EHS 2001
Moderator
Where is "here"? Lakota schools or Northwest schools? Those are two totally different districts. Or are we just allowing kids to play for whatever school they want as long as it's not an evil private school?
GCL vs. GMC playoff games 2021
- Thread starter Pope Francis 1
- Start date
Havenwood
Active member
Well Mickey the population we are all talking about here is the athletes on this thread. That is upper teir 85-90% athletes going for sports. You can’t convince me they say mom I want to go to X for academics. Just don’t happen. Parents these days are crazy and all think Johnny is going to the league.
I mean yeah for the GCL they load up, that’s why I like what West did they kept their kids at home and are the only school that can rival the GCL. Good for them man, they aren’t getting bullied. Mason is the only other school that could do this but they lose a lot of there incoming fresh to GCL schools and it kills their program. As you see.
Havenwood
Active member
I don’t think private schools are evil. To each their own, I was just saying you can’t compare success, That’s idiotic.
MickeyMantle
Well-known member
Well, that's fine that we are talking about athletes here. That doesn't change the fact that the private schools are recruiting all students and not specifically athletes. You could say getting good athletes along for the ride is a happy side effect.
I'm sure it does happen ... and for other opportunities as well. Besides, it's none of anybody's business why a child wants to go to a school or why parents decide on a school. The Mason High School athletics program doesn't have any more right to a kid attending than Moeller does.
Havenwood
Active member
We’re not saying it isn’t fair Mickey we are saying can’t compare. Waste of time. I just don’t wanna here people say these athletes go to the GCL for academics cause that’s hogwash. Small percentage maybe, but it’s small.
4GX
Well-known member
Well, as I said, by ANY objective measure you'd care to cite, Sycamore is a better academic school than Moeller:
Average ACT Scores:
Sycamore- 29
Moeller- 28 or 25 (depending on source cited-- 28 on Niche.com; 25 on PrivateSchoolReview.com)
Average SAT Scores:
Sycamore- 1320
Moeller- 1220
Advanced Placement Class Participation:
Sycamore- 57%
Moeller- 27% (Niche.com)
National Merit Finalist Scholars (2021):
Sycamore- 22
Moeller- 0
School Rankings:
Sycamore- 10th out of 746 Public Schools in Ohio
Moeller- 28th out of 145 Private Schools in Ohio (Niche.com)*
*- Unfortunately, it is hard to get a listing which combines both public and private schools in one overall ranking system-- but the STEM rankings (below) do just that:
Sycamore- 31st out of 212 Ohio High Schools for "STEM" education
Moeller- 72nd out of 212 Ohio High Schools for "STEM" education (Niche.com)
It is hard to argue that Moeller is better than Sycamore academically-- I see NO data to support that argument.
4GX
Well-known member
The reason we can't convince you of this, is because you did not GO to X; the majority of kids that attend X do NOT even play a sport-- and the vast majority do NOT go to X for athletics-- they go for academics FAR more often than for athletics. When I was there, the ONLY kids in the school who EXPRESSLY came to X for the athletics were the swimmers. X was mediocre in football then, and Moeller dominated the sport at the time (along with Princeton).
Even today, with ~120+ kids on the X varsity football team, that STILL means that less than 1 out of every 6 kids (with 750 in the combined junior and senior classes at X) is playing varsity football-- and 5 out of 6 are NOT. Add in the other kids playing golf (less than 10), soccer (~20), cross-country (~20?), and that's about 170 kids (i.e.- far less 1 in 4) are even playing a fall sport.
The numbers don't change much when you consider winter and spring sports-- especially when you consider that many of the same kids are playing those other sports, while many non-athletes are playing NONE: basketball (~12), swimming/diving (~30?), wrestling (~20), bowling (~8?), hockey (~20?)-- that's another 90 kids-- with many of them already counted once for a fall sport (e.g.- QB McCaughey in hockey), so probably less than 50 additional new kids; then baseball (~20), track/field (~30?), lacrosse (~30?), tennis (~10), volleyball (~20?), rugby (~40?)-- that's 150 more-- but with probably only ~70 new kids, since the same kids who play fall and winter sports tend to make up those spring sports (e.g.- QB McCaughey in baseball, RB Vrsanksy in lacrosse).
Even if every one of those kids only played a single sport, at MOST, you'd have 170+90+150= 410 total, but the real total is probably more like 170+50+70= 290 kids playing sports of the 750 kids in the junior and senior classes-- meaning, again, well less than HALF of all X students play a sport.
MickeyMantle
Well-known member
You're making assumptions. How would you know for what reason — or more likely, reasons — a family makes a decision?
4GX
Well-known member
Well, that's a difficult point to prove objectively-- but, I'd say this-- if the curriculum were harder, logically, one would expect the students coming out the back end of that "harder" curriculum to post better college board scores than those taking an (allegedly) easier curriculum-- but, that is NOT happening at Moeller vs. Sycamore. Also, given the MUCH higher participation in the (more challenging) AP classes at Sycamore than at Moeller, it does not appear that the curriculum is harder at Moeller than Sycamore-- if anything, it would appear to be the opposite. Lastly, one of the things that make a curriculum "harder" is the quality and quantity of the top students in the classes-- since HS classes (like college classes) generally are graded on a curve, having more top students in each class tends to drive up the level of proficiency necessary to get a good grade in any class-- and, clearly, there are far more top students at Sycamore than Moeller (as evidenced by the number of National Merit Finalists at each school).
Havenwood
Active member
Mickey it’s honestly just my opinion with the athletic kids, not student body that’s not.
fish82
Well-known member
Still putting in the effort lol.
TraditionNeverGraduates
Well-known member
So you point is 1600 Boys in the school form all over Greater Cincinnati doesn't give St. X an athletic advantage? LMAO
EHS 2001
Moderator
No. Not as much as many people think. Otherwise GMC schools would never lose.
Sycamore is a much better school than Moeller. That’s not even something that’s really debatable.
4GX
Well-known member
Exactly right-- because, unlike Moeller, where a GOOD NUMBER of the ~900 boys there HAVE been recruited to play sports for Moeller (and even offered preferential financial aid, to induce them to come to Moeller), X really has nobody that was recruited to come play sports for the school-- ALL of X's students were recruited to come be students (in ALL the aspects that that entails-- which is why X students have to score above a fairly high level on the school's admissions test, to be offered admission)-- and, if that happens to involve playing sports, then that's fine too.
But Moeller IS listed as #1 in something-- Niche.com has Moeller as #1 in Cincinnati (and #3 in Ohio, behind Ed and Ig) for "Best High Schools for Athletes in Ohio")-- not sure if that's even accurate any more, but there's one feather in Moeller's cap:
2024 Best High Schools for Athletes in Ohio
Ranking based on statistics and ratings from students and parents.
www.niche.com
EHS 2001
Moderator
In the end, I don't really care where Jyaire Brown attends school or for which team he plays. I just don't want GMC blowhards to act like public schools never get transfers under shady circumstances.
I wouldn’t really trust Niche as a reputable source on school quality for what its worth.Exactly right-- because, unlike Moeller, where a GOOD NUMBER of the ~900 boys there HAVE been recruited to play sports for Moeller (and even offered preferential financial aid, to induce them to come to Moeller), X really has nobody that was recruited to come play sports for the school-- ALL of X's students were recruited to come be students (in ALL the aspects that that entails-- which is why X students have to score above a fairly high level on the school's admissions test, to be offered admission)-- and, if that happens to involve playing sports, then that's fine too.
But Moeller IS listed as #1 in something-- Niche.com has Moeller as #1 in Cincinnati (and #3 in Ohio, behind Ed and Ig) for "Best High Schools for Athletes in Ohio")-- not sure if that's even accurate any more, but there's one feather in Moeller's cap:
2024 Best High Schools for Athletes in Ohio
Ranking based on statistics and ratings from students and parents.
Just based on reputation, the following are what I would consider the best high schools in the Cincinnati area:
1. Walnut Hills
2. Wyoming
3. St. X
4. St. Ursula
5. Sycamore
6. Indian Hill
7. Madeira
8. Ursuline
9. Mason
10. Turpin
That doesn’t mean that these are the only good high schools. I would consider Mariemont, Moeller, Princeton, Kings, Anderson, and Mt. Notre Dame to all be good high schools as well.
Misread the “Best High Schools FOR ATHLETES” part. Yea, Moeller at #1 sounds about right for that.Exactly right-- because, unlike Moeller, where a GOOD NUMBER of the ~900 boys there HAVE been recruited to play sports for Moeller (and even offered preferential financial aid, to induce them to come to Moeller), X really has nobody that was recruited to come play sports for the school-- ALL of X's students were recruited to come be students (in ALL the aspects that that entails-- which is why X students have to score above a fairly high level on the school's admissions test, to be offered admission)-- and, if that happens to involve playing sports, then that's fine too.
But Moeller IS listed as #1 in something-- Niche.com has Moeller as #1 in Cincinnati (and #3 in Ohio, behind Ed and Ig) for "Best High Schools for Athletes in Ohio")-- not sure if that's even accurate any more, but there's one feather in Moeller's cap:
2024 Best High Schools for Athletes in Ohio
Ranking based on statistics and ratings from students and parents.
4GX
Well-known member
I didn't just look at Niche-- I referenced at least four sites, to get that data. But, as you yourself stated, Sycamore is a better academic school than Moellerr-- and it's really not a close call-- that data that I cited, includes a number of objective data points (e.g.- Average ACT score, Average SAT score, AP Participation rates, National Merit Finalists), that have NOTHING to do with any subjective ratings by Niche.
I'm pretty familiar with Walnut Hills, Wyoming, and X (having first-hand experience with various family members that attended all three)-- there is no doubt in my mind that you have those schools in their reverse order of merit.
fish82
Well-known member
Well, Brown certainly wasn't shady...so hopefully you're not trying to suggest that it was.
And fwiw, West has lost probably 3x as many impact players to transfer over the past 10 years than have transferred in. ?
fish82
Well-known member
Sad to see UA slipping down the list. They were easily Top 3 back 5-6 years ago when my daughters went there.
Pope Francis 1
Well-known member
Current records for 2020 & 2021 playoffs…
GCL 7-0
GMC 0-7
GCL 7-0
GMC 0-7
HSFB Fan
Well-known member
Actually WEST was the beneficiary of the family moving back to Cincinnati. His older brother played for Bolden at Colerain the family was leaving Louisiana regardless. IMG was an option but the family and the player liked Cincinnati and WEST.
Just my opinion, Fish. Ursuline is still a very good school and I have come across several smart and successful people that went there.
Pope Francis 1
Well-known member
Did any of our friends from the GMC notice that 3 of the 4 wins by the GCL in 2020 were lower seeded GCL teams upsetting higher seeded GMC teams?
#11 Moeller 43
#6 Hamilton 27
#7 Elder 26
#2 Princeton 21
#3 St. Xavier 10
#1 Lakota West 7
#11 Moeller 43
#6 Hamilton 27
#7 Elder 26
#2 Princeton 21
#3 St. Xavier 10
#1 Lakota West 7
TraditionNeverGraduates
Well-known member
Well you come on these boards and talk a lot about sports, and in particular, Sycamore., so it must be important to you? It's one of Moeller's strengths, (like Ed's and Iggy) and Moeller doesn't apologize for it. What can be said about Sycamore, other than their irrelevance in Ohio D1 athletics?
I appreciate you using the data; I just don't trust the statistics on Niche. There is in no way, shape, or form, though, any possibility that the average ACT at Sycamore is 29 or the average SAT is 1320, because those are absurdly high numbers. My guess would be that those are the averages of the students/parents that report their ACT and SAT scores on Niche (more likely to be the better performing students). That said, Sycamore routinely gets around 20ish National Merit Finalists every year, has a tremendous special education program, and has extracurricular activities in arts, music, and theatre as good as anywhere. I would say that they do need to improve upon developing the lower performing students for success. This is something that Princeton does very well and why I have great respect for them as a school.
Also, by all reputation, Walnut Hills is considered to be the best high school in Ohio. Again, it's not just how they educate the high performing students, but how they educate the entire student body. It's a tremendous high school. Any one of the top 4 that I listed look tremendous on a college application. I would consider Sycamore a step below that, but still coming in as the top large public school in the Cincinnati area.
boothmark77
Well-known member
Didn’t the coaches vote on last year’s seeds/rankings?