2019 McQuaid Invitational

Rohbino

Active member
This past weekend the 55th McQuaid Invitational was held in in Rochester, NY. This is a large and competitive event. Last year there were a total of over 8000 runners and 260 schools competing in 26 races. Schools from Canada, California, Missouri, Florida, Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York attended. I haven't seen the tallies of the numbers from this year but, again, there were 26 races. Schools from Ohio are usually well-represented at this event and were again this year. Girls teams from Beavercreek, Strongsville, Mags, Lakewood, Walsh competed and boys teams were from Davidson, Beavercreek, Walsh, Strongsville, and Lakewood were present.

The Beavercreek girls ran particularly well placing 2nd in the large school race. Savannah Roark took 1st place overall in 16:56 over the 3 mile course. Taylor Ewert did not compete. Here are the Beavercreek results:

1 Savannah Roark 16:56.3
3 Jodie Pierce 17:31.8
4 Juliann Williams 17:33.9
24 Kendall Hobbs 19:07.9
39 Samantha Thomas 19:43.1
( 42) Ashtyn Gluck 20:01.2
( 50) Megan Nowe 20:14.3

Creek needs to tighten the 5th runner up a bit but at this point in the season it appears that it will be difficult for any team to beat them at the state championship.

The Davidson and Beavercreek boys also ran well taking 3rd and 4th places respectively.

Davidson:
7 Connor Ackley 15:34.3
19 Alex Hudson 15:54.0
34 Xavier Gallo 16:10.3
36 Nick Puhl 16:17.8
42 Noah Pease 16:21.8
( 53) Luke Perez 16:34.2
( 62) Mitchell Messer 16:48.5

Beavercreek:
15 Keegan Souhan 15:50.2
20 Tayton Hess 15:54.3
26 Ryan Massie 16:01.2
37 Andrew Woodard 16:18.7
54 Andrew Radford 16:34.9
( 59) Brenden Baker 16:45.6
( 75) Jacob Gosney 16:59.4

Complete results are here
 
I was looking at those results yesterday. Crazy how they have races going off every 22 minutes! I wonder why they run 3 miles instead of a 5k.
 

Rohbino

Active member
I wonder why they run 3 miles instead of a 5k.
It's been 3 miles for years. They probably just kept it at that distance for tradition, continuity of course records, etc

New York ran 3 miles as the standard XC distance when Ohio was running 2 miles and, later, 2½ miles. NY now runs 5K but it was probably just easier to leave this event as is. Illinois HS XC is still 3 miles and hasn't changed to 5K.
 

EuclidandViren

Active member
According to milesplit both Ewerts did not run at this event. Connor Ewert is the boys #1 runner for Beavercreek. Milesplit also said that Beavercreek was without their #5 runner.

Beavercreek girls look amazing up top. They could possibly have 4 in the top 10 at the state meet and possibly go 1-2 overall.
Has another high school ever had 2 girls under 10:30 in the 3200 in Ohio at the same time?

Hilliard Davidson boys are doing a great job as normal. Every time I try and count them out they make a late September to October run and improve to be a top 10 team in the state of Ohio. Pat Schlect is certainly one of the best coaches in Ohio and deserving of HOF in the coming years.

Connor Ackley is only a freshman! Not every year we see a freshman possibly make the podium at the end of the year.
 

psycho_dad

Active member
Beavercreek girls look amazing up top. They could possibly have 4 in the top 10 at the state meet and possibly go 1-2 overall.
Has another high school ever had 2 girls under 10:30 in the 3200 in Ohio at the same time?
Best girls I can remember are Radkewich and Sturgell from Beaumont (I think both were originally from Hudson) mid 90's My guess is Radkewich was sub 10:20 and Sturgell was sub 10:40... Franek and Schenck from Crestwood. Again, Franek was probably sub 10:20 and Schenck right around 10:40. However, Schenck may not have been sub 10:40 until after Franek graduated. 2006.. Can't imagine there are that many girls in state history to go sub 10:30 at this point. So, I'm going to say no. Brunswick has had some real good 3200 m runners. They had 4 or 5 girls a few years ago. I' think they ran different girls at the state meet 3 or 4 years in a row. Not sure what they did in a season and I do not follow D1 all that close, but I'm sure Brunswick has had a great run of 3200m girls.
 
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According to milesplit both Ewerts did not run at this event. Connor Ewert is the boys #1 runner for Beavercreek. Milesplit also said that Beavercreek was without their #5 runner.

Beavercreek girls look amazing up top. They could possibly have 4 in the top 10 at the state meet and possibly go 1-2 overall.
Has another high school ever had 2 girls under 10:30 in the 3200 in Ohio at the same time?

Hilliard Davidson boys are doing a great job as normal. Every time I try and count them out they make a late September to October run and improve to be a top 10 team in the state of Ohio. Pat Schlect is certainly one of the best coaches in Ohio and deserving of HOF in the coming years.

Connor Ackley is only a freshman! Not every year we see a freshman possibly make the podium at the end of the year.
Ackley is good, but no podium for him. He may not even run at the state meet - HD is going to have a hard time qualifying without horses up front.

AND... the best freshman in the state is easily Tommy Rice from GlenOak. Really not even close. He could be top 30 at state.
 

Rohbino

Active member
Ackley is good, but no podium for him. He may not even run at the state meet - HD is going to have a hard time qualifying without horses up front.
There's no reason to believe that Davidson won't qualify as a team to state. They're probably the 4th best team in the Pickerington Regional right now behind Pick North, Orange, and Lincoln. TWHS is probably close to them. Five teams get out of the Pickerington region.
AND... the best freshman in the state is easily Tommy Rice from GlenOak. Really not even close. He could be top 30 at state.
Rice's best 5K this season is 16:06. Ackley's is 16:32. Ackley's 3 mile time at McQuaid was 15:34. 15:34 extrapolates to approximately a 16:07± 5K.
 
There's no reason to believe that Davidson won't qualify as a team to state. They're probably the 4th best team in the Pickerington Regional right now behind Pick North, Orange, and Lincoln. TWHS is probably close to them. Five teams get out of the Pickerington region.

Rice's best 5K this season is 16:06. Ackley's is 16:32. Ackley's 3 mile time at McQuaid was 15:34. 15:34 extrapolates to approximately a 16:07± 5K.
Idk man (Mr. Ackley? Coach?), you may be right, but I think you're paying a little too close attention to Milesplit and rankings of times - paricularly out of state times with few Ohio comps (how would Gahanna have run at McQuaid?).

As far as teams... you're forgetting O. Liberty. They're in the top five as well, and when TWHS is healthy (Nate Johnson), they're likely in the top 3. Davidson also will have to contend with New Albany (low split 1-5), UA (same), and Worthington Kilbourne (basically scoring 4 with Williams out front). If Lancaster's young kids put it together and race well on the same day, they're not too far from HD as well.

With Ackley, he's definitely talented for a freshman. But he finished 52 seconds back of TW's Jha at MSU - as HD's top man - and 50 seconds back of Elliot Cook at the Celtic Clash. With these two plus Duvall, Williams, Harper Moore, etc., just from Region 3 (!), all about 1 minute ahead... and Ackley will somehow find his way to the podium at state? C'mon.

And by the way... last fall he raced Tommy Rice at the OHSAA MS Invitational. Rice beat him by 1:51 (10:59 - 12:50).
 
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Rohbino

Active member
Idk man (Mr. Ackley? Coach?), you may be right, but I think you're paying a little too close attention to Milesplit and rankings of times - paricularly out of state times with few Ohio comps (how would Gahanna have run at McQuaid?).
I don't know what "Mr Ackley?" and "Coach?" refers to but I don't even read Milesplit. There are other sources of getting times.

It will be fun to watch. That's why they race.

The MS time from last year means very little. Boys at this age are undergoing rapid physiological changes. They're really quite unpredictable.
 
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I don't know what "Mr Ackley?" and "Coach?" refers to but I don't even read Milesplit. There are other sources of getting times.

It will be fun to watch. That's why they race.

The MS time from last year means very little. Boys at this age are undergoing rapid physiological changes. They're really quite unpredictable.
You're right. They need to race. Which is why I was a little taken aback when you seemed ready to anoint Ackley a few posts ago based on a time he posted. There are a lot of good freshman in the state, and many run courses not set up for blazing Milesplit times. We would need to see them together in order to definitely say one is better than another, or - in this case - make the bold claim that they are podium worthy after barely cracking 5:00 in the mile the year before.

I contend that if you're going to make a claim like that, you need to base it on racing/competition history, not times. Tommy Rice has done more against better competition (recently 3rd in the Stark Co. Champs) - only 30 seconds behind Moore, who beat Jha (-52 on Ackley) handily at Centerville.

We'll see, I suppose. Let's talk in a couple weeks.
 

SOTT

Active member
Haha..."Oncearunner" seems much more likely to be a parent or coach. Hey, Oncearunner, Rohbino is a long established and well respected member of these boards. You might want to familiarize yourself with the landscape of this forum before throwing around comical suppositions.
 

Rohbino

Active member
You're right. They need to race. Which is why I was a little taken aback when you seemed ready to anoint Ackley a few posts ago based on a time he posted.
I wasn't ready to "annoint" Ackley. You may be getting me confused with EuclidandViren. In his post he stated this about Ackley:

"Connor Ackley is only a freshman! Not every year we see a freshman possibly make the podium at the end of the year."

Even so, I don't feel that EuclidandViren was trying to "annoint" him either. He was merely pointing out that he is a strong freshman.

My earlier response was based on what you wrote about Glen Oak's Tommy Rice. This is what you wrote:

"AND... the best freshman in the state is easily Tommy Rice from GlenOak. Really not even close. He could be top 30 at state."

All I did was look at Ackley's time at McQuaid, even though it was 3 miles and not 5K, and showed that if it was a 5K that it would/should be close to Rice's best 5K time. I did that because you said Rice is easily the best freshman in the state and it's not even close. If anyone was "anointing" anyone here, it was you.
 

EuclidandViren

Active member
Well said Rohino.

For a couple of comparisons:
(1) I don't look at middle school times
(2) I take out their fastest 2 times and slowest 2 times- that will show you more of a consistency factor
(3) I really only look at head to head competition.
(4) I look at coaching. Ackley has one of the best coaches in the state of Ohio. He gets average kids to be great and great kids to be all american.

For freshmen, the best freshmen rarely is the best senior or even in the top 10 as a senior. I actually do not like it when the freshmen run that fast. They need to grow into their bodies and room for growth. If you have a freshmen run 15:40's where does he go from there? It is hard mentally and physically to improve that much in high school. Usually, midway through sophomore year you can amp up a kids mileage and they will respond positively.
 
I wasn't ready to "annoint" Ackley. You may be getting me confused with EuclidandViren. In his post he stated this about Ackley:

"Connor Ackley is only a freshman! Not every year we see a freshman possibly make the podium at the end of the year."

Even so, I don't feel that EuclidandViren was trying to "annoint" him either. He was merely pointing out that he is a strong freshman.

My earlier response was based on what you wrote about Glen Oak's Tommy Rice. This is what you wrote:

"AND... the best freshman in the state is easily Tommy Rice from GlenOak. Really not even close. He could be top 30 at state."

All I did was look at Ackley's time at McQuaid, even though it was 3 miles and not 5K, and showed that if it was a 5K that it would/should be close to Rice's best 5K time. I did that because you said Rice is easily the best freshman in the state and it's not even close. If anyone was "anointing" anyone here, it was you.
You're right. The anointing was E&V. My bad.

My contention is that there is much more evidence with Rice regarding who he's raced, who he's beaten, and the time gaps between him and the top kids in that race: 3rd at Stark Champs (33 behind Moore), 3rd at Cloverleaf (9 seconds behind Singleton), 2nd at McDonough (19 behind Zucca), 8th at Wooster (28 behind Dunham).

And no, I'm not a Rice homer. I just think the above are much more convincing than extrapolating from one random quick time that is more of an outlier than anything.

We'll see who's right, I suppose.
 

EuclidandViren

Active member
You're right. The anointing was E&V. My bad.

My contention is that there is much more evidence with Rice regarding who he's raced, who he's beaten, and the time gaps between him and the top kids in that race: 3rd at Stark Champs (33 behind Moore), 3rd at Cloverleaf (9 seconds behind Singleton), 2nd at McDonough (19 behind Zucca), 8th at Wooster (28 behind Dunham).

And no, I'm not a Rice homer. I just think the above are much more convincing than extrapolating from one random quick time that is more of an outlier than anything.

We'll see who's right, I suppose.
No sir you don't get the point. I was not anointing. All I said was that he could be podium material. I never said that he was the best freshmen in the state.
 
No sir you don't get the point. I was not anointing. All I said was that he could be podium material. I never said that he was the best freshmen in the state.
Errr....

Connor Ackley is only a freshman! Not every year we see a freshman possibly make the podium at the end of the year.

You suggested Ackley was an anomaly. It's that "not every year" bit....

Heck, his own teammate Alex Hudson finished 49th last year (D1) as a frosh. Matt Singleton from Aurora was 36th in the same race. Not podium, but solid. Dylan Lauck was 17th in D3 state XC. Jailen Willis of Pickerington qualified for D1 state in the 3200 last year, running 9:27.

These were all last year. Did you forget these guys?

In years past, some freshman were even better.... (Nathan Moore, etc.)

I just think you piled it on a little thick for him, at least at this point. He's good, but there are a lot of good - even great! - young runners in this state year-to-year. Time will tell.
 
God bless you oncearunner, you must be very angry about something that you are not sure of what it is. Just a runner was mentioned for having a great race in one of the most competitive meets in the region and you feel violated. wow, there will be lots of these moments this year.
 

psycho_dad

Active member
Stupid question, but what is podium for individuals these days? Rather Ironic that I do not know that.

"For freshmen, the best freshmen rarely is the best senior or even in the top 10 as a senior." I'm going to call BS on this one. I'm pretty sure that in D2 last year, the top 2 seniors, were the top 2 freshman 4 years earlier. I bet at least 5 out of the 10 seniors were top 10 freshman. I don't even have to look, cuz I'm positive .

I'll go look at D1. My assumption is that it's going to be harder in D1 because freshman usually make it with a team and it has to be much harder for a freshman to make varsity as a frosh. I don't really follow D1, but just from a few years ago, Horter was the top Freshman and the top Senior in D1. Jha was in that class. He had to be a top freshman and a top senior.
 
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God bless you oncearunner, you must be very angry about something that you are not sure of what it is. Just a runner was mentioned for having a great race in one of the most competitive meets in the region and you feel violated. wow, there will be lots of these moments this year.
Violated? Nah. Angry? Nah. If we're not here to discuss things, be honest, speak our minds, debate, or whatever, then why visit the forums at all? Ackley is good, but he's not Andrew Jordan, Jeff See, or Kennedy. Not yet, anyway. Every one of my posts has been a "Woah, let's pump the brakes a bit on the hype" kind of a thing. I don't think that's unreasonable or out-of-line with debates/discussion on other threads on there, particularly the ones regarding the rankings.

By the way.... Tommy Rice ran 15:44 this weekend at the Eisenhart Inv, finishing 8th. Not saying that means anything though.
 

psycho_dad

Active member
Speaking of rankings. Should Woodridge boys be ranked higher? They ran some times this past weekend.

It seems from my minutes of research that top freshman tend to do well as seniors.
 

Seek Up

Active member
Violated? Nah. Angry? Nah. If we're not here to discuss things, be honest, speak our minds, debate, or whatever, then why visit the forums at all? Ackley is good, but he's not Andrew Jordan, Jeff See, or Kennedy. Not yet, anyway. Every one of my posts has been a "Woah, let's pump the brakes a bit on the hype" kind of a thing. I don't think that's unreasonable or out-of-line with debates/discussion on other threads on there, particularly the ones regarding the rankings.

By the way.... Tommy Rice ran 15:44 this weekend at the Eisenhart Inv, finishing 8th. Not saying that means anything though.
Kennedy didn't make state as a freshman...
 

OhioBuff

New member
Violated? Nah. Angry? Nah. If we're not here to discuss things, be honest, speak our minds, debate, or whatever, then why visit the forums at all? Ackley is good, but he's not Andrew Jordan, Jeff See, or Kennedy. Not yet, anyway. Every one of my posts has been a "Woah, let's pump the brakes a bit on the hype" kind of a thing. I don't think that's unreasonable or out-of-line with debates/discussion on other threads on there, particularly the ones regarding the rankings.

By the way.... Tommy Rice ran 15:44 this weekend at the Eisenhart Inv, finishing 8th. Not saying that means anything though.
“Whoa, let’s pump the breaks a bit on the hype but also this freshman, my MAN TOMMY RICE is the BEST freshman in the state and it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE.”

This isn’t letsrun. 99% chance Oncearunner knows Rice and just wants to be able to say “I told you so!”
 

EuclidandViren

Active member
A little data for you...not head to head or the same course but pure data...

Top 3 seniors this year- arguable-
Caleb Brown- 43rd best freshmen in 2016- 16:58 PR
Matt Duvall- 4th best freshmen in 2016 16:13 PR
Bronson- who has been nominated for national performer of the week with Brown- 40th best freshmen in Ohio in 2016 with 16:57 PR

Second Tier
Cook #1 freshmen in 16:05 in 2016
Harper Moore #15 freshmen in 2016 with a 16:39 PR

*I would argue that these are the blue-chip senior boys in the class of 2019 that will land at major colleges.

With Brown and Bronson separating themselves right now. Both were not top 40 freshmen in 2016.
 
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“Whoa, let’s pump the breaks a bit on the hype but also this freshman, my MAN TOMMY RICE is the BEST freshman in the state and it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE.”

This isn’t letsrun. 99% chance Oncearunner knows Rice and just wants to be able to say “I told you so!”
Nope. I first saw him at the OHSAA MS meet and just thought he was really impressive. Don't know him at all - he just stands out. I've seen Ackley multiple times in track and CC, since I live in central OH. My kids have run against both multiple times, along with Liam Shaughnessy from Dublin Coffman, another talented freshman on par with Ackley.

I saw Rice run in person for the 2nd time at the Eisenhart, where he was equally impressive.
 
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psycho_dad

Active member
A little data for you...not head to head or the same course but pure data...

Top 3 seniors this year- arguable-
Caleb Brown- 43rd best freshmen in 2016- 16:58 PR
Matt Duvall- 4th best freshmen in 2016 16:13 PR
Bronson- who has been nominated for national performer of the week with Brown- 40th best freshmen in Ohio in 2016 with 16:57 PR

Second Tier
Cook #1 freshmen in 16:05 in 2016
Harper Moore #15 freshmen in 2016 with a 16:39 PR

*I would argue that these are the blue-chip senior boys in the class of 2019 that will land at major colleges.

With Brown and Bronson separating themselves right now. Both were not top 40 freshmen in 2016.
Cook and Duval were the top two Freshman in the D1 race as Freshman. They were 1&3 as Juniors. Running fast as Freshman didn't hurt them. They are still at the top of their class.

Bronson was the top Soph (was 5th man on his team as a frosh and was one of the top freshman in D2)
Duval was second
Iler 3rd
Cook 4th
Moore 5th

Minus Bronson for whatever reason,(Defiance pulled runners at the Regional for "disciplinary reasons") Duval, Iler, Cook and Moore were right there at the top as Juniors.

D2. Micah Blair was top Frosh in 16
Caleb Brown was top soph with Blair 2nd best by 7 seconds
Same two top two as juniors.

Blair ain't some chump and has won his share of races this year so far as a senior.
 
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This is fun to read. The leafs are only starting to change and fall. Some are only foaming the cream in the cappuccino machine, then the cream starts to rise, then it is added to the drink, then the drink will be awesome. This understanding is so missing. I look forward to the waves crashing and taking many out to sea as the strong leafs hang on till they are the last to stay.
 
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