Happygoluckky
Well-known member
In a non-fact base world it is better to have an uneducated base of voters.
Increase in the share of Americans saying colleges have a negative effect on the US is driven by Republicans changing views. #FoxNewsEffect
- Thread starter Happygoluckky
- Start date
Orin Swift
Well-known member
College degree =/= educated
MoeDude
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
OMG Happy is really stretching it now. So Happy, do you really want a chart showing how many College Graduates have 10s of thousands of dollars of student loan debt and aren't even using that degree to earn a living?!?!? Or better yet have the debt and never graduated with a degree. Besides just because one is not "college educated" does not mean they are "uneducated". That is you passing judgement on someone just like most Liberals do.
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Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Looks like colleges need to clean up their act.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
With all the talk about rising student debt, worthless degrees, and plans to radically change paying for college, why is it only Republicans that are changing their view?
I think it's fair to say that college isn't for everyone and the current system has some issues that are severely hurting our economy right now. Saying that colleges have a negative effect on the country right now isn't that radical of an idea.
I think it's fair to say that college isn't for everyone and the current system has some issues that are severely hurting our economy right now. Saying that colleges have a negative effect on the country right now isn't that radical of an idea.
MoeDude
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Because it's only Republicans that look at these issues rationally! Democrats only analyze how will they benefit at the polls on decision making.
The Dems want an official Cultural Revolution just like Mao.
This can be taught to all the mindless 18 year olds who enter free college.
You get your Little Red Book the first day of free college. Better yet it will be called the Little Green Book this time.
The Dems “Great Leap Forward”. Free Health Care for all, Free College, Mandatory Clean Earth Policies. Mandatory Utopia for All comrades!!!
This can be taught to all the mindless 18 year olds who enter free college.
You get your Little Red Book the first day of free college. Better yet it will be called the Little Green Book this time.
The Dems “Great Leap Forward”. Free Health Care for all, Free College, Mandatory Clean Earth Policies. Mandatory Utopia for All comrades!!!
Because Liberals control the curriculum at most Universities. Why would they espouse viewpoints that are detrimental to their bottom line?
eastisbest
Well-known member
sure, I would. Be interesting to look at your chart.
MoeDude
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
MoeDude
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
The bottomline is Republicans realize that College is not for everyone and we should be pushing training in the trades and other job related areas versus telling everyone they should go to college. Democrats want everyone in college because that is where their indoctrination machine has been in full operation for decades.
I have a cousin who was smart about it. He became a certified electrician versus going to college and he's making a great living working for a major manufacturing firm. I have another friend whose son is showing promise as a carpenter in a woodworking shop at his high school. THis young man has made some awesome looking furniture. I don't think he fully decided yet but he should most likely pursue a career in carpentry versus going to college. We need to start educating youth that college is not the end all answer to post high school career pursuits. But as we see even in Happygoluckky's first post, he passes judgement on people who don't go to college by labeling them "uneducated" but then again that's what the Democrats do, they like to label people and then treat them like dirt if they don't like the label they've placed on them.
I'll never forget several years ago when the student loan issue was first being made public that a young women kept changing her degree goals and ended up with over $100K of student loan debt with a degree in ART? Yea like that will lead her to a financially supportive life after accummulating so much debt.
It also infuriates me that the schools are pushing these young adults into this. My daughter graduated with a degree in English with a minor in business from Ohio State. She wanted to get into publishing so she enrolled in a 10 week course at NYU. After the course she realized she had to stay in NY to get in that career. She worked in the insurance business for 3 years before she finally landed her job at a major publishing company. BUT in the meantime she was attending NYU working on her masters(which now she is being told by professionals in the publishing industry you don't need a master to progress in the publishing industry) I know I've told this story before but it shows how screwed up the system is. While at NYU she had a counselor tell her to quit her job and take a non-paying internship with a publishing company so that she could network her way into a job in publishing. She asked what should she do for living expenses and the adviser said take out more student loans. She and I argued over this because she was actually going to do it. Fortunately a couple of months before she was going to put this in play, she got her dream job with major publishing company. Publishing doesn't pay much until you get to the higher levels so this idiot adviser at NYU was telling her to take on more and more debt which she would have been paying well into her 40s. As it stands she still had $9000 worth of debt that she will pay off in another 2 years but she's been paying on it for the past 5. It's BS and a scam and the universities and government are in on it together.
I have a cousin who was smart about it. He became a certified electrician versus going to college and he's making a great living working for a major manufacturing firm. I have another friend whose son is showing promise as a carpenter in a woodworking shop at his high school. THis young man has made some awesome looking furniture. I don't think he fully decided yet but he should most likely pursue a career in carpentry versus going to college. We need to start educating youth that college is not the end all answer to post high school career pursuits. But as we see even in Happygoluckky's first post, he passes judgement on people who don't go to college by labeling them "uneducated" but then again that's what the Democrats do, they like to label people and then treat them like dirt if they don't like the label they've placed on them.
I'll never forget several years ago when the student loan issue was first being made public that a young women kept changing her degree goals and ended up with over $100K of student loan debt with a degree in ART? Yea like that will lead her to a financially supportive life after accummulating so much debt.
It also infuriates me that the schools are pushing these young adults into this. My daughter graduated with a degree in English with a minor in business from Ohio State. She wanted to get into publishing so she enrolled in a 10 week course at NYU. After the course she realized she had to stay in NY to get in that career. She worked in the insurance business for 3 years before she finally landed her job at a major publishing company. BUT in the meantime she was attending NYU working on her masters(which now she is being told by professionals in the publishing industry you don't need a master to progress in the publishing industry) I know I've told this story before but it shows how screwed up the system is. While at NYU she had a counselor tell her to quit her job and take a non-paying internship with a publishing company so that she could network her way into a job in publishing. She asked what should she do for living expenses and the adviser said take out more student loans. She and I argued over this because she was actually going to do it. Fortunately a couple of months before she was going to put this in play, she got her dream job with major publishing company. Publishing doesn't pay much until you get to the higher levels so this idiot adviser at NYU was telling her to take on more and more debt which she would have been paying well into her 40s. As it stands she still had $9000 worth of debt that she will pay off in another 2 years but she's been paying on it for the past 5. It's BS and a scam and the universities and government are in on it together.
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eastisbest
Well-known member
Just for you eastisbest
thanks. 34.8% of employers of college degreed people require only the college degree, not the major. That's a significant reason to go to college and does not speak to debt. The blurb doesn't describe what is meant by "underemployment" but also does not speak to debt. It's not unusual for graduates to find it's not their major they want to make a life at, regardless it is of interest. Also, doesn't go to existence of debt.
I would suspect, based ONLY on personal observation that it is a very small percentage of students who major in the trades in school, actually go into that trade.
Those are employed people. Regardless it's their "major," college is a life experience many consider positive. Knew quite a few at the factory and in the trades, didn't need that college degree but it's paid and they wouldn't have swapped the experience for anything. Heck, most of them met their spouse there.
It's interesting but doesn't really support any contention about student debt, about college hurting ability to get a job vs. life choice. Any breakdown by major? school? That might be more informative.
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gneiss rocks
Well-known member
In a non-fact based world of Russian collusion, emoluments clause, obstruction, quid pro quo, it is better to have a indoctrinated base of voters.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
eib really doesn’t want to buy it, Moe.
I think it’s safe to say that most anyone using the term “underemployed” is saying that the former student is not earning a salary commensurate with their education, as compared to others with a similar course of study. I guess you’ll need to provide a bibliography, too, to sway that jury ?
I think it’s safe to say that most anyone using the term “underemployed” is saying that the former student is not earning a salary commensurate with their education, as compared to others with a similar course of study. I guess you’ll need to provide a bibliography, too, to sway that jury ?
eastisbest
Well-known member
Buy what?
I don't think that's an unfair definition of "underemployment" but the charts do not address WHY they are underemployed.
Those charts do not tell us what percent simply could not find a job in that major vs. those that chose not to go into that major. It does say many employers are looking for college degrees, regardless major. Do they account for those that didn't follow in their major and make MORE than those in similar course of study?
As I posted, I know many who by choice did not go into their major. They make more at Jeep than they would in Social Work. Or at construction. We had trouble keeping students because the construction companies needed people to stand on the highway and hold flags.
His comment was
Those charts are interesting but they do not reflect the comment nor imply or support a negative. I don't see how they address or counter the thread title. I'm not sure his intent but I was hoping something on default vs. major or the stats on his last statement. Not life and and employer choice.
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eastisbest
Well-known member
In an absolute sense I suppose that's true but I think I would have gone with a counter of
no college degree =/= uneducated.
What Happy's saying really is what we all know, The Dems lost the confidence of the non-college educated WHITE population. But not just. I knew this when Bill came to my mixed race neighborhood to campaign instead of their tradition of pandering to the primarily African-American neighborhood across the river. I'm like, "why is he here?" It became clear when I saw the tepid response from YOUNG mixed race kids. I'd thought they would do the usual we're young we're liberal thing. But nope. I was educated on the current transition taking place. Bill was clueless. He started talking about "brown" (not "black," he was hedging his pandering) people being afraid to leave their houses, intimating they were afraid of the police. I looked at the kids, as rainbow as you could imagine and wondered, which ones he considers "brown" and which ones not? The police are the only thing standing between them brown or not and a crimewave committed but others brown or not.
He was barking up the wrong tree. This generally poor, increasingly mixed race neighborhood over the previous 8 years, had shifted.
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eastisbest
Well-known member
Your forgot the possessive on "teachers."
Hanging curveball, given the question. So, answer?
Which one you think is on teacher's pension?
Happy? Moe? Posts all day every day Cab? Are you working yet?
Happygoluckky
Well-known member
Most Americans believe state spending for public universities and colleges has increased or at least held steady over the last 10 years...it has not particularly in state run by GOP.
www.pbs.org
Most Americans don't realize state funding for higher ed fell by billions
Spending is down by $9 billion over the last decade, driving tuition up and frustrating the search for skilled workers.
www.pbs.org
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
Your forgot the possessive on "teachers."
Hanging curveball, given the question. So, answer?
Which one you think is on teacher's pension?
Happy? Moe? Posts all day every day Cab? Are you working yet?
Work?!
Been there, done that.
chs1971
Too busy travelling to post, methinks
Crusaders
Moderator
Your forgot the possessive on "teachers."
Hanging curveball, given the question. So, answer?
Which one you think is on teacher's pension?
Happy? Moe? Posts all day every day Cab? Are you working yet?
The poster doth protest too much
Crusaders
Moderator
Most Americans believe state spending for public universities and colleges has increased or at least held steady over the last 10 years...it has not particularly in state run by GOP.
Most Americans don't realize state funding for higher ed fell by billions
Spending is down by $9 billion over the last decade, driving tuition up and frustrating the search for skilled workers.
View attachment 4627
My favorite partisan trick: offering univariate "solutions" to multivariate issues
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
Alternate universe, too ? Yet another eib apples/pork chops comparison, in extended deflection for only-God-knows-why?! motivation.
Why would a person making $70k/yr in an auto plant and educated as a social worker be considered "under-employed" while out-earning their educational contemporaries, anyway ? They are "alternately employed", or "employed outside of their field", right ?
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
HaplessGoneLoopy strikes again.
eastisbest
Well-known member
That wasn't protest. That was honest hitting.
Cab, saying it doesn't make it reality.
Your just changed your definition of "under-employed" AND supported the argument I made that those grads are likely not included in the chart statistics, leaving the charts lacking reality that perhaps it's not all that bad. People leave school or do not go into their major for many reasons BY CHOICE. The insinuation was they're not in major because?
If their definition of (and if you're changing yours to) "under-employed" means those making less than others in the same major then hello, we're looking at around 50% for EVERY major, depending upon skew.
AND none of it seems relevent to the thread. MY point was, Moe's response didn't make sense to the discussion but I wanted to see the charts to be sure and because I thought they'd have interesting info. They do, but they make sense in other settings, not this one.
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eastisbest
Well-known member
I tried google translate but the screen just started to smoke. So many conversations going on in this thread, any of them talking about the OP?