked by the live tiger cub that paces the sidelines on a leash masterfully handcrafted in local steel mills, and Im hearing that was once again the case tonight. Irregardless, does not seem as though CSI is on the right growth trajectory, and id be curious what there fans would think is the proper course of corrective action. Sure, MW is an up and coming program hungry for their first championship, but still think Wildcats would have liked this one before facing the Xavier Musketeers next week.
Where are you ”hearing” your game reports— Cosmopolitan Magazine?

I don’t think the Ig basketball team will be facing the Xavier University Musketeers next week...but there may be hope, yet, for that “up and coming program“ at Massillon...
 
Well, I guess they went from 0 offensive TD last week to 1 this week, so that's......something. 71 yards in the air. Seventy one
The #'s are ugly, I guess what I meant is that if they had a 10 game season to develop, I think they would end up being pretty good, enough to threaten in Region 1. They still had an 8 point 4th quarter lead vs what was thought to be the most talented team in D2 (but whose football program really functions no different than a D1 private).
 
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