𝐶𝑜𝑚𝑝𝑒𝑡𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝐵𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑛𝑐𝑒

[CMH FB]

Our form of “competitive balance” is a complete joke.

Programs who haven’t won a playoff games in years continue to stay in the same classification, and at the poor ones, if they have a few good players, they are gone by 10th Grade.

Competitive Balance?
Glenville
TCC
Massillon Washington (so much legacy…yet D2)
Maria Stein Marion Local

…to name a few. Shouldn’t they have moved up a classificiation or two with their success this decade if we really have competitive balance?

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Great games last night! Just sticking up for the underdogs.

 

[TigerPaw]

Our form of “competitive balance” is a complete joke.

Programs who haven’t won a playoff games in years continue to stay in the same classification, and at the poor ones, if they have a few good players, they are gone by 10th Grade.

Competitive Balance?
Glenville
TCC
Massillon Washington (so much legacy…yet D2)
Maria Stein Marion Local

…to name a few. Shouldn’t they have moved up a classificiation or two with their success this decade if we really have competitive balance?

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Great games last night! Just sticking up for the underdogs.

It is interesting you lump Glenville and Massillon in with teams that have won numerous and consecutive championships in recent years. There is nowhere to bump Ed up to and Hoban would be the team you'd bump up not Massillon, lol. Not that I see much difference between the top 2 divisions these days.

 

[eastisbest]

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Competitive balance is not the same as relegation.

 

[CMH FB]

It is interesting you lump Glenville and Massillon in with teams that have won numerous and consecutive championships in recent years. There is nowhere to bump Ed up to and Hoban would be the team you'd bump up not Massillon, lol. Not that I see much difference between the top 2 divisions these days.

Fully agree with you on Hoban.

There is a massive difference from D1 to D2 other than the top 5 in D2.

 

[murphy13]

Our form of “competitive balance” is a complete joke.

Programs who haven’t won a playoff games in years continue to stay in the same classification, and at the poor ones, if they have a few good players, they are gone by 10th Grade.

Competitive Balance?
Glenville
TCC
Massillon Washington (so much legacy…yet D2)
Maria Stein Marion Local

…to name a few. Shouldn’t they have moved up a classificiation or two with their success this decade if we really have competitive balance?

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Great games last night! Just sticking up for the underdogs.

Competitive balance was meant to get the small urban private schools out of the lower divisions and nothing more.

 

[Stirred not Shaken]

Our form of “competitive balance” is a complete joke.

Programs who haven’t won a playoff games in years continue to stay in the same classification, and at the poor ones, if they have a few good players, they are gone by 10th Grade.

Competitive Balance?
Glenville
TCC
Massillon Washington (so much legacy…yet D2)
Maria Stein Marion Local

…to name a few. Shouldn’t they have moved up a classificiation or two with their success this decade if we really have competitive balance?

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Great games last night! Just sticking up for the underdogs.

May I suggest the bottom dwellers get better. No doubt some schools recruit in football mostly at the D1 - D2 level however wouldn't Trotwood Madison fall in the successful category yet was defeated last night by a Celina team that has had very little success this century. What would be the success criteria for teams that would have to move up? High School football though is all about coaching esp the lower levels have a really good coach you are going to win a lot of games.

 

[TigerPaw]

Competitive balance was meant to get the small urban private schools out of the lower divisions and nothing more.

Bing. Go.

That was the deal to stave off a vote on separation, and D5-D7 schools have a chit ton of votes. Publics now dominate there the way privates dominate upper divs.

 

[CMH FB]

Competitive balance is not the same as relegation.

Competitive balance was meant to get the small urban private schools out of the lower divisions and nothing more.

If private and public (archaically speaking, and not starting that debate) are going to be classified together the they need the rules to be applied to them too.

So perhaps not a competitive balance measure but as mentioned before, competitive balance needs to try to get the bottom dwellers some hope.

Say what you want, athletics boost moral in the school and can’t be more clear, keeps kids out of trouble, especially at-risk students No kids want to play for losing programs

 

[TigerPaw]

May I suggest the bottom dwellers get better. No doubt some schools recruit in football mostly at the D1 - D2 level however wouldn't Trotwood Madison fall in the successful category yet was defeated last night by a Celina team that has had very little success this century. What would be the success criteria for teams that would have to move up? High School football though is all about coaching esp the lower levels have a really good coach you are going to win a lot of games.

We already have fairly drastic CB penalties and transfer restrictions so the only logical criteria I can think to bump up is consecutive titles, or 3 in 5 years, or something like that(???). Idk. I mean what other criteria would there be? There are better solutions imo.

 

[DRB84]

Competitive balance was meant to get the small urban private schools out of the lower divisions and nothing more.

Spot on. Benedictine has D4 enrollment, playing in D2.

 

[irish_buffalo]

Competitive balance was meant to get the small urban private schools out of the lower divisions and nothing more.

Agree, and it is really difficult to factor in the use of vouchers as athletic scholarships and smaller private schools controlling exactly who they let in. Toledo Central has 200 boys grades 10-12 and 100 on the football team and with many being college caliber. That does not just happen organically and is not anywhere near the same plane as Massillon getting a couple transfers.

Toledo Central being D3 is an absolute joke. So if anything, they need to tweak CB a bit more to correct the obvious problem.

Cross the border into Michigan, a state that does not subsidize private schools with vouchers as athletic scholarships, and you will see private schools struggling and urban schools doing well (Detroit Cass Tech, Detroit King, River Rouge) as their best and brightest are not poached with tax payer funded scholarship money.

 

[Tiger33]

Our form of “competitive balance” is a complete joke.

Programs who haven’t won a playoff games in years continue to stay in the same classification, and at the poor ones, if they have a few good players, they are gone by 10th Grade.

Competitive Balance?
Glenville
TCC
Massillon Washington (so much legacy…yet D2)
Maria Stein Marion Local

…to name a few. Shouldn’t they have moved up a classificiation or two with their success this decade if we really have competitive balance?

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Great games last night! Just sticking up for the underdogs.

So much legacy yet D2? What’s that supposed to mean? We have no control over that. But we do have control over every team we have played and whipped.

 

[Spread All Day]

Relegation style like the European soccer leagues could be cool.
But hs football is so cyclical. Teams would be moving every year. Unless they did it on an average of wins over the past like 3-5 years

 

[CMH FB]

Relegation style like the European soccer leagues could be cool.
But hs football is so cyclical. Teams would be moving every year. Unless they did it on an average of wins over the past like 3-5 years

Ehh. Seems to be the same suspects from NE and SW Ohio every year winning it.

The bottom 25% of teams in each region, I’d say with the exception of maybe a few teams have been doormats for years and for most the trend follows for other sports too.

 

[NEOfan]

Our form of “competitive balance” is a complete joke.

Programs who haven’t won a playoff games in years continue to stay in the same classification, and at the poor ones, if they have a few good players, they are gone by 10th Grade.

Competitive Balance?
Glenville
TCC
Massillon Washington (so much legacy…yet D2)
Maria Stein Marion Local

…to name a few. Shouldn’t they have moved up a classificiation or two with their success this decade if we really have competitive balance?

Just understanding how it’s supposed to work, because it doesn’t, especially for the bottom dwellers.

Great games last night! Just sticking up for the underdogs

CB aint perfect but how do 4 completely schools with different demographics show us its failing? Also isnt Maria Stein the only one of these schools with multiple championships in the past five years? What set of rules would fix this outside of an Open Division?

 

[Caleb]

I don't know about the lower divisions but how about schools in D1 and D2 stop taking athletes from 2 and 3 counties away but hey that's just me so the answer is there's no good answer

 

[goshengophers]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm misremembering, but the first competitive balance vote included a provision where teams would move up a division based on their success over the previous x number of years.
It was soundly defeated and most of the no voters who would go on the record said that particular provision was the reason.

 

[Jaws31]

If private and public (archaically speaking, and not starting that debate) are going to be classified together the they need the rules to be applied to them too.

So perhaps not a competitive balance measure but as mentioned before, competitive balance needs to try to get the bottom dwellers some hope.

Say what you want, athletics boost moral in the school and can’t be more clear, keeps kids out of trouble, especially at-risk students No kids want to play for losing programs

So your version of competitive balance is to ensure everyone gets a trophy?

 

[Blue Jay Fan]

competitive balance was aimed more towards teams like Richmond Heights in basketball. As long as parents and schools/coaches are okay with stacking teams no rules or regulations will stop it.

 

[underthelights]

Toledo winning the DII state title last year and then moving down to DIII this year is the most egregious example of the flaw in the current competitive balance system.

 

[WJ-OSU-STEELERS]

Bing. Go.

That was the deal to stave off a vote on separation, and D5-D7 schools have a chit ton of votes. Publics now dominate there the way privates dominate upper divs.

In Div5-7 it’s not public or private dominate; it’s Marion Local, Kirtland & Coldwater who have dominated for the last 20 years. All 3 are public but Marion Local is as “Catholic” as any Catholic school in the state.

Competitive Balance basically bumped up most private schools by 1 division. As for Division 1, just no where to send those schools.

 

[Downtime]

Competitive balance was meant to get the small urban private schools out of the lower divisions and nothing more.

What about the public schools with open enrollment, like glenville for one?

 

[Jaws31]

What about the public schools with open enrollment, like glenville for one?

75% of public schools in ohio are open enrollment. Competitive balance works exactly as it should. If a team is sad because they got beat then they need to get better. Its just that simple.

 

[murphy13]

What about the public schools with open enrollment, like glenville for one?

Glenville's CB score is 0.
Open enrollment is hardly an advantage especially if you put things on a per capita scale, private schools and closed enrollment publics win disproportionately more championships across the board than their open enrollment competitors.


Again this move was to avoid the Wayne County types from leading the charge on separation.

 

[CMH FB]

75% of public schools in ohio are open enrollment. Competitive balance works exactly as it should. If a team is sad because they got beat then they need to get better. Its just that simple.

Okay, as someone with experience in the past at inner city schools. It’s not possible to “just get better”. It’s virtually impossible in this century for them to build a program.

So we just penalize these kids?

“Hey your enrollment is the same as the kids 3 miles north of you who have time and parents to take them to camps, private trainers, etc. You have zero chance to win a playoff game year in year out but it’s cool”

This isn’t a “everyone gets a trophy”, it’s “hey, these kids are already three steps behind, put them somewhere where they can compete.”

 

[MassillonK1D330]

75% of public schools in ohio are open enrollment. Competitive balance works exactly as it should. If a team is sad because they got beat then they need to get better. Its just that simple.

I think he is mad because of what Massillon did to Westerville South last night. I personally feel like if Westerville had one school they would be pretty good or if they had just two schools

 

[The Dock]

Okay, as someone with experience in the past at inner city schools. It’s not possible to “just get better”. It’s virtually impossible in this century for them to build a program.

So we just penalize these kids?

There’s no way to legislate, or write in, a system that gives the inner-city schools a puncher’s chance.

 

[The Dock]

I think he is mad because of what Massillon did to Westerville South last night. I personally feel like if Westerville had one school they would be pretty good or if they had just two schools

Same beatdown would’ve happened if Green played W South instead of the Tigers.

 

[The Dock]

Same beatdown would’ve happened if Green played W South instead of the Tigers.

to be clear, the essence of this is the Stark County flight of R7 is just that much better than the OCC side of R7.

 

[Jaws31]

Okay, as someone with experience in the past at inner city schools. It’s not possible to “just get better”. It’s virtually impossible in this century for them to build a program.

So we just penalize these kids?

“Hey your enrollment is the same as the kids 3 miles north of you who have time and parents to take them to camps, private trainers, etc. You have zero chance to win a playoff game year in year out but it’s cool”

This isn’t a “everyone gets a trophy”, it’s “hey, these kids are already three steps behind, put them somewhere where they can compete.”

How are kids being penalized? How can they not get better? You are saying you want good teams to get moved to other divisions so that inner city teams can win. That is exactly the mentality of "everyone gets a trophy". Poor me attitudes are why teams don't win and people don't have success. I understand the challenges of inner city schools, but they can still be successful.