Bitter Pine Sitter
Member
Dont count on it......OHSAA has the finals locked down (or has in the past) online, streaming ppv only.
Toledo Area Basketball 22-23
- Thread starter NWOsportfan
- Start date
So you cannot be considered for top 5 ranking unless you have coached at a public school?
Trailsendcustom
Active member
Kachmarik was an assistant at Perrysburg before he went to Stritch.
BCSN can pick up the Spectrum feed for the state tournament if they want to pay for the rights. They picked up the Toledo Christian girls state final game last week and broadcast it live.
BCSN can pick up the Spectrum feed for the state tournament if they want to pay for the rights. They picked up the Toledo Christian girls state final game last week and broadcast it live.
ayCC!
NWO Realignment Enjoyer
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They also broadcast Central’s football state championship. Considering how many people would rely on the stream for Saturday night, I’m sure BCSN would gladly carry it.
eastisbest
Well-known member
You get to do what you want to do.
eastisbest
Well-known member
smh, you don't think I actually PAY for stuff do you? I'm referring to BCSN NOW, the free stuff I get with my internet. I don't have cable tv.
Zeb Jackson and VCU. Play St. Mary's today @ 2:00.
That doesn’t mean you can’t be a better coach than public school coaches
eastisbest
Well-known member
IDK who said otherwise but your own logic as stated indicates it also doesn't mean you can be. Not a whole lot being said there. That's why it's subjective.That doesn’t mean you can’t be a better coach than public school coaches
As I wrote, you get to do what you want to do. No one expects you to be "right." Mostly just looking for conversation, your list and your reasons if you care to give them. If you want us to tear it apart for being full of stupid, we can do that too.
Just let us know new member.1. Lindsey-Ottawa HillsIDK who said otherwise but your own logic as stated indicates it also doesn't mean you can be. Not a whole lot being said there. That's why it's subjective.
As I wrote, you get to do what you want to do. No one expects you to be "right." Mostly just looking for conversation, your list and your reasons if you care to give them. If you want us to tear it apart for being full of stupid, we can do that too.
2. Wortham-Start
3. Smith-Swanton
4. Schoen-SJJ(Didn’t want to do it but man. This run with honestly not a lot on the roster)
5. Bolin-Bedford
That actually was pretty difficult to be honest
I didn’t mean any disrespect and I apologize if you took offense. Now go laugh at my list
I stayed immediate Toledo area. If I didn’t I would have had OG’s coach. Lima’s coach and a few others.eastisbest
Well-known member
No offense taken. I like these topics because it's so easy to forget coaches and evaluate them off their final W-L numbers. Their value added is much harder. We tend to look at final win-loss until someone with a different exposure argues someone else. I had my list then went over to davey 1, looked at the shear amount a teams, realizing my list don't mean jack. I don't know those people. I don't have even a raw guess who has what system and kids to work with more than five steps out of Toledo metro.1. Lindsey-Ottawa Hills
2. Wortham-Start
3. Smith-Swanton
4. Schoen-SJJ(Didn’t want to do it but man. This run with honestly not a lot on the roster)
5. Bolin-Bedford
That actually was pretty difficult to be honest
I didn’t mean any disrespect and I apologize if you took offense. Now go laugh at my list
That’s what makes it a really good topic. Someone bringing up Wauseon’s coach broadened my view to them. It’s pretty cool.
eastisbest
Well-known member
After a season of whining about the basketball can we see three teams into the finals?
Maple_City_Fan
Well-known member
But, you Nordorians be watching from comforts of your couch
Tip: don't eat that chip stuck between the cushions. That be nasty
brian1227
Well-known member
At least competitive for a half.toledo never in it.
Maple_City_Fan
Well-known member
Das Macht nicht
brian1227
Well-known member
Akron Hoban is awesome.
green_genes
Well-known member
You’ll have to excuse us - the only times I’ve seen Hoban were against Central Catholic in football and Rossford in baseball and they lost both.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Don't give em any ideas, they got their own Zac Edey. Kid might take up hockey too.
smurfyeah19
Well-known member
They were due against a Toledo team. 9 points in the middle 16 minutes ain’t gonna get it done
sportsguy11
Member
This is a fun topic and it’s interesting to see how people determine what makes a coach great. Do people value a coach that can win a bunch of regular season games but doesn’t have a ton of tournament success(rucki)or a guy who may not have as many regular season wins but has great success in the tournaments(schoen). Both guys are good coaches IMO but it’s just interesting how other people value them.1. Lindsey-Ottawa Hills
2. Wortham-Start
3. Smith-Swanton
4. Schoen-SJJ(Didn’t want to do it but man. This run with honestly not a lot on the roster)
5. Bolin-Bedford
That actually was pretty difficult to be honest
I didn’t mean any disrespect and I apologize if you took offense. Now go laugh at my list
eastisbest
Well-known member
Has Shoen had great success in the tournaments? Most years I have the impression (maybe not reality) they have done less than predicted, given the talent. I see that as getting settled into the job perhaps. This year, the area teams were balanced enough that on any day and with the correct match-ups. I didn't see anything I would truly call "upset," though it makes a good story. I'm not sure what to make of Garfield Heights, they didnt seem particularly solid. As for Hoban, I don't over weigh a bad loss. They're an odd match-up. Play five games and I think they at least get closer every game.
Shoen, If he'd figured out enough to make a game against Hoban, it would have been him. I don't know they have less or more talent than Hoban but that match-up is not something easy to prepare for without experience. It would have taken a superior coaching job.Schoen's legacy is in the future.
You asked what each looks for. I look for value added. That takes a bit of time, going through the ups and downs. Teams being able to bring in talent as opposed to develop just whatever is given changes the game a bit. I can't expect them to NOT do it, yet how to compare their performance with a coach like out at Ottawa-Glandorf where MAYBE onesy-twosy comes in, though apparently none this team.
I think one thing we saw with Ed, it's not always easy to get that best talent to the top. I would bet most here would say he moved along the grunt teams, the traditional kids that came up through the system more than those that saw stars and came in to form a team. Schoen's team to me, reflected more those more balanced, hard nosed 90's teams. Even Coleman seemed to throw the balance off a bit, regardless I recall those teams as hard-nosed. But then, everything was better back in the day.
I know it is hard to grasp for those that live in a more metro area with the annual recruiting and moves that take place every year between kids and schools. At most of the schools in the WBL , NWC , and or MAC these kids are all homegrown - the only outlier maybe Liberty Benton/Van Buren with Marathon transfers into FIndlay - but it seems rare for them as well?.Has Shoen had great success in the tournaments? Most years I have the impression (maybe not reality) they have done less than predicted, given the talent. I see that as getting settled into the job perhaps. This year, the area teams were balanced enough that on any day and with the correct match-ups. I didn't see anything I would truly call "upset," though it makes a good story. I'm not sure what to make of Garfield Heights, they didnt seem particularly solid. As for Hoban, I don't over weigh a bad loss. They're an odd match-up. Play five games and I think they at least get closer every game.
Shoen, If he'd figured out enough to make a game against Hoban, it would have been him. I don't know they have less or more talent than Hoban but that match-up is not something easy to prepare for without experience. It would have taken a superior coaching job.Schoen's legacy is in the future.
You asked what each looks for. I look for value added. That takes a bit of time, going through the ups and downs. Teams being able to bring in talent as opposed to develop just whatever is given changes the game a bit. I can't expect them to NOT do it, yet how to compare their performance with a coach like out at Ottawa-Glandorf where MAYBE onesy-twosy comes in, though apparently none this team.
I think one thing we saw with Ed, it's not always easy to get that best talent to the top. I would bet most here would say he moved along the grunt teams, the traditional kids that came up through the system more than those that saw stars and came in to form a team. Schoen's team to me, reflected more those more balanced, hard nosed 90's teams. Even Coleman seemed to throw the balance off a bit, regardless I recall those teams as hard-nosed. But then, everything was better back in the day.
O-G for all its success had never had any transfers nor "move ins' on any of it's championship teams, and for the most part the closest move ins with the Pollitz twins when there father move in to Ottawa to start a Lutheran church when they were in 3rd grade - and still resides in Ottawa BTW !
irish_buffalo
Well-known member
Excellent post. The 95'-96' Titan team exemplified this.Has Shoen had great success in the tournaments? Most years I have the impression (maybe not reality) they have done less than predicted, given the talent. I see that as getting settled into the job perhaps. This year, the area teams were balanced enough that on any day and with the correct match-ups. I didn't see anything I would truly call "upset," though it makes a good story. I'm not sure what to make of Garfield Heights, they didnt seem particularly solid. As for Hoban, I don't over weigh a bad loss. They're an odd match-up. Play five games and I think they at least get closer every game.
Shoen, If he'd figured out enough to make a game against Hoban, it would have been him. I don't know they have less or more talent than Hoban but that match-up is not something easy to prepare for without experience. It would have taken a superior coaching job.Schoen's legacy is in the future.
You asked what each looks for. I look for value added. That takes a bit of time, going through the ups and downs. Teams being able to bring in talent as opposed to develop just whatever is given changes the game a bit. I can't expect them to NOT do it, yet how to compare their performance with a coach like out at Ottawa-Glandorf where MAYBE onesy-twosy comes in, though apparently none this team.
I think one thing we saw with Ed, it's not always easy to get that best talent to the top. I would bet most here would say he moved along the grunt teams, the traditional kids that came up through the system more than those that saw stars and came in to form a team. Schoen's team to me, reflected more those more balanced, hard nosed 90's teams. Even Coleman seemed to throw the balance off a bit, regardless I recall those teams as hard-nosed. But then, everything was better back in the day.
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
SJJ had by far the least talent of the four teams at the final four in D1 IMO...SJJ did a phenomenal job in the tournament getting to this stage. They outperformed their talent in the tournament.
I think the Schoen has done an excellent job in his short time as HC. In reading the Blade article the other day, his tournament record was 15-3 before yesterdays game and I kind of forgot about the 21 covid season when they won the district but due to AW having one covid case from 4 days earlier they were removed from the tournament. So in 4 years one final four, two district titles is pretty good especially considering I don't think they were ever predicted to be the clear cut top team in any of those seasons. I agree this years team found magic at the right time and finally ran out to a more talented Hoban team but regardless I think he does a great job putting his teams in position to be successful.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Well, they did lose by a LOT. They weren't competitive at all and I don't know that it's clear Hoban has significantly more raw talent, not from what the Hoban fans are saying. They had tough match-ups and a very solid team.
Setting that aside, isn't it early inthe recuitment to make that statement? SJJ has Hornbeak who SHOULD be getting D1 looks. Area schools will probaby lose another to VCU or Old Dominion or some such. SJJ has solid talent coming into the school. Those kids aren't far below and those that aren't "basketball" talents are solid athletes. We've had this discussion earlier, I won't rehash. Hoban fans said they have only one player getting D1 looks. We know Pick Central has more recognized talent. St Ed's IDK. What is their talent level?
I'm not sure setting the discussion at the final four stage is the best place to view the field anyhow. It would only be relevant if SJJ had been competitive.
Which teams do you think had significantly more talent coming into the door to fill the 10 spaces? Waite, Tiffin, Findaly, Whitmer, PBurg? GH is the only possible outlier I think.
I don't know what measures you have to say they have by far less talent in those local cases. GH I think is recognized to have more talent. IDK for fact. I thought they had less team. One game, I can put that on one coach being much better or the other coach only being so-so having got lucky in the talent draw.
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
They did not appear to match up physically/athletically very well with Hoban, especially Nichols (#0) and the big bodied kid that's an OL recruit. Pick Central and Centerville both had better "basketball talent" than Hoban by my eye test, and the recruiting rankings check out with it. Both would have also dusted St. John's. You mention Hornbeak SHOULD be getting looks. Both of those teams have top-100 type major conference recruits. The junior for Centerville is probably a better recruit/prospect than the PG that is going to Indiana.
I made no comment as to how their talent stacks up locally in Toledo. If they were as or more talented than everyone locally, then D1 in Toledo is in a down cycle where the top few teams do not stack up against the top few from each of the SW, Central and NE districts.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Yeah no kiddin on all counts. Match-up and you didn't mention local. Match-ups aren't talent. Discussion may change after tonight, I'm just going off what the Hoban fans were saying. Nothing special. Hence I asked your opinion on relative local talent.
The topic is best coaches and some want to play this was some big unexpected run and I don't see it. Teams were so close all year, which of them wouldn't have been called a surprise? None and all.You were making an argument for Shoen. Given SJJ wasn't even in the Hoban game, I thought I was feeding you what I thought a more fair opportunity. Did SJJ have less, let alone significantly less talent come in the door than did Waite, Tiffin, Findaly, Whitmer, PBurg? I don't really think so. IMO, there's not enough evidence ANY coach would not have had SJJ in about the same spot.
Now if we really want to talk SJJ coaches, let's go back before the closings and 20-20 program that led to SJJs rise and talk about who really implemented that dogged defense and disciplined balanced offense: Tim Smith.