nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Central was on the receiving end that year of a lot of frustration that they'd inflicted on others over the previous decade. They got hammered by everyone on their schedule.
i would argue that the frustration has never stopped for some schools, just based off looking at scores vs CC.Central was on the receiving end that year of a lot of frustration that they'd inflicted on others over the previous decade. They got hammered by everyone on their schedule.
I’ve never had the feeling that Shawnee was pouring it on. It was just a case of a really really bad team playing a pretty good team in a rivalry game. I think the decision to end the series was already in the making as Central enrollment kept dropping. They also stopped the KR fb series. Fortunately enrollment seems to have leveled off and marginally increased.I was at the game. They were playing Freshman by the beginning of the 4th. There was only so much they could do when handing the ball off every play is still resulting in scoring. And having played in this rivalry myself, there was a lot of bad blood on both sides so please don't make it sound like Shawnee has no class and Central is Jesus incarnate.
I missed seeing the 2007 state semis versus Newark Catholic but thought after the finals that could have been Central raising the title trophy. That was an "great" SCC team, wow, wow, wow. If you were apart of that team, I send a belated congratulations and you guys were fun to watch with Wagner and gang. It is good to see SCC increasing numbers and having some success.I’ve never had the feeling that Shawnee was pouring it on. It was just a case of a really really bad team playing a pretty good team in a rivalry game. I think the decision to end the series was already in the making as Central enrollment kept dropping. They also stopped the KR fb series. Fortunately enrollment seems to have leveled off and marginally increased.
I think Greenon's frustration goes back to the early 90's when SCC went to the finals with several Greenon kids. When Greenon and SCC would scrimmage each other in the mid-later 90's , things would get testy and those scrimmages were probably the last I have seen, there was not of love lost between those two schools. I think a lot animosity was brought over to Greenon by John Hill, SCC alum and asst. coach at SCC, to try to one up Dewitt.i would argue that the frustration has never stopped for some schools, just based off looking at scores vs CC.
i haven’t heard many stories but i know there’s still some animosity between the programs today.. the 2020 and 2021 games were some of the more chippy games i’ve witnessed.I think Greenon's frustration goes back to the early 90's when SCC went to the finals with several Greenon kids. When Greenon and SCC would scrimmage each other in the mid-later 90's , things would get testy and those scrimmages were probably the last I have seen, there was not of love lost between those two schools. I think a lot animosity was brought over to Greenon by John Hill, SCC alum and asst. coach at SCC, to try to one up Dewitt.
Here is a brief history as told to me by a buddy and I apologize for the long post. Hill was hired in 91-92 timeframe and from what I understand, he was a good coach and what Greenon needed at the time. He brought the same offense and defense over to GHS from SCC (Power eye and 5-2) and being a first time HC tried to make his mark. There was a lot of familiarity between the SCC and GHS kids do to proximity and that is probably where the chippiness came from and to a certain extent exists today . There were many people that felt that hiring Hill was nepotism, since his uncle was the GHS principle. You'll probably have to go back and look at GHS records, if they exist, from the early 90s but I will tell you, they were not good. I think Hill had one maybe two winning seasons over 9-10 years. GHS was DIII, had 50-60 kids on the roster, really big lineman and fast skill kids but they never could compete in the CBC, unless it was against Northwestern. When SCC went to the finals in 89-90ish, there were several GHS kids on that team...IMO, the 07 SCC team was all SCC kids and that parent may have misspoke with my reason stated later.i haven’t heard many stories but i know there’s still some animosity between the programs today.. the 2020 and 2021 games were some of the more chippy games i’ve witnessed.
while i don’t know anything about the 90’s at Greenon, i heard a parent in the stands at a Greenon-CC game in 2017 say that the ‘07 CC team who made it to the semifinals had a couple of Greenon kids playing big roles. how true is that? i do not know..
IMO, GHS was a school system that failed the kids. They had the kids, they just didn't have the adults.Reading the post above about Greenon’s football history…..I now see how the school had a 30 something game losing streak in the early 2010’s.
IMO, hearing from those at Mech, GV, WL-S and WJ in how their programs run, how their parent/community interact and just generally hearing about their culture that would be beneficial to build a better conference. Even NE folks, they had been down for awhile and seem to be on the upswing. I am also interested in hearing their insights.i think everything that Gamma said was spot on..
my one question for all you other football nuts.. and i would like to see some legitimate answers..
what is stopping Greenon from becoming a “football community” compared to the likes of Mechanicsburg, Jamestown, and West Jefferson? culture, and that’s the obvious answer. and i mean culture within the community, not just the program. but why is it different? why are the people within Enon and Mad River township so different? Greenon has had a lot of talent some years but has just underperformed (prior to the current coaching staff).
i think everything that Gamma said was spot on..
my one question for all you other football nuts.. and i would like to see some legitimate answers..
what is stopping Greenon from becoming a “football community” compared to the likes of Mechanicsburg, Jamestown, and West Jefferson? culture, and that’s the obvious answer. and i mean culture within the community, not just the program. but why is it different? why are the people within Enon and Mad River township so different? Greenon has had a lot of talent some years but has just underperformed (prior to the current coaching staff).
Color, i’m sorry for your exclusion and WLS rightful deserves on that list the thing about WLS is that they have so many other good athletic programs that it almost overshadows the success on the gridiron they’ve had.First, I do want to say that I don't consider any OHC team necessarily a "football community." West Jefferson is probably the closest, because that's all they care about over there.
What builds a great culture? I'm going to use the 2 schools that I'm most familiar with to give my opinion. It's getting the right man at the helm. Mechancisburg was a mediocre football program up until 1999. Neal Kasner came in and developed a plan of discipline/work ethic/strength training/camaraderie, and got kids to buy in. WL-S was a mediocre football program up until about 2000. Toby Smith came in and developed the same plan. Both coaches got the most out of what they had by developing kids into assignment football players. Once success happens on the field/court, fans start coming to games and stop questioning a coach and his decision making. Kids who didn't play sports, but are athletic, start to play that sport. Numbers increase and everyone involved cares a little more.
The kids over in Mercer County aren't any stronger, faster, or more athletic than the kids in Champaign, Clark, Greene, or Madison Counties. What's the difference (again, in my opinion)? Those kids are harder workers and more disciplined. They don't care about individual success as much as winning their assigned individual battle to help the team. Their parents and communities are better/bigger supporters. They aren't calling coaches to complain about playing time, or questioning play calling Saturday morning that occurred on Friday night. They have a system in place, and everyone associated with those schools (parents, players, fans) believe in it whole heartedly.
Neal Kasner, Toby Smith and Shawn Buescher are the closest any OHC schools have come to obtaining some of the aforementioned "culture." So to circle back around, it starts with the right hire by the school boards/AD.
Finally, on a more personal, homer/sensitive WLS_Color note, stop excluding WLS from the top tier of football in the OHC, . Greeneview has had some overall better seasons the last 3-4 years; but historically it's not even close (WLS leads the all-time series 15-3).
OHC Record:
West Liberty-Salem 112-37 (.752%)
Greeneview 62-88 (.413%)
Greeneview has done a great job rejuvenating the program, and full credit to Coach Kasner for turning that around and the coaches after for continuing to build the program.
Color, i’m sorry for your exclusion and WLS rightful deserves on that list the thing about WLS is that they have so many other good athletic programs that it almost overshadows the success on the gridiron they’ve had.
while i fully agree that hiring the right man is the important part.. i think there’s a community aspect to it as well, and i think that’s what places like Greenon have yet to figure out. you mentioned the belief in the system/trust that they have in MAC-land.. but how is that developed in the first place? is it due to having a better quality of people that were raised the right way? it all had to start somewhere.
according to what some within the Greenon program have said, i’m too negative. oh well, i’d argue i am much more interested in and care about the Greenon program than others. i have coached high school football for a few brief years, and i understand what having a great football program can do for a community. football is just an afterthought to many in Enon, but how can that be changed?
This!!! I would like to point out I did not exclude WL-S like Knightsfan,First, I do want to say that I don't consider any OHC team necessarily a "football community." West Jefferson is probably the closest, because that's all they care about over there.
What builds a great culture? I'm going to use the 2 schools that I'm most familiar with to give my opinion. It's getting the right man at the helm. Mechancisburg was a mediocre football program up until 1999. Neal Kasner came in and developed a plan of discipline/work ethic/strength training/camaraderie, and got kids to buy in. WL-S was a mediocre football program up until about 2000. Toby Smith came in and developed the same plan. Both coaches got the most out of what they had by developing kids into assignment football players. Once success happens on the field/court, fans start coming to games and stop questioning a coach and his decision making. Kids who didn't play sports, but are athletic, start to play that sport. Numbers increase and everyone involved cares a little more.
The kids over in Mercer County aren't any stronger, faster, or more athletic than the kids in Champaign, Clark, Greene, or Madison Counties. What's the difference (again, in my opinion)? Those kids are harder workers and more disciplined. They don't care about individual success as much as winning their assigned individual battle to help the team. Their parents and communities are better/bigger supporters. They aren't calling coaches to complain about playing time, or questioning play calling Saturday morning that occurred on Friday night. They have a system in place, and everyone associated with those schools (parents, players, fans) believe in it whole heartedly.
Neal Kasner (now Kurt Forrest), Toby Smith (now Dan McGill), and Shawn Buescher are the closest any OHC schools have come to obtaining some of the aforementioned "culture." So to circle back around, it starts with the right hire by the school boards/AD. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever get to a point where our communities buy in like our friends to the west do. Which means, we won't get the kids to do so either.
Finally, on a more personal, homer/sensitive WLS_Color note, stop excluding WLS from the top tier of football in the OHC, . Greeneview has had some overall better seasons the last 3-4 years; but historically it's not even close (WLS leads the all-time series 15-3).
OHC Record:
West Liberty-Salem 112-37 (.752%)
Greeneview 62-88 (.413%)
Greeneview has done a great job rejuvenating the program, and full credit to Coach Kasner for turning that around and the coaches after for continuing to build the program.
Color, i’m sorry for your exclusion and WLS rightful deserves on that list the thing about WLS is that they have so many other good athletic programs that it almost overshadows the success on the gridiron they’ve had.
while i fully agree that hiring the right man is the important part.. i think there’s a community aspect to it as well, and i think that’s what places like Greenon have yet to figure out. you mentioned the belief in the system/trust that they have in MAC-land.. but how is that developed in the first place? is it due to having a better quality of people that were raised the right way? it all had to start somewhere.
according to what some within the Greenon program have said, i’m too negative. oh well, i’d argue i am much more interested in and care about the Greenon program than others. i have coached high school football for a few brief years, and i understand what having a great football program can do for a community. football is just an afterthought to many in Enon, but how can that be changed?
Surely your Mennonite friends wont be reading this....if so are they really Mennonites?A huge community aspect. Enon, West Liberty, South Charleston, Jamestown, Mechancisburg....we are never going to be Coldwater, Maria Stein, Versailles, Minster. Not going to happen. While they're High School sport arrogant over there (as they rightfully should be), they are legitimately just good, kick your and help you up after human beings. Drive through one of those communities and tell me you can't tell the difference just visually. A good, wholesome, hard working life is on full display at every turn. I've considered building a few Catholic churches in West Liberty; our Mennonite gig just can't compete. Haha. (just jokes, to my Mennonite friends)
Gamma, most of West Liberty is the branch of Mennonite where you can have electricity, internet, and even sneak alcohol (but bury it in the bottom of your recycling can after).Surely your Mennonite friends wont be reading this....if so are they really Mennonites?
First, I do want to say that I don't consider any OHC team necessarily a "football community." West Jefferson is probably the closest, because that's all they care about over there.
so what i’m getting out of all this.. the catholics over in Mercer county were just raised better than the protestants in OHC-landA huge community aspect. Enon, West Liberty, South Charleston, Jamestown, Mechancisburg....we are never going to be Coldwater, Maria Stein, Versailles, Minster. Not going to happen. While they're High School sport arrogant over there (as they rightfully should be), they are legitimately just good, kick your @$$ and help you up after human beings. Drive through one of those communities and tell me you can't tell the difference just visually. A good, wholesome, hard working life is on full display at every turn. I've considered building a few Catholic churches in West Liberty; our Mennonite gig just can't compete. Haha. (just jokes, to my Mennonite friends)
I'm just curious to when WJ jumps to another league. I look at them as the London, Alder of the CBC and wonder how long they will stay in conference. There is a lot going on in WJ that is not or may not be on par with the rest of the OHC...as you mentioned with baseball. When does Columbus absorb those schools in athletics?Wls_color - Good to hear from you but I have to completely disagree with you regarding the “football community” comment. I had to read it twice, maybe I still misread or misunderstood your comment. You’re right, football is what some only care about in WJ. However the Riders have a kid pitching for the LA Dodgers, a kid just got drafted by the NY Yankees and a senior softball pitcher who signed with Arizona - that’s something to be proud of as a community.
But make no mistake about it: WJ always has, is and always will be a football community.
I definitely think of Mechanicsbug as a football town. The rest of the OHC, no. Doesn’t mean the rest of the OHC can’t compete but when talent is equal, a ‘football community’ will most likely prevail.
I'm just curious to when WJ jumps to another league. I look at them as the London, Alder of the CBC and wonder how long they will stay in conference. There is a lot going on in WJ that is not or may not be on par with the rest of the OHC...as you mentioned with baseball. When does Columbus absorb those schools in athletics?
Wls_color - Good to hear from you but I have to completely disagree with you regarding the “football community” comment. I had to read it twice, maybe I still misread or misunderstood your comment. You’re right, football is what some only care about in WJ. However the Riders have a kid pitching for the LA Dodgers, a kid just got drafted by the NY Yankees and a senior softball pitcher who signed with Arizona - that’s something to be proud of as a community.
But make no mistake about it: WJ always has, is and always will be a football community.
I definitely think of Mechanicsbug as a football town. The rest of the OHC, no. Doesn’t mean the rest of the OHC can’t compete but when talent is equal, a ‘football community’ will most likely prevail.
Yes great summary from Gamma. To add on….in the early 90s Greenon lost basically every talented player from a full class to SCC. They all transferred out after their freshman year. As to why Enon has never been a football community I believe it has something to do with the nearby People’s Republic of Yellow Springs. It takes a few miles for the anti football and ultra-liberal attitudes to thin out since the cloud is so thick over that towni think everything that Gamma said was spot on..
my one question for all you other football nuts.. and i would like to see some legitimate answers..
what is stopping Greenon from becoming a “football community” compared to the likes of Mechanicsburg, Jamestown, and West Jefferson? culture, and that’s the obvious answer. and i mean culture within the community, not just the program. but why is it different? why are the people within Enon and Mad River township so different? Greenon has had a lot of talent some years but has just underperformed (prior to the current coaching staff).
I think Burg is as much of a "football" community as WJ!Let me clarify. Just because I think West Jeff is the closest to a football community that the OHC has, doesn't mean I am discrediting anything else they do. When I think of a "sports" community for a school, I think of where the school can compete at a state level.
IMO, WL-S is a running school, Mechanicsburg is a bowling and wrestling school, Greeneview is a soccer school, etc. All 3 schools are pretty good at a lot of sports, but to have the title of a "_______" community, you need to compete at the highest level in that sport. Hence saying West Jeff is the closest to a football community in the OHC (it was a compliment to their football team, not a knock on their other sports).