Summer Basketball Struggles

Fan4life!

Member
How annoying is it that we promote multi-sport athletes but we often see certain sports tell kids that need to really focus on one sport, especially in the ‘smaller schools’?

I’m starting to notice the trend where coaches will say the ‘love multi-sport athletes’, but then speak differently when parents aren’t around.

What sport is this worst at this?
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Depends on what sport is king at your school. I don't think one is necessarily inherently worse than the other, it's just whoever has the most sway and political clout in the school/community.

At the end of the day I think most will prioritize themselves behind closed doors as opposed to promoting being a multi-sport athlete and making summer scheduling accessible for balancing basketball, football, baseball, etc.
 

OnTheLine85

Active member
A coach should not have say over what sports you play. It's not their decision. Talent should lead the way, not how many hours you spent in font of the coach.

If you're not good enough to make the team without the extra work, you don't make the team. If you're still good enough by balancing multiple sports, then you make the team. This isn't a problem if the main thing looked at is talent and skill, and not politics and face time.

You can't expect kids with multiple interests to cater to your every whim for 12 months of the year.
 

Chop Stix

Well-known member
Going into high school I was a firm football-basketball-track athlete.

I broke my thumb towards the end of my freshman football season and after my surgery the football coach told me if I lifted weights all winter and put on 15 lbs of muscle, I'd have a good shot at starting on varsity as a sophomore.

I reluctantly turned down joining the freshman basketball team midway through the season to work out all winter. I did end up putting on a bit of muscle and eventually started on varsity football as a sophomore - albeit it was towards the end of the season on a struggling 2-8 team.

More importantly I stopped my competitive basketball career at age 15 - something I wish that I continued longer now that I'm adult.
 

dig it

Well-known member
This is the main reason small high school sports have fallen off so much. Coaches think they have to be in complete control of the athletes that play for them at all times, even tho they claim publicly just the opposite. At larger schools, this may be successful. But small school coaches should be happy if any kid with athletic ability shows up for the first practice. If he shows up for all the extra off season work(or even part of it), fantastic. If not, welcome him with open arms anyhow. Word will spread that you are not a dictator and that you truly care about them as people with lives and not just a serf waiting for your next demand. Players will be more willing to run thru that "wall", which will make for better practices, which will lead to more wins, which will make everybody happy....and maybe,just maybe more people will start showing up to those optional(not mandatory) off season sessions.

In high school I would take the raw athlete every time over the kid who shows up for everything, yet can't even get into a defensive stance without tripping over his own feet. Too many coaches still believe its all about their x's and o's. If you don't have athletes, you won't win. Its simple. Too bad the ego-maniacs will never get it.
 

Kurt Rambis

Well-known member
comes down to this: if you(or your parents) think you're going to be a star, they usually make poor decisions by specializing.

If someone is interested in having a great HS career in 2-3 sports and enjoying their life, they can do that, August to October; November to Febreuary; and March to May
 

Fan4life!

Member
Do some sport programs get ‘away’ with more than others? I’d like to hear everyone’s opinions…

I believe, since Ohio is supposedly considered a ‘football state’, how do they get away with ruling most schools? I tend to think other schools have this issue as well? Some football programs can do whatever they want with no consequences, but if other programs in that same building try to do the same, they get reprimanded/slapped on the wrist. Anyone else see this?
 

The Dock

Well-known member
I believe, since Ohio is supposedly considered a ‘football state’, how do they get away with ruling most schools? I tend to think other schools have this issue as well? Some football programs can do whatever they want with no consequences, but if other programs in that same building try to do the same, they get reprimanded/slapped on the wrist. Anyone else see this?
Because the majority of schools in this state are delusional about football. Sport that carries an abundance of cultural significance in the state + the fact more kids in the community (30-35) see action in a varsity contest = fantastical thinking. Hope springs eternal. A large exurban or metro school will gladly provide teaching positions to 5-6 assistant football coaches (some mid-size ones will accommodate 2-3.) Doesn't matter if they're a great teacher, or not. Preserving the hegemony of football in a school, regardless of if they're tradition-rich or pure d.s. on the annum is important to districts. Low culture, no stressing the importance of having a good program? Lose kids; the public doesn't come out and support what is thought to be a community event on Fridays. Many places can't break the cycle for one reason or another.

The reason as to why schools tolerate what you're describing with football programs? Because meatheads in the community and yokels will b---- a storm up on social media and at the watering holes if some study hall monitor-assistant coach for football team gets disciplined/fired for telling kids "I better see your [butt] in the [expletive] weight room." Complaining that the schools are soft. "LiKE SoCiEtyyyyy."

Easier and more politically-expedient to force everyone to yield to the football program.
 

14Red

Well-known member
There are so many ways to address this issue. First of all you are dealing with parents and kids from those who want little to do with any "extra" in the summer months, they just want to be a kid and do whatever they want, to the ones who think they are going to get a full ride at Ohio State. In a perfect world, the schools leadership and coaches would lay out a reasonable summer schedule where kids can do 2-3 sports activies in the summer, not all sports every day, have a job if needed and still have a life. To me, I think football should be off limits until July 1. You can lift 2-3 times weekly and that's it. High school football plays 10 games a season, yet the amount of time some kids put into football and lifting year around vs. the number of games / playing time makes little sense.
To the person who gave up basketball to lift for football, it's unfortunate. I talk to alot of young men over the years and one theme I've heard consistently is they wish they would have done more in high school. You get to do high school sports once in a lifetime, do all you can.
 

LELL

Well-known member
Back in my day, summer time was for baseball. Also went to basketball camp at Wittenberg and went to baseball games in the afternoon and came back to camp afterwards. Also lifted for football in the mornings or afternoons depending on my summer work schedule.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
In a perfect world, the schools leadership and coaches would lay out a reasonable summer schedule where kids can do 2-3 sports activies in the summer, not all sports every day, have a job if needed and still have a life. To me, I think football should be off limits until July 1. You can lift 2-3 times weekly and that's it. High school football plays 10 games a season, yet the amount of time some kids put into football and lifting year around vs. the number of games / playing time makes little sense.
I wanted to highlight this specific part of your post, particularly the bolded. This is what the problem is becoming at places, and the main cause of the problem is bad school leadership allowing the problem and failing to correct it.

Basketball should be finished for the summer at the end of June, and football should not be doing anything besides lifting/conditioning a few days a week prior to July 1st. I have seen a few places instituting a dead/no contact period for 1-2 weeks on the backend of June through the 4th of July, and I fully support that. Most summer leagues and shootouts are wrapped up by the end of this week traditionally, and I think it's reasonable to give in advance that 7-10 day gap through the 4th for folks to go on vacation without missing a chunk of summer activities or just for the kids to be kids. Start your summer football mini camps on the 5th and have a few weeks of buildup with 7 on 7s going into the start of practice.
 

SWOHHoops

Active member
I think if school's really wanted to make things easier for the kids they would make coaches sit down together and plan their summer. There will be inevitable conflicts, like a basketball shootout on the same day as a football camp, but the workouts/practices/lifting/conditioning can all be planned in a way that allows the kids to participate in everything they want to. Football having conditioning at the same time as a basketball summer league game and then making the kids feel like they have to be there should never happen, and vice-versa.
 

OnTheLine85

Active member
I think if school's really wanted to make things easier for the kids they would make coaches sit down together and plan their summer. There will be inevitable conflicts, like a basketball shootout on the same day as a football camp, but the workouts/practices/lifting/conditioning can all be planned in a way that allows the kids to participate in everything they want to. Football having conditioning at the same time as a basketball summer league game and then making the kids feel like they have to be there should never happen, and vice-versa.
I think this is where leadership comes in. The best ADs are likely having this expectation and looking for their coaches to collaborate.
 

Ericles

Active member
I wanted to highlight this specific part of your post, particularly the bolded. This is what the problem is becoming at places, and the main cause of the problem is bad school leadership allowing the problem and failing to correct it.

Basketball should be finished for the summer at the end of June, and football should not be doing anything besides lifting/conditioning a few days a week prior to July 1st. I have seen a few places instituting a dead/no contact period for 1-2 weeks on the backend of June through the 4th of July, and I fully support that..Most summer leagues and shootouts are wrapped up by the end of this week traditionally, and I think it's reasonable to give in advance that 7-10 day gap through the 4th for folks to go on vacation without missing a chunk of summer activities or just for the kids to be kids. Start your summer football mini camps on the 5th and have a few weeks of buildup with 7 on 7s going into the start of practice.
My school district does this and has for a while now. This year, our no contact runs from Sat 7/2 and ends Sun 7/10. Activities can resume Mon 7/11. They use this time to refinish the gym floor among a few other things.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I think if school's really wanted to make things easier for the kids they would make coaches sit down together and plan their summer. There will be inevitable conflicts, like a basketball shootout on the same day as a football camp, but the workouts/practices/lifting/conditioning can all be planned in a way that allows the kids to participate in everything they want to. Football having conditioning at the same time as a basketball summer league game and then making the kids feel like they have to be there should never happen, and vice-versa.
Games take precedence over workouts. And who's doing conditioning now anyway? Isn't there "acclimation" periods and plenty of time for conditioning? I'd say playing 3-4 basketball games a day in a hot gym is pretty good conditioning.

And yes, there should be some communication from coaches on scheduling. Also you have to look at the worst case senario, the kid that does football/ basketball / baseball, what does that look like and is there unrealistic expectations?

I'm ok with the "no contact - dead periods" except you've already got less than two months and you're taking a week out. I realize vacations are more important to some families than others. My opinion is you do HS sports once, over likely a 2-3 year period. There's plenty of time go on vacations after that. But I'd also say if a family schedules a vacation then go. I'm not stopping you.
 

Fan4life!

Member
Have you heard where other coaches tell kids they can’t attend other sports workouts/scrimmages because they had stuff going on to make the kids feel ‘guilty’? For example, there’s a summer scrimmage for basketball that a kid can’t go because the football/baseball coach told him no for whatever reason?

Do you think this kind of behavior happens often?
 

Kurt Rambis

Well-known member
Have you heard where other coaches tell kids they can’t attend other sports workouts/scrimmages because they had stuff going on to make the kids feel ‘guilty’? For example, there’s a summer scrimmage for basketball that a kid can’t go because the football/baseball coach told him no for whatever reason?

Do you think this kind of behavior happens often?
I've been in schools where coaches flat out say: "You can't play a sport the season before mine", and then deny it, even though it was in an email.

I have baseball players who can't do anything at all on days they pitch

I have had football players unable to come to to something because "i squatted this morning"
 

SWOHHoops

Active member
Have you heard where other coaches tell kids they can’t attend other sports workouts/scrimmages because they had stuff going on to make the kids feel ‘guilty’? For example, there’s a summer scrimmage for basketball that a kid can’t go because the football/baseball coach told him no for whatever reason?

Do you think this kind of behavior happens often?
I've never seen a coach come out and say "you can't go to...." but many make sure the kids feel pressure to focus on their sport
 

bobcat44

Well-known member
I've never seen a coach come out and say "you can't go to...." but many make sure the kids feel pressure to focus on their sport
Have seen this before and if kids ignore the demand they are punished with sprints or some kind of extra conditioning workout
 

serpico

Well-known member
Our school enforces a 2-week shutdown in late June and early July, and we’ve had plenty of success in both football and basketball. I believe parents would be really ticked off if the school ended the mandatory shutdown, because it allows families to spend quality time together.
 

OnTheLine85

Active member
Our school enforces a 2-week shutdown in late June and early July, and we’ve had plenty of success in both football and basketball. I believe parents would be really ticked off if the school ended the mandatory shutdown, because it allows families to spend quality time together.
Not only that, it allows kids to recover - both physically and mentally.

Playing multiple sports and juggling school at the high school level isn't easy, especially the transition from football to basketball season, which alot of kids do.

There's no reason a coach should be deciding what a kid/family should be focusing on. It's not their call. If they punish the kid simply because of ego and they're not following the coach demands, that should be dealt with by the AD. It's not a coach's call what a kid decides to pursue.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Going into high school I was a firm football-basketball-track athlete.

I broke my thumb towards the end of my freshman football season and after my surgery the football coach told me if I lifted weights all winter and put on 15 lbs of muscle, I'd have a good shot at starting on varsity as a sophomore.

I reluctantly turned down joining the freshman basketball team midway through the season to work out all winter. I did end up putting on a bit of muscle and eventually started on varsity football as a sophomore - albeit it was towards the end of the season on a struggling 2-8 team.

More importantly I stopped my competitive basketball career at age 15 - something I wish that I continued longer now that I'm adult.
I almost gave up my football career at the beginning of my junior season in favor of "focusing" on baseball. Dad, not the coaches, sat me down and said son you're not good enough to play anything but D3 ball so you better just enjoy high school and play as many sports as you can. Went back to football the next day. Never looked back. Even joined the swim team my senior year. Glad the old man was honest with me as so many parents aren't.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Just finished my 18th year of teaching. During that time I've coached wrestling for 17 seasons, swimming now going on 13 seasons. Even helped with track for a couple springs and coached JV baseball one season my first year teaching.

In that time I've met / worked with 1 coach who backed up his talk with regards to kids playing multiple sports, 3 coaches who were adamantly opposed to "their" athletes doing something else and the VAST majority of coaches simply give lip service on the issue. That is to say when asked about their thoughts on the matter they are in favor of the concept. Do they do anything to encourage it? absolutely not. Do they get in the way and stop kids? absolutely not. They just say what people in interscholastic athletics want to hear.

I work with a veteran girls basketball coach who is one of our special edu. teachers. He "requires" his girls to play volleyball or at least run XC in the fall and then in the spring those same basketball girls do track. He attends their meets, even volunteers to help at meets. Backs up what he believes. We're the 5th school he's been at in his 30 plus year career and has been successful at each stop including ours.

We had a HFC years ago who would only let "his" football players do a second or third sport if he was the coach of it. So not only was he the HFC but was also the weightlifting coach in the winter and head boys track coach in the spring. He could tout that his football players were multi sport athletes but only because they did sports where he dictated the narrative. This HFC won 15 games in 5 seasons.

Not sure I've ever concluded that one sport is worse than the rest when it comes to this. IME I've noticed that it is difficult to get soccer players at my school to do anything else but soccer. This is mainly because soccer in South Carolina is played in the spring and a lot of club soccer is therefore done in the fall. Both our boys and girls soccer coaches don't force their kids to play fall soccer BUT I've never really heard them encourage players to do something else besides fall soccer.

Why does this happen?
Sometimes coaches who are teachers feel that the performance of their team on the field, court, etc... will boost the likelihood that they will continue to be able to work full time at the school they coach at. With regards to sports like football, basketball and in some schools maybe baseball this can be true. Your coaching performance is / can be tied in certain cases to whether or not you get retained as a teacher.

I've met some real egomaniacs in the coaching profession across all sports. Men and Women who were very successful coaches but honestly had zero business working with young people. Their coaching success was deeply tied to their mental well being and vision of themselves as who they are / were. In their minds to maintain their team's success they had to dictate everything about their athletes.

In the minds of some coaches they run the risk of that kid focusing on the other sport. They want their sport to be priority #1 and the second sport to be just sort of a hobby for the kid.
 

OnTheLine85

Active member
Just finished my 18th year of teaching. During that time I've coached wrestling for 17 seasons, swimming now going on 13 seasons. Even helped with track for a couple springs and coached JV baseball one season my first year teaching.

In that time I've met / worked with 1 coach who backed up his talk with regards to kids playing multiple sports, 3 coaches who were adamantly opposed to "their" athletes doing something else and the VAST majority of coaches simply give lip service on the issue. That is to say when asked about their thoughts on the matter they are in favor of the concept. Do they do anything to encourage it? absolutely not. Do they get in the way and stop kids? absolutely not. They just say what people in interscholastic athletics want to hear.

I work with a veteran girls basketball coach who is one of our special edu. teachers. He "requires" his girls to play volleyball or at least run XC in the fall and then in the spring those same basketball girls do track. He attends their meets, even volunteers to help at meets. Backs up what he believes. We're the 5th school he's been at in his 30 plus year career and has been successful at each stop including ours.

We had a HFC years ago who would only let "his" football players do a second or third sport if he was the coach of it. So not only was he the HFC but was also the weightlifting coach in the winter and head boys track coach in the spring. He could tout that his football players were multi sport athletes but only because they did sports where he dictated the narrative. This HFC won 15 games in 5 seasons.

Not sure I've ever concluded that one sport is worse than the rest when it comes to this. IME I've noticed that it is difficult to get soccer players at my school to do anything else but soccer. This is mainly because soccer in South Carolina is played in the spring and a lot of club soccer is therefore done in the fall. Both our boys and girls soccer coaches don't force their kids to play fall soccer BUT I've never really heard them encourage players to do something else besides fall soccer.

Why does this happen?
Sometimes coaches who are teachers feel that the performance of their team on the field, court, etc... will boost the likelihood that they will continue to be able to work full time at the school they coach at. With regards to sports like football, basketball and in some schools maybe baseball this can be true. Your coaching performance is / can be tied in certain cases to whether or not you get retained as a teacher.

I've met some real egomaniacs in the coaching profession across all sports. Men and Women who were very successful coaches but honestly had zero business working with young people. Their coaching success was deeply tied to their mental well being and vision of themselves as who they are / were. In their minds to maintain their team's success they had to dictate everything about their athletes.

In the minds of some coaches they run the risk of that kid focusing on the other sport. They want their sport to be priority #1 and the second sport to be just sort of a hobby for the kid.
In my experience, the coaches that dictate and direct kids to do something "or else" are always the coaches in it for themselves and not for the betterment of the kids. They work for their ego and their advancement first and foremost. Not quite the attitude needed when developing young people.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
In my experience, the coaches that dictate and direct kids to do something "or else" are always the coaches in it for themselves and not for the betterment of the kids. They work for their ego and their advancement first and foremost. Not quite the attitude needed when developing young people.
Agreed.
 
A shut down for 7 - 10 days during July 4 is a great new idea that is starting to grow to more schools. Two weeks does sounds long when each sport has 10 days to get in, youth camps, etc. But 14 days is better than 0 days.
 

Kballer

Well-known member
Just finished my 18th year of teaching. During that time I've coached wrestling for 17 seasons, swimming now going on 13 seasons. Even helped with track for a couple springs and coached JV baseball one season my first year teaching.

In that time I've met / worked with 1 coach who backed up his talk with regards to kids playing multiple sports, 3 coaches who were adamantly opposed to "their" athletes doing something else and the VAST majority of coaches simply give lip service on the issue. That is to say when asked about their thoughts on the matter they are in favor of the concept. Do they do anything to encourage it? absolutely not. Do they get in the way and stop kids? absolutely not. They just say what people in interscholastic athletics want to hear.

I work with a veteran girls basketball coach who is one of our special edu. teachers. He "requires" his girls to play volleyball or at least run XC in the fall and then in the spring those same basketball girls do track. He attends their meets, even volunteers to help at meets. Backs up what he believes. We're the 5th school he's been at in his 30 plus year career and has been successful at each stop including ours.

We had a HFC years ago who would only let "his" football players do a second or third sport if he was the coach of it. So not only was he the HFC but was also the weightlifting coach in the winter and head boys track coach in the spring. He could tout that his football players were multi sport athletes but only because they did sports where he dictated the narrative. This HFC won 15 games in 5 seasons.

Not sure I've ever concluded that one sport is worse than the rest when it comes to this. IME I've noticed that it is difficult to get soccer players at my school to do anything else but soccer. This is mainly because soccer in South Carolina is played in the spring and a lot of club soccer is therefore done in the fall. Both our boys and girls soccer coaches don't force their kids to play fall soccer BUT I've never really heard them encourage players to do something else besides fall soccer.

Why does this happen?
Sometimes coaches who are teachers feel that the performance of their team on the field, court, etc... will boost the likelihood that they will continue to be able to work full time at the school they coach at. With regards to sports like football, basketball and in some schools maybe baseball this can be true. Your coaching performance is / can be tied in certain cases to whether or not you get retained as a teacher.

I've met some real egomaniacs in the coaching profession across all sports. Men and Women who were very successful coaches but honestly had zero business working with young people. Their coaching success was deeply tied to their mental well being and vision of themselves as who they are / were. In their minds to maintain their team's success they had to dictate everything about their athletes.

In the minds of some coaches they run the risk of that kid focusing on the other sport. They want their sport to be priority #1 and the second sport to be just sort of a hobby for the kid.
We had 3 kids in high school for one year and they played 7 sports- we only had one coach that really had a problem with this, my daughters basketball coach. They wanted total control over the players time in the fall and intimated them into playing basketball exclusively. My daughter (who was their starting post player as a freshman) told them she wanted to run XC and the coach said you will lose your starting spot if you do. Daughter who isnt easily intimidated, said that’s fine- i like XC better anyways . Problem was for the coach, my daughter became one of the top players in the region BECAUSE of XC- she could run all game and chase the little guards while still being able to post up a rare combo. Coach had no choices but to play her- daughter started all 4 years and earned all star honors for both sports.
 

1 time

Well-known member
We had 3 kids in high school for one year and they played 7 sports- we only had one coach that really had a problem with this, my daughters basketball coach. They wanted total control over the players time in the fall and intimated them into playing basketball exclusively. My daughter (who was their starting post player as a freshman) told them she wanted to run XC and the coach said you will lose your starting spot if you do. Daughter who isnt easily intimidated, said that’s fine- i like XC better anyways . Problem was for the coach, my daughter became one of the top players in the region BECAUSE of XC- she could run all game and chase the little guards while still being able to post up a rare combo. Coach had no choices but to play her- daughter started all 4 years and earned all star honors for both sports.
Lot of want to be coaches, who think they’re going to win the next state championship. Usually not happening. Lot of good coaches, but it’s sooo out of control with these 11-12 months programs. You wonder why the numbers are so down at many schools. Too bad the AD’s and administrators don’t take control, but they get paid the same every 2 weeks and some don’t really give a Sh@it
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Lot of want to be coaches, who think they’re going to win the next state championship. Usually not happening. Lot of good coaches, but it’s sooo out of control with these 11-12 months programs. You wonder why the numbers are so down at many schools. Too bad the AD’s and administrators don’t take control, but they get paid the same every 2 weeks and some don’t really give a Sh@it
Some AD's simply do not want to rock their own boat as it were.
 
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