usawrestling
Active member
Where it 2023-24 rule book is it.?. don;t see it, but if we are going by letter of law, a flying squirrel is a somersault over their opponent.. that did not happen in the match.
D 1 106 Final
- Thread starter Redflagday
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sepirate86
Active member
Cartwheel, not a hurdle or a flying squirrel, completely legal. Control on the other hand is highly questionable.
ShootNation
Well-known member
A cartwheel requires your hands to be on the ground, they were not in this situation
TopBottomNeutralDefer
Member
Fine then call it an aerial cartwheel. He snapped the hands out of the way and went to the side. His feet didn't go over his head, they went to the side. Its literally almost the same situation in a front headlock when you snap, snap, change direction, snap and leap to clear your feet so they dont grab at your feet... except he was standing. there was ZERO illegal in that move.
and if you.
Pause the video,. you'll see both of Dodds hands on the mat and the Ref awarding the TWO at the same time. One could even argue that when Dodd circled to face Bickerton was his reaction time.. Yes it was a very close call. and I do agree with another poster who mentioned had this happened in the second period instead they'd likely let them wrestle through.. I believe Vegas had the line for Highland at .5 for state champs. might want to call Nevada and see if you can get your money back.
That would have been control in college. In high school, within reaction time becomes a more important variable to if criteria was met. I thought they were still in a scramble, but when time ran out, it was exactly as you said. So it comes down to the official's judgment of reaction time.
ShootNation
Well-known member
Rule 7, Art 5.w
"a back flip from the standing position, or a front flip and/or front hurdle over
an opponent in the standing position"
It doesn't matter where the feet go, it matters if the opponent is in the standing position at the beginning of the interaction and they are in this case. Later in the evening Attisano of Legacy Christian hit two flying squirrels during his tech fall to claim the state title where the opponent was grounded, both were completely legal. It's a nuanced rule that I don't blame people for.not understanding but you would think in the state finals this would be a call SOMEBODY in stripes could have gotten correct
DubShamrock
New member
Go take an officiating course.
sepirate86
Active member
Itt was not a hurdle, nor was it a flying squirrel
Tough call. Reaction time is defined as "two seconds or less." It's been a point of contention all year and needs to be cleaned up. He had control, "two second or less."
Correct.
The rule states no "forward flip." 7-1-5w. He didn't flip forward, meaning like a summersault, he spun around, facing down the whole time. More a slide by, like a frisbee. And for sure not a hurdle and not a flying squirrel. A flying squirrel if where the offensive wrestler dives over and ends up with his butt above his head, grabbing from behind. It was made illegal because it puts that wrestler in a piledriver position. Two all day.
Correct. Rule 7-1-5w, no forward flip. He was face down the whole spin by.
You cite correct rule. But interpretted it wrong.
"a back flip from the standing position, or a front flip and/or front hurdle over
an opponent in the standing position."
No back flip. No front flip. Not a hurdle over his opponent. He spun sideways around him, more like a slide by. No rule about leaving his feet.
The only thing was that th opponent was standing. Most takedowns are from that situation.
For those who don't know the rule, and quite a few here don't... NFHS 2023-24, 7-1-5w: it is illegal to do, "a back flip from the standing position, or a front flip and/or front hurdle over an opponent in the standing position." Clearly wasn't a back flip. Not a front flip, he never went forward like a summersault, he spun around like frisbee, always facing downward. He didn't hurdle him, he spun around the side.
The only real question is was there reaction time. That's a subjective call by the ref(s), which is often debateable.
Not a back flip, front flip or hurdle. So, doesn't matter if opponent was on feet. You can clearly see in the photo you posted, he is spinning around, not hurdling and he is face down, not flipping. You didn't understand the rule of didn't see what happened.
The only real question is was there reaction time. That's a subjective call by the ref(s), which is often debateable.
What he did was 100% legal.
usawrestling
Active member
Agree
Assuming the move was legal, the taken down wrestler had hands on the mats in a weight-bearing position with :01 on the clock (which meets takedown criteria). I do not know if the contention from the Perrysburg coach arguing the takedown (at the table) was about the time and/or his wrestler being in a weight-bearing position vs. the question being about the move's legality.
Believe criteria was established IF there was a standing reversal involved (moot point). Because time ran out before any possible scramble could continue I don't believe the officials made an incorrect call. Knowing how elite wrestlers can scramble I think that a few more seconds would have resulted in no control. LOL!! We will never know. In other words, my opinion is that if time would have continued the time he posted to the mat would not have met the criteria for control. Again, just my opinion.
LucMurphy134
Well-known member
ShootNation
Well-known member
If you sat through the rules interpretation meeting the year that these rules got added to the book and watched the video examples they provided this situation is exactly what they ruled as illegal. You seem to be hung up on the direction that the offensive wrestler's feet go after launching himself into the air which does not matter. What matters is if the athletes were in contact before the move began, they weren't, and if the attacking wrestler is attempting to vault their self over the opponent, he was. It's illegal and a pretty black and white situation that isn't really something up to interpretation.
ShootNation
Well-known member
I'll add to this the slide from Duane Morgan's (NFHS Rules Interpretor) PowerPoint presentation from the meeting they covered it with a diagram of what the illegal move is and how it functions. You'll notice the feet of the attacking wrestler go sideways "like a Frisbee" and his chest faces the mat the entire time
WBbleacher creature
Member
Who defined this? Where is it written?
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
There is no such definition to be found in any literature I have ever recieved.
jj150
Active member
What are your thoughts on this situation. I do not know either wrestler you seem to have a great grasp of the rules. Is The move actually legal or not?
Nope. Rules are clear, not front flip, no hurdling.
ShootNation
Well-known member
I'd advise you to look into the definition of "hurdle" then consult the literature from NFHS on the situation, then watch the clip of the event in question. If after all that you still conclude it's a legal maneuver I would strongly advise you to either turn in your certifications or never attempt to become an official
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
Not sure what you are asking but I was referring only to the definition of "reaction time".
I recently heard a line that I liked a lot. If it is faster than reaction time, it is anticipation time.
View attachment 55706
View attachment 55707
The only thing that didn't happen from the slide or the rationale was both wrestlers remained standing after. This is illegal by the book and rationale given.