John Lee Pettimore
Well-known member
That's your response?
Week 2 Canton McKinley @ Avon
- Thread starter MckBulldawg1237
- Start date
The Bulldogs are very talented and are capable beating everyone on their schedule. Yes, that includes Week 10. That being said, yes…they obviously need to clean up some of the errors.
As for the rest, that was a dud of an officiating crew. Avon had 13 penalties for 114 yards and for the most part I couldn’t tell what they were either because it seemed many times the refs weren’t giving the hand signals. I assume they were relaying the calls to the coaches, but as a fan I was lost on most of them. Don’t know where they came from, but I don’t want to see them again. And I never sat on the visitor side, so I can’t say I know what the lighting and sound is like on that side. I always assumed it was adequate because I have never heard another team’s fans complain about it before. You should pass along your concerns to Avon’s AD Erich Frombach. He’s a good dude. He will react to a legit complaint and improve if possible.
I wonder who McKinley has for Week 2 next year? Avon was certainly willing to renew, but McKinley chose not to do so. And that decision was made months before the game, so they must have someone else lined up. Good luck the rest of the way!
weren't you a GO Eagles fan a while ago?
why the change?
gee do you really think pointing out the obvious to coaches is the move?
spyros1950
Well-known member
Dear Sir, I was raised in Canton from the third grade on... went to Cherry & Roosevelt grade schools... played for McKinley coaches from the seventh grade on... was a varsity starter for the PUPS... played at Fawcett Stadium for three years... graduated from McKinley (Market Ave)... I am 100% BULLDOG!
Regarding the coaching advice: It pains me to write it, but someone has to tell the coaches to start doing the job they were hired to do. More basic - McKinley made THREE interceptions... stopped their opponent on TWO fourth & one plays... recovered an on-side kick... SOOOO, what stopped the PUPS from winning? JUST MY OPINION, maybe it was the 18 penalties for 165 yards!
Lastly, since I am here: Congratulations Avon... you have a great team... Good Luck going forward... Good luck to all, sam
Oil Filter
Well-known member
Just to stir the pot....
I didn’t see it that night, and couldn’t see it on the stream, but I don’t see where the refs see Good’s arm going forward when the ball is loose. I see him make a clear throwing motion right before, but then he turns away from the rush and it’s hard to see his arm or hand at that point. I would call it a fumble or a strip, based on what we can see. I saw that Avon’s D pretty much ran out on to the field after the play, so they didn’t seem to believe Avon was getting the ball back. Good is lobbying the refs, obviously, so he must have heard at least one of them chattering about a possible incompletion. If there was an official with a clear view, god bless him, but I don’t see a forward motion when the ball is loose.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
Based on what I saw from the first replay, it looked like he was trying a Mahomes push pass and the ball didn't go very far. I certainly didn't see a strip. In any event, it's not real clear one way or the other.
Unlike you, I won’t qualify as a fighter pilot - haha. My vision doesn’t allow me to see the forward pass, even if it was a forward toss a la Mahomes. And maybe that’s what happened and an official or two clearly saw it that way enough to fight for it, but I can’t see it from any footage I’ve ever seen. I’m lazy, I guess. I would just rule fumble and live with it.
Bro, lol. When Mahomes does it he is facing the receiver not running in opposite direction. Best case scenario is grounding. In any case the roughing call was insult to injury, dang.
I could buy that, but they ultimately ruled incomplete pass.
McKinley coaches were upset because that play should have either been 1) a fumble/TD or 2) intentional grounding as nobody close in the area where he was trying to push pass. I have watched it several times and believe it was an I'll advised push pass and it should have counted as a sack and loss of down.
They got the call wrong for certain. Crazy game. The best the team can do is learn from some of the mistakes and put it in review mirror.
Yes, I agree, but I don’t like when the refs make themselves such a big part of the game. I think we all know you could probably call a penalty of each team every play if you wanted to call it to the letter of the rules, but at some point you have to just let them play football and only call the egregious stuff. And I understand being an official is a tough job, especially at the high school level with all of us armchair QBs and abuse they take from coaches for very little financial reward, but an overzealous crew can really detract from a game between two talented teams. You want the players to stand out, not the officiating.
Very!That's brutal.
I was in the stands and after the game and I watched a couple of plays on youtube. are you talking about the fumble returned for a TD that was changed to an incomplete pass?
This right here. Live, I thought it was a fumble. Could not find the play on the 2 streams, but saw highlights from OhioSportsnet on youtube. It took a couple of looks for me to see what you saw. Ultimately, the refs got the incomplete pass part right but yeah should have been intentional grounding. i think the ref in his motioning was trying to explain that it was an incomplete pass but made it look like it was a roughing the passer call? good for them for getting together to talk about it.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
I think he was trying (quite unsuccessfully) to get the ball to #21. It looked to me like the original play call may have been a screen to the left (to the aforementioned #21), but that's just a guess. In one of the replays you can clearly see the QB's arm at full extension as it would be after a push pass. What you don't see after he starts to spin away is the ball -- but it clearly didn't go very far.
Looks like your re-stirring of the pot has helped to clarify what happened, since we sure couldn't tell at the field or from the streams. Even these views are tough to judge. And it might not even be as controversial as it was if the refs hadn't called so many gdam penalties all game long. The game had zero flow. And it's a shame the talent on the field was not allowed to fully shine.
everyone sees what they want
I saw the kid pump the ball and then do a centerfield turn all the way around to his right and lose the ball
in the event there is an argument it was an incomplete pass then it would be intentional grounding
not sure how getting tackled from around the waist is roughing
doesn't matter garbage call but those are the breaks - get better - get ready for next
I saw the kid pump the ball and then do a centerfield turn all the way around to his right and lose the ball
in the event there is an argument it was an incomplete pass then it would be intentional grounding
not sure how getting tackled from around the waist is roughing
doesn't matter garbage call but those are the breaks - get better - get ready for next
AllSports12
Moderator
Many people on here fail to realize the the Intentional Grounding rule changed in 2022. In addition, Ohio has interpreted this rule as follows....
If the passer is being contacted (including tugging or pulling of the jersey) by a defender, then the passer cannot be guilty of a foul for Intentional Grounding.
Like it or not (I hate it), that's the edict from our bosses.
If the passer is being contacted (including tugging or pulling of the jersey) by a defender, then the passer cannot be guilty of a foul for Intentional Grounding.
Like it or not (I hate it), that's the edict from our bosses.
Oil Filter
Well-known member
And another (perhaps the best) view:
Bluestreakoffice
Well-known member
If the QB is outside the tackle box high school now allows him to do what college and pro does....it looks intentional grounding but is allowed
then in this case it is a fumble
he was not outside the tackle box so this could be moot
either way the call was made - Avon narrowly escapes the game with the W when many predicted a cake walk
time to get ready for week 3 but good rules discussion
AllSports12
Moderator
A passer is defined as "a player who throws a legal forward pass". Therefore a passer cannot fumble the ball.
Not by the interpretation of the OHSAA.
CantonAnon
Well-known member
Does the ball not need to go beyond the line of scrimmage when throwing the ball away at the high school level?
jw460
Well-known member
Rule 7-5-2 EXCEPTION 2 now permits a player to purposefully throw an incomplete forward pass without warranting an intentional grounding penalty provided the passer is outside of “the pocket” (lateral boundary of the free-blocking zone) and the pass reaches the neutral zone or the extension of the neutral zone beyond the sideline.
“The question (with this rule) has always been, ‘if the defense makes a good play, are we bailing out the offense by letting the quarterback throw the ball away?’” said Richard McWhirter, Chair of the NFHS Football Rules Committee and Assistant Executive Director of the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association. “This year, I think the committee felt the wellbeing of the passers and not subjecting them to extra hits was worth changing the rule.”