2018 Divisioning is set

 
LaneDixon said:
There was a good article about this in the Cincinnati Enquirer today. The Summit AD is quoted as saying "waaaa, waaaa, waaa". :stirthepot:
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No doubt! Boys and Girls soccer will be just fine in D2. Could he be crying that much over Volleyball?
 
The people that should be on fire about this is Ottawa Hills. Lose to Summit in the state final when Summit "mistakenly" used the wrong multiplier numbers. They only missed it by over 100 boys on enrollment -- oops!

Ottawa Hills - 2017 Boys Division III Soccer Champions
 
Ilsco said:
The people that should be on fire about this is Ottawa Hills. Lose to Summit in the state final when Summit "mistakenly" used the wrong multiplier numbers. They only missed it by over 100 boys on enrollment -- oops!
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what?
 
OK, caught up on the other thread on that topic, as well as the Enquirer article.

Personally, I think it is a bit silly this is an issue. The identification of designated feeders will continue to be an issue because it is a flawed design. Hopefully the CB bylaws are improved. As it is, Summit Country Day should be able to classify themselves within the Catholic school system. I see no fault in what they turned in. That it ended up being just 1 below the cutoff could not have been known beforehand.

I do not think the SCD administrators are concerned with being in D II vs D III, but I don't blame them for arguing their designation as a Catholic school. It's not about the division, it's just about providing what was asked for.
 
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What appears to be the only big change in this area is Canfield moving back down from D1 to D2.

Adds another team to an already loaded D2 playoff district. Howland is still the favorite, but still lots of other good teams in lakeview, hubbard, poland, south range and now canfield.
 
I agree it is a flawed system, but until it is changed the schools need to abide by the rules in place, not make up their own rules to suit their needs. No other schools had a problem figuring out how to calculate their numbers. Summit elected to classify itself as both independent and Catholic and then used whichever designation provided a lower CB number - that goes beyond a simple mistake to manipulating numbers. I used to agree with you that Summit didn't care about what division they are in (and quite frankly they will do very well in DII), but the comments from the AD clearly reveal that they do care what division they are in.

This is as much an OHSAA issue as anything. OHSAA loves to throw teams out of tournaments or require teams to forfeit wins if they use an illegible player but turn a blind eye to a school that intentionally manipulates its CB numbers to stay in a lower division
 
Ilsco said:
The people that should be on fire about this is Ottawa Hills. Lose to Summit in the state final when Summit "mistakenly" used the wrong multiplier numbers. They only missed it by over 100 boys on enrollment -- oops!

Ottawa Hills - 2017 Boys Division III Soccer Champions
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What? Do you not even know how CB works?
 
They did not "elect" to identify as both Indeendent and Catholic- they are a Catholic school and should be designated as such for OHSAA category. They are independent only as it relates to the way they are affiliated with the Archdiocese- there is no confusion on Summits part.
 
No - you are wrong. In the article in the Enquirer last fall Summit said it was confused because it was an "Independent Catholic" school and therefore had miscalculated its CB number. It does make a difference as the multiplier will be different depending on each players previous school history. The feeder schools selected by the school must be from the same system of education (i.e. Catholic, Independent, etc.). Summit designated feeder schools from two systems, therefore reducing its CB number. (And if there was "no confusion on Summit's part", how did there CB number go up over 100 this year). Pathetic
 
I have read the article

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/762346001

and am very familiar with Summits designation- you are mistaken. Summit IS an independent Catholic school- they used Catholic schools as designated feeders becuase they ARE a Catholic school. OHSAA said no you can't use them because you are an Independent school. They are not- they are part of the Archdioscese of Cincinnati (and required 4 years of religion and Mass) but they are Independent as far as funding and some other technicalities. The independent part has nothing to do with how it should be categorized as far as OHSAA.
Seven Hills is Independent; Summit is Catholic and should have been designated as such for the multipliers. That is how Summit reported- as Catholic which is correct.
 
And as to your statement that "Summit said it was confused and miscalculated the numbers"- re read the article that is totally not what was said. Summit/dennis said they turned in numbers as a Catholic school. The OHSAA spokesperson said something about there being some confusion on Summits designation and they were working towards a resolution. That is very different from what you said.
 
St. X is an independent Catholic school as well- they turned in numbers based on having Catholic schools as their feeders. Summit is no different other than much smaller and co-ed. Doubt anyone would say St. X should not be considered a Catholic school.
 
That's how I remember it from the fall too. Summit considers themselves a Catholic school and turned in their numbers accordingly. Ohsaa or some other body challenged that and said they were independent more like seven hills. What that means then is all the kids that came to summit from local Catholic schools went from tier 0 (same system of education) to tier 2. Thus the huge jump.

Where summit differs from all the other Catholic high schools is they are K-12 and would pretty much be forced to designate themselves as their feeder school.

On the plus side since they are now considered independent they can probably poach kids from seven hills and ccd without penalty. Lol
 
Something fishy about the story. As pointed out, St. Xavier is very much run independently of the Diocese (as are St. Ignatius, St. Edward, Gilmour, and many other Catholic schools.) What am I missing?
 
I don't remember all of it but in the previous thread last year there was discussion about the national organization Catholic schools belong to and summit didn't belong to that one but some other organization. Could that be it?
 
winbypin said:
I don't remember all of it but in the previous thread last year there was discussion about the national organization Catholic schools belong to and summit didn't belong to that one but some other organization. Could that be it?
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I remember seeing something to that effect but also that several other Catholic schools that were allowed to designate themselves as such were also not ended of that National Organization.
 
Anyone familiar with Summit would agree that they are as Catholic as any of the other schools allowed to draw from that pool of feeders without penalty. About half of their incoming freshman were at Summit for 7/8th grade and the majority of the class is from other Catholic grade schools.
 
Winbypin- I haven't looked at the info in awhile but I think kids who go to 7/8th at the same school they go to high school (i.e. Summit; Walnut Hills; CHCA; etc) that doesn't "count" as the feeder school. The multipliers for all of the other student athletes would be the issue as they would be counted as if they didn't attend Catholic schools for 7/8th grade despite coming from St. Mary's; St. Columban; Bethany; etc.
 
Kballer said:
Winbypin- I haven't looked at the info in awhile but I think kids who go to 7/8th at the same school they go to high school (i.e. Summit; Walnut Hills; CHCA; etc) that doesn't "count" as the feeder school. The multipliers for all of the other student athletes would be the issue as they would be counted as if they didn't attend Catholic schools for 7/8th grade despite coming from St. Mary's; St. Columban; Bethany; etc.
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I don't think that is right....a private school can have multiple feeder schools if they are in the same attendance zone. But they have to be from the same system of education. At least that is how I read it. So before this change SCD could have designated themselves plus the other Catholic parish schools in their attendance zone as their feeders. Now they are stuck with themselves and I guess Seven Hills if those two schools are considered part of the same system of education now.

http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/SchoolResources/CompetitiveBalance/FeederSchoolList.pdf

I think the powerpoint presentation you can find at this link does a better job of explaining the tiers.

http://www.ohsaa.org/School-Resources/Competitive-Balance-Resource-Center
 
Thanks- I haven't looked in awhile since I don't have a kid directly affected by CB. It is absurd that Summit should lose their Catholic designation- they are a Catholic school through and through. Founded by nuns, continuous Catholic identity for over 125 years. I understand the outcry against Summits success and am not saying they shouldn't have the proper multipliers added to their total enrollment but to literally deny them their proper designation to do so is unscrupulous.
 
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Kballer said:
Thanks- I haven't looked in awhile since I don't have a kid directly affected by CB. It is absurd that Summit should lose their Catholic designation- they are a Catholic school through and through.
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Honestly, I didn't know they were a Catholic school until this blew up last year. But I am not from the area and didn't know anything about the school beyond their sports team. I wrongly assumed they were more like Seven Hills or CCD. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks....
 
Look up photos of their chapel- it is stunning! Only alumni and faculty can get married there. The pews were hand carved by the Sisters of Norte Dame and the floor is made of tiles hand placed by them.
 
They gamed the system. No reason to debate it. The used the grey area to their advantage. They let them do it. No DIII have enough boys for 3 teams in many cases not enough for a full JV or a JV at all. Page is turned time to let it go.


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I still don’t get how schools with less than 700 students is considered D1 against school that have over a 1000 plus students. Why can’t the state go to additional divisions like football


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