Do we need a shot clock in Ohio high school basketball

Bball216 said:
Holding the ball is not strategy.
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Ahh but yes it is a strategy...some teams try to level the playing field by using this strategy. When you hold the ball/run a motion offense that looks to make the opponent play defense for longer periods of time you are bringing the more talented team down to your level as long as you have good ball handlers.

Each possession counts, you can't waste any chances on the offensive end. It also makes your opponent play faster as they are anxious on the offensive end because they aren't getting as many possessions and as many easy shots as they are used to...2004 Holgate team won a state title with maybe 1 kid on that team that anyone else would want on their team.
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
Who cares. Team held the ball and stared at each for quarters. Quarters! It's an abomination.
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Give it up. You are mad because it’s boring to you. I guarantee neither of these coaches lose their job over this like you say they should and you are posting on here while they are getting paid to coach basketball. Sit back and be a fan instead of trying to tell them how to do their job. They obviously know what they are doing because they are in that position and not you!
 
Fayette79 said:
Sitting on the ball is part of the strategy of the high school game...take away some of the strategy and now we are watching a Jr NBA...no discipline and no strategy...leave it the way it is now...give David a chance against Goliath.
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So to give David a chance against Goliath is to not play basketball and just hold the ball. I get it, but that is wack
 
Vike16 said:
So to give David a chance against Goliath is to not play basketball and just hold the ball. I get it, but that is wack
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David would still have to score more points than Goliath which requires putting the ball through the hoop. Pretty sure that is the most important part of basketball.
 
winbypin said:
David would still have to score more points than Goliath which requires putting the ball through the hoop. Pretty sure that is the most important part of basketball.
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I know that the shot clock will never come to Ohio. I don't even get upset with coaches that use stall ball, because it's legal. I just don't think stall ball is a basketball strategy, but a win at all cost strategy. I'm ok with the lesser talented team using the clock to their advantage. I just don't think it's far when a team takes minutes off the clock on 1 possession even if the defense is letting them. Stall ball is not basketball imo that's all
 
Vike16 said:
I know that the shot clock will never come to Ohio. I don't even get upset with coaches that use stall ball, because it's legal. I just don't think stall ball is a basketball strategy, but a win at all cost strategy. I'm ok with the lesser talented team using the clock to their advantage. I just don't think it's far when a team takes minutes off the clock on 1 possession even if the defense is letting them. Stall ball is not basketball imo that's all
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Isn't the point of the game to win?
 
Fayette79 said:
Ahh but yes it is a strategy...some teams try to level the playing field by using this strategy. When you hold the ball/run a motion offense that looks to make the opponent play defense for longer periods of time you are bringing the more talented team down to your level as long as you have good ball handlers.

Each possession counts, you can't waste any chances on the offensive end. It also makes your opponent play faster as they are anxious on the offensive end because they aren't getting as many possessions and as many easy shots as they are used to...2004 Holgate team won a state title with maybe 1 kid on that team that anyone else would want on their team.
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Yes, Holgate played deliberately on offense, but they did not stall. If you watched them play you would notice the other team would hold the ball as long or longer than Holgate due to Holgate's solid defense and fear of lack of possessions. They also had some quality players in those days. Point guard Brubaker was as good as they come, other players Fergeson, Clady, and Sizemore could have played for anyone. I am against a shot clock in HS. I don't like to see stalling, like the Antwerp teams of the 90's did, but I have no problem with running deliberate offenses in trying to control game tempo and leveling the playing field.
 
Lancermania said:
In a Sectional semi-final game Thursday night, Western Hills held the ball for the final 7:41 of the third quarter against Harrison after Harrison opened the second half with a three pointer to cut the Western Hills lead to three.. No one should have to pay to see this ridiculous stall ball tactic. We need a shot clock period. Colleges use a 30 second clock which makes a lot of sense.
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Now we need a shot clock. I think urban schools has been saying this for years. But now that the RABBIT has the GUN now everybody wants to start talking about we need a shot clock. I think no one should have to pay to see a team pass the ball around 40 times before they shoot the ball but they do. Then you go to college and you have shot clock and haven't learned to get your own shot off because you so used to passing the ball around 50 times until a team gets tired or make a mistake to score then at the end of the game it's 32 to 35 then these coaches talking about they were playing great defense. Stop!!!! If we got a shot clock it would end a lot of schools from having success. A lot of these catholic schools would be done.
 
winbypin said:
Isn't the point of the game to win?
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The point is to win but I get a greater satisfaction watching my players get better and ready for the next level. The last college team you saw that played that way was Princeton and where are they now. NO EXISTING. So is the game all about W and L if so wonder why so many of our kids are lost in the sauce? It's bigger than the game.
 
Something To Say said:
Now we need a shot clock. I think urban schools has been saying this for years. But now that the RABBIT has the GUN now everybody wants to start talking about we need a shot clock. I think no one should have to pay to see a team pass the ball around 40 times before they shoot the ball but they do. Then you go to college and you have shot clock and haven't learned to get your own shot off because you so used to passing the ball around 50 times until a team gets tired or make a mistake to score then at the end of the game it's 32 to 35 then these coaches talking about they were playing great defense. Stop!!!! If we got a shot clock it would end a lot of schools from having success. A lot of these catholic schools would be done.
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Just curious why you say that a lot of catholic schools would be done if they had a shot clock?
 
I would be happy if there was a shot clock, but am ok without it.

What I don't like late in a tight game is the coach being able to bail his team out repeatedly with a million timeouts when the defense has done a great job trapping the ball.
 
Something To Say said:
The point is to win but I get a greater satisfaction watching my players get better and ready for the next level. The last college team you saw that played that way was Princeton and where are they now. NO EXISTING. So is the game all about W and L if so wonder why so many of our kids are lost in the sauce? It's bigger than the game.
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Next level? For almost ALL of these players their next game will be in the driveway, the Y, or intramurals in college. Highschool basketball is not about preparing 3% of the athletes for college.
 
Smalls said:
I would be happy if there was a shot clock, but am ok without it.

What I don't like late in a tight game is the coach being able to bail his team out repeatedly with a million timeouts when the defense has done a great job trapping the ball.
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They only get 5 timeouts.
 
winbypin said:
Next level? For almost ALL of these players their next game will be in the driveway, the Y, or intramurals in college. Highschool basketball is not about preparing 3% of the athletes for college.
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And introducing a shot clock is not about getting kids to college.

I have no idea why people keep saying this.

A shot clock improves basketball flow. That's its intent. It's not to score more, it's not to appease fans, it's not to get kids to college.

It's to improve flow. Period.
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
And introducing a shot clock is not about getting kids to college.

I have no idea why people keep saying this.

A shot clock improves basketball flow. That's its intent. It's not to score more, it's not to appease fans, it's not to get kids to college.

It's to improve flow. Period.
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I think you need to go back and read the post I was replying to. THAT poster made the claim, not me. I was simply pointing out that for the overwhelming majority high school will be their last meaningful contest.
 
winbypin said:
Sounds like a preference in styles.
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Not at all. Very objective article. He laid out scenarios for no shot clock, long shot clock, and short shot clock, with some very well thought out rationale for each.

It wasn't superficial over-reaction, and it was done with a high degree of basketball acumen.
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
Not at all. Very objective article. He laid out scenarios for no shot clock, long shot clock, and short shot clock, with some very well thought out rationale for each.

It wasn't superficial over-reaction, and it was done with a high degree of basketball acumen.
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Awesome. And he is the definitive expert on the matter then?

I think he is just another opinion on the matter.
 
Any opinion is open for discussion.

But for some reason, the development and coach control angle can't be brought up here. Those people get ostracized even though those opinions have the deepest understanding of its impact. Much deeper level thought and analysis than the superficial fan that thinks this is about fan attendance, fan wants, college readiness, and more scoring. Those arguments are shallow.
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
Any opinion is open for discussion.

But for some reason, the development and coach control angle can't be brought up here. Those people get ostracized even though those opinions have the deepest understanding of its impact. Much deeper level thought and analysis than the superficial fan that thinks this is about fan attendance, fan wants, college readiness, and more scoring. Those arguments are shallow.
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Those have never been part of my argument.
 
Vike16 said:
Yeah but actually playing basketball and not keep away or just standing there
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Still have to put the ball through the hoop more than the other team....which is the key part of basketball. How you do that is up to each team.
 
winbypin said:
Still have to put the ball through the hoop more than the other team....which is the key part of basketball. How you do that is up to each team.
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Again I get it, but I think each team should have to shoot the ball at some point in a single possession and not hold or play keep away for minutes at a time. You still can slow or stall the game with a shot clock, you just have to take shot a some point
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
Fantastic article on the impacts of a shot clock and how it can impact practice prep, player development and coach control. THIS is exactly what we're talking about. It has nothing to do with scoring, fan interest, or college readiness. This article is spot on and this author gets it.

Impact of Coaching With a Shot Clock | theLLaBB

www.thellabb.com www.thellabb.com
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As a coach, I enjoyed reading the article. A lot of the shot clock things a good coach will have his team doing already instead of waiting for the defense to get bored and mess up.
 
Vike16 said:
Again I get it, but I think each team should have to shoot the ball at some point in a single possession and not hold or play keep away for minutes at a time. You still can slow or stall the game with a shot clock, you just have to take shot a some point
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That is your preference. That is all. You can probably predict the very few games that will be this way each year. I suggest not going since it upsets you so much.
 
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