OHSAA, drop D3

Roundup

New member
Now is the right time to drop Division 3.

Most D3 schools can’t fill 7or 8 weight classes.

Many Sectional Brackets only have 4 to 6 wrestlers.

Most of the farm schools can’t find enough kids. Population at some of these small schools is less than 50 per grade. Some 30.

D3 is not deep on talent. The top 3 or 4 at State are very good, but the drop-off in talent is very steep. The top 3-4 D3 kids could complete with anyone but the Division as a whole is not competitive.

Divide the schools into 2 boys Divisions.
The top half into D1
The bottom half into D2.



I would love to see the SAME format at State.

3 mats for the Finals.

Boys D1
Boys D2
Girls.

The Girls deserve to be at the Big Show in the Schott.
 

sav123

Member
Now is the right time to drop Division 3.

Most D3 schools can’t fill 7or 8 weight classes.

Many Sectional Brackets only have 4 to 6 wrestlers.

Most of the farm schools can’t find enough kids. Population at some of these small schools is less than 50 per grade. Some 30.

D3 is not deep on talent. The top 3 or 4 at State are very good, but the drop-off in talent is very steep. The top 3-4 D3 kids could complete with anyone but the Division as a whole is not competitive.

Divide the schools into 2 boys Divisions.
The top half into D1
The bottom half into D2.



I would love to see the SAME format at State.

3 mats for the Finals.

Boys D1
Boys D2
Girls.

The Girls deserve to be at the Big Show in the Schott.
We’ll see a blue moon before this happens unfortunately
 

Roundup

New member
You never know.
if these Sectional Bracket numbers keep declining in D3….

in many weight classes “everyone is a qualifier”.

participation trophy!
 

Old142

Moderated User
You never know.
if these Sectional Bracket numbers keep declining in D3….

in many weight classes “everyone is a qualifier”.

participation trophy!
Participation trophies? Kind of what the girls will be getting based on their numbers. Combine D2 -D3. If the girls are so well deserved they don't need to piggy back off the boys competition, which they'll never come close to in numbers. Have their own weekend before the boys, not so difficult to understand.
 

DoubleBoots

Well-known member
Now is the right time to drop Division 3.

Most D3 schools can’t fill 7or 8 weight classes.

Many Sectional Brackets only have 4 to 6 wrestlers.

Most of the farm schools can’t find enough kids. Population at some of these small schools is less than 50 per grade. Some 30.

D3 is not deep on talent. The top 3 or 4 at State are very good, but the drop-off in talent is very steep. The top 3-4 D3 kids could complete with anyone but the Division as a whole is not competitive.

Divide the schools into 2 boys Divisions.
The top half into D1
The bottom half into D2.



I would love to see the SAME format at State.

3 mats for the Finals.

Boys D1
Boys D2
Girls.

The Girls deserve to be at the Big Show in the Schott.
This is the right answer.
 

Cjlewis01

Well-known member
I only checked the northeast entry grids. But but it was pretty close to even between number of wrestlers entered at d2 and d3.
 

DoubleBoots

Well-known member
No it’s not. Boys state and a girls state. Let them both have there there moment. It should be special for each group. Don’t do the same weekend tho!
I don’t have a big preference regarding the girls event. Whatever the experts trying to grow the girls sport think is better is good by me.
But I do think it is time to combine D2 & D3. It just is not deep enough to support it. It takes away from the prestige. It is so weak and thin.
 

Bitewhat?

Member
I don’t have a big preference regarding the girls event. Whatever the experts trying to grow the girls sport think is better is good by me.
But I do think it is time to combine D2 & D3. It just is not deep enough to support it. It takes away from the prestige. It is so weak and thin.
So give kids less opportunities to grow the sport? Hell up north and many other states have 4. Why do you think ohio is a hotbed for wrestling? It's the more numbers you have the better product you can pick from . Simple math .
 

DarnDude

Member
I don’t have a big preference regarding the girls event. Whatever the experts trying to grow the girls sport think is better is good by me.
But I do think it is time to combine D2 & D3. It just is not deep enough to support it. It takes away from the prestige. It is so weak and thin.
Top 8 in each division in a 24 man tournament wouldn't be sweeps for D1, so probably pretty good as is. IMO
 

t2p6win

Member
with the new enrollment numbers coming out their is gonna be some moving of schools which could change the divisions and give d3 some more schools with better numbers
 

Jmf022088

Active member
So you think we should add as you say a small farm school to a division with big schools that have two or three back ups in each weight class??? So them scrambling to get 5 kids on a team should face Dublin Coffman or desales ??? That’s crazy no the division’s are there for a good reason so that kids from a “small farm school” can still be competitive to schools that are in the same predicament with only part of a team!!! Other wise these kids Han just go in and get destroyed!! It like saying girls have to face boys to become a state champ how would that be fair?? Some girls and division 3 kids can easily hang with d1 wrestlers but that gives no small school a chance to have stand out athletes at all!!! I don’t agree but I do see something like this happening in the future though
 

DoubleBoots

Well-known member
So give kids less opportunities to grow the sport? Hell up north and many other states have 4. Why do you think ohio is a hotbed for wrestling? It's the more numbers you have the better product you can pick from . Simple math .
Ohio is not the hotbed it used to be. Still very good, but to not notice other States' getting much better is putting your head in the sand. I am sure many will get all offended by that, but those following the national scene know it is true.
By the way, PA has only two divisions--I'd say they are still a hotbed. ? Cali has only ONE division--I'd say they are a hotbed. ?
Let's keep a lower competition level so kids will participate more? First, is it working for growth the last how ever many years? Second, not the way to prepare them for the real world imho.
 

Old142

Moderated User
Ohio is not the hotbed it used to be. Still very good, but to not notice other States' getting much better is putting your head in the sand. I am sure many will get all offended by that, but those following the national scene know it is true.
By the way, PA has only two divisions--I'd say they are still a hotbed. ? Cali has only ONE division--I'd say they are a hotbed. ?
Let's keep a lower competition level so kids will participate more? First, is it working for growth the last how ever many years? Second, not the way to prepare them for the real world imho.
Ohio is still near the top. Ohio is still ahead of Michigan and California in NCAA qualifiers with a smaller population than Cali. and bigger population than Michigan, and Michigan has 4 Divisions last I checked. California 1 Division BUT 40 qualifiers in most brackets. If anything combine D2-D3 there is no reason to punish the smaller rural schools who have a team, but can't field 14 wresters, that's NOT good for the sport.
 

Old142

Moderated User
Oh boy Old142 learned how to make burner accounts on here now.
I can't remember are you a "girls coach" ? Support girls wrestling prepubescent boys as long as they can beat a few of the below average ones at the lightest weight class ? Or associated with the kid who was "hurt" so bad he had to default? Refresh my memory Dan Gable.
 

Bitewhat?

Member
Ohio is not the hotbed it used to be. Still very good, but to not notice other States' getting much better is putting your head in the sand. I am sure many will get all offended by that, but those following the national scene know it is true.
By the way, PA has only two divisions--I'd say they are still a hotbed. ? Cali has only ONE division--I'd say they are a hotbed. ?
Let's keep a lower competition level so kids will participate more? First, is it working for growth the last how ever many years? Second, not the way to prepare them for the real world imho.
So you just want 1 div in all sports? Very little growth happens then. Why are there multiple divisions in college?????? Same reason Or would like to see Ohio State play Mount union or wooster?? Neither get anything out of it
 
This may be the most ridiculous post I have seen so far. D3 numbers are good if you look at entry grids overall. Yes there are some weaker sectionals, but there are some strong sectionals too. I had a kid who was 38-6 who did not make it out of his tough weight class. Some division 2 sectionals around me are weaker. The solution is to seed sectionals in each district, so it even's out the tough sectionals compared to the weaker ones year to year. That would solve the problem.
 
Last edited:

Bitewhat?

Member
This may be the most ridiculous post I have seen so far. D3 numbers are good if you look at entry grids overall. Yes there are some weaker sectionals, but there are some strong sectionals too. I had a kid who was 38-6 who did not make it out of his tough weight class. Some division 2 sectionals around me and less people in it. The solution is to seed sectionals in each district, so it even's out the tough sectionals compared to the weaker ones year to year. That would solve the problem.
I am 100% for d3 .another note U picked your sectional. And if your 38-6 and can't get out of a sectionals what caliber of competition did they wrestle through out the season to prepare???? Seems off
 
I am 100% for d3 .another note U picked your sectional. And if your 38-6 and can't get out of a sectionals what caliber of competition did they wrestle through out the season to prepare???? Seems off
Caliber is pretty good since I had 2 state qualifiers. It was a tough weight class, 5 guys in it with less then 10 losses. It is the Plymouth Sectional which the 157 lbs weight class was tough. State Placer and 2 district placers came out of that weight class.
 

c-hi

New member
I mentioned this in another thread but it fits here as well. After looking at the ENTRY GRIDS (not the brackets), I counted 74 "partial" schools for D3. D2 had 19 and D1 had 14 "partial" schools. So, D3 schools had the same # of TEAMS but more than double the partial teams of D1 and D2 combined. So, I'm not sure D3 is as watered down as some are implying. It seems to me that they have as many participants if not more than D1 and D2. Disclaimer: I did this quickly so my count may be a little off.
 

WGTJ

Well-known member
I mentioned this in another thread but it fits here as well. After looking at the ENTRY GRIDS (not the brackets), I counted 74 "partial" schools for D3. D2 had 19 and D1 had 14 "partial" schools. So, D3 schools had the same # of TEAMS but more than double the partial teams of D1 and D2 combined. So, I'm not sure D3 is as watered down as some are implying. It seems to me that they have as many participants if not more than D1 and D2. Disclaimer: I did this quickly so my count may be a little off.

While I think the premise of this thread is.... let's say, something I'm not interested in (to put it nicely), the idea that D3 has more participants than D1 or D2 seems like a hasty conclusion. You are making a pretty big assumption that the D3 "teams" are as complete as the D1 and D2. I'd venture to guess that D1 teams are way more likely to field a full lineup and have a good amount of backups. My son's team had 50 kids on it this year.
 

Bitewhat?

Member
Caliber is pretty good since I had 2 state qualifiers. It was a tough weight class, 5 guys in it with less then 10 losses. It is the Plymouth Sectional which the 157 lbs weight class was tough. State Placer and 2 district placers came out of that weight class.
Only 1 kid at 157 at that sectional made it out of the following district 2nd . Records mean nothing and get a tough schedule. And your coaches pick your sectionals
 

DoubleBoots

Well-known member
So you just want 1 div in all sports? Very little growth happens then. Why are there multiple divisions in college?????? Same reason Or would like to see Ohio State play Mount union or wooster?? Neither get anything out of it
You didn’t read my original post or you are unable to comprehend it. I did not say one division—I said combine D2 and D3. If you follow the math that makes for 2 divisions.
I agree with you that the resources and numbers disparity calls for divisions. I am just saying I would just go to a big school/small school division like PA. maybe some of the bigger D2’s can be D1. Many of the D2’s are not much different than D3 in terms of resources and could combine with them.
Two divisions—what the talent level supports imho. Same as PA. Some of what I watched in D2 and D3 in Columbus last month was making me hide my eyes.
And I keep hearing this argument about divisions and growth. If there are facts that support some significant growth since OH went to 3 divisions or in the last 25 years, please share it with me. I could be convinced to change my mind. If not, the 3 divisions just waters down the level of wrestling in my mind too far.
 

t2p6win

Member
what also has changed is teams chosing the sectional to go to.so once one is full the remainder go the other way.
 

t2p6win

Member
d3 barnesville 2014 entry grid,13 teams 127 part...2017 13,104...2020 11,89...2022 13,109.......sandy valley d3 2014 14,139.2017 12,98.2020 12,112 2022 12,85.....in 2012 barnesville had all the east schools 20 182 participants.....10 years hasnt changed for this area.im sure other areas are about the same.....only difference is the people,the people that feel because they are in a bigger division or a bigger sectional then they arent getting a fair chance.
 
.
Top