A Look At The 2021 OHSAA State Football Championship Attendance Numbers

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thavoice

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Been down this path with him in the past. It's futile. Paragraph after paragraph of non-essential ramblings.

Yet, he never answers how his own school's swimming team has somehow managed to win 22 of the last 23 state swimming championships and 35 of the 42 while competing at Branin Natatorium which is located in......

Yep...... Canton ;)

Apparently, the drive at the end of February is shorter than in early December.
They'd be 40-42 if the champs was in a more centrally located area.....
 

4GX

Well-known member
Obviously that distance helped Hoban win so much easier!
Sometimes, one team is just that much better than the other team-- and manages to overcome the decided advantage that playing at home or close to home (such as X beating Ms. Washington in Canton in 2005, or this year, with Winton Woods beating Hoban in Canton), that the ridiculous placement of these games in NE Ohio offers the teams from NE Ohio. It cost X and Winton Woods a LOT more time and money to attend and play in those games than it did Ms. Washington and Hoban-- not to mention the much greater disruption to the SW Ohio teams' schedule and preparation-- nothing fair about it--it speaks to just how much better X and Winton Woods had to be, to overcome the built-in advantages that Ms. Washington and Hoban had in those games.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Been down this path with him in the past. It's futile. Paragraph after paragraph of non-essential ramblings.

Yet, he never answers how his own school's swimming team has somehow managed to win 22 of the last 23 state swimming championships and 35 of the 42 while competing at Branin Natatorium which is located in......

Yep...... Canton ;)

Apparently, the drive at the end of February is shorter than in early December.
Again, X's swim team is just that much better than all the other teams-- it's possible to overcome a decided travel and crowd disadvantage with a vastly superior team. The swimming championships should be in Columbus too.
 

4GX

Well-known member
True. Want to make sure both teams travel pretty much the same distance and yeah, many games will be played at lesser facilities than they currently play during the playoffs.
Not true-- and a "lesser facility" (in your judgement) that can accommodate most all of the fans would be fine with the teams from the southern half of the state. No one from SW Ohio sits around fondly ruminating about what a "nice facility" Tom Benson Stadium is. X was FINE with playing in Fortress Obetz last year, because it meant 2-3 hours less driving time each way, the players were able to sleep in their own beds the night before the game, and the school saved a LOT of money on travel accommodations.

There are multiple stadiums big enough to hold ALL of the fans that want to attend the state finals, in Columbus (2-4 of them, not including Ohio Stadium)-- ALL with high quality playing surfaces, and regulation sized fields. THAT should be enough for the OHSAA. Make the process of getting to and playing in the game more equal for all participating teams.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Not true-- and a "lesser facility" (in your judgement) that can accommodate most all of the fans would be fine with the teams from the southern half of the state. No one from SW Ohio sits around fondly ruminating about what a "nice facility" Tom Benson Stadium is. X was FINE with playing in Fortress Obetz last year, because it meant 2-3 hours less driving time each way, the players were able to sleep in their own beds the night before the game, and the school saved a LOT of money on travel accommodations.

There are multiple stadiums big enough to hold ALL of the fans that want to attend the state finals, in Columbus (2-4 of them, not including Ohio Stadium)-- ALL with high quality playing surfaces, and regulation sized fields. THAT should be enough for the OHSAA. Make the process of getting to and playing in the game more equal for all participating teams.
You want equally fair and neutral meaning the same distance between the two competing schools.

Goodluck with tyat.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Can you please cite any sports league that uses a different definition of the term neutral?
You said "the entire sporting world's definition"-- that is simply not true.

It's really simple: if one team gets to stay at home, follow their normal routine, and spend FAR less time and money and effort getting to the game versus the other team's time, money, and effort spent getting to the game (which also entails a significant disruption to their normal preparation routine) then, by definition, it is not an equal challenge for both teams to prepare for, attend, and play in the game-- and, in my opinion (and the opinion of literally millions of other sports fans-- an opinion that is then supported and substantiated by the expressed desire of EVERY team to play games at home or close by, if given the opportunity) that is not a fair set-up for a game that, by definition, should offer no advantages to either team (other than the advantages that each team has within its own control, such as player selection, coaching, etc.).

In other words, the OHSAA, as the ostensibly neutral organizer of these championship games should be striving to offer NO advantage to any competing teams-- and should seek to minimize granting any advantage to any teams, wherever feasible and reasonable-- and it is quite feasible and reasonable to provide a fairer venue for these games than Canton. It's the REASON WHY, in the games leading up to the state finals, the OHSAA seeks to find playing venues that are fairly positioned between the two competing schools; why that is NOT a consideration of the OHSAA, when it comes to the final game, is both ridiculous and incomprehensible.
 

4GX

Well-known member
You want equally fair and neutral meaning the same distance between the two competing schools.

Goodluck with tyat.
The OHSAA takes that consideration into account with every game in the tournament (that is played at a "neutral" site, after the first couple of rounds)-- and finds sites that are relatively equidistant between the competing teams-- and then, when it comes to the state final, that goes out the window, and the OHSAA goes to the place that has been willing to pay the most (or subsidize the most) to get the games-- a totally illogical departure from what is done for regional semi-finals, regional finals, and state semi-finals.

Seems to work FINE, in the three rounds of playoffs right BEFORE the title game.
 

hammer89

Well-known member
You said "the entire sporting world's definition"-- that is simply not true.

It's really simple: if one team gets to stay at home, follow their normal routine, and spend FAR less time and money and effort getting to the game versus the other team's time, money, and effort spent getting to the game (which also entails a significant disruption to their normal preparation routine) then, by definition, it is not an equal challenge for both teams to prepare for, attend, and play in the game-- and, in my opinion (and the opinion of literally millions of other sports fans-- an opinion that is then supported and substantiated by the expressed desire of EVERY team to play games at home or close by, if given the opportunity) that is not a fair set-up for a game that, by definition, should offer no advantages to either team (other than the advantages that each team has within its own control, such as player selection, coaching, etc.).

In other words, the OHSAA, as the ostensibly neutral organizer of these championship games should be striving to offer NO advantage to any competing teams-- and should seek to minimize granting any advantage to any teams, wherever feasible and reasonable-- and it is quite feasible and reasonable to provide a fairer venue for these games than Canton. It's the REASON WHY, in the games leading up to the state finals, the OHSAA seeks to find playing venues that are fairly positioned between the two competing schools; why that is NOT a consideration of the OHSAA, when it comes to the final game, is both ridiculous and incomprehensible.
I didn’t ask for your opinion on the matter. I know what that is. I asked if you can find any sporting organization in America that uses a definition of “neutral site” as anything other than “not the home field for either team.”
Not if they SHOULD. If any actually do.
 

kingpin2010

Well-known member
So what happens when a central ohio team makes the championship game. Are we gonna complain how they got to play close to home? No matter where the games are played there will be schools close by that can and will make the championship.
 

4GX

Well-known member
I didn’t ask for your opinion on the matter. I know what that is. I asked if you can find any sporting organization in America that uses a definition of “neutral site” as anything other than “not the home field for either team.”
Not if they SHOULD. If any actually do.
You made a categorically WRONG statement (which I repeated for you)-- and I told you that it was wrong. Then you asked a different question about a "sporting organization" that sees things a certain way (differently than you do)-- and I didn't choose to answer you-- if I felt like bothering, I'm sure I could find one-- it's pretty clear that the OHSAA is ONE of those organizations-- at least SOME of the time.

I've made clear that I am talking about what SHOULD be happening. The OHSAA obviously feels like finding a neutral site that is equidistant between the teams IS important, for (at least) 3 rounds of playoff games leading up to the final-- so, logically, they should see the importance of that for the final game, as well. The OHSAA is delinquent in their duties as stewards of the championship tournament, to be abandoning that obvious, and clear-cut, consideration, when the final game is planned.
 

4GX

Well-known member
The difference is that they want to televise all seven games and do them right. They’re not going to have the staffing and equipment to cover seven games in seven areas over two days.
That's why Columbus-- using the Ohio State Jesse Owens Track & Field Stadium, and one other site, either Fortress Obetz or a large local HS turf field (e.g.- Dublin Coffman, Hilliard Davidson, Bishop DeSales)-- could EASILY handle the state final games, with enough seating for all of the fans that currently attend. It's just like what the OHSAA did for years in Canton and Massillon, and it has the advantage of being centrally located to ALL teams in the state-- and the stadiums would actually be close to being full for many of the games-- something that is NOT currently happening in Canton (it looks like a mausoleum for most games there).

The OHSAA televised 6 or 7 games from two sites in Canton & Massillon-- games at Ohio State's track stadium and another Columbus-area field would be the equivalent of that-- but in a central location. Moreover, it's more convenient for the OHSAA's board to attend-- they are based in Columbus. You might also be able to get back to having all the games on Friday and Saturday (if you used a third Columbus site), so that teams would not have to play on Thursday night.
 

4GX

Well-known member
I'm sure there are countless venues in Columbus that can handle this as well.

:ROFLMAO:

As I said, and you have just confirmed..... the average fan has no idea what it takes to put on a State Tournament.
Ohio State does not have a natatorium suitable for swim meet attendees to attend?
 

4GX

Well-known member
So what happens when a central ohio team makes the championship game. Are we gonna complain how they got to play close to home? No matter where the games are played there will be schools close by that can and will make the championship.
It's NOT (primarily) that one team might be close to home-- though that too is inherently unfair (I'd like to see the OHSAA make the NE Ohio teams spend the day before the final, practicing somewhere in SW Ohio, then travel up for the title game that night or the next morning)-- it's MORE that one team often has to travel so far to Canton. X fans were not bothered by the relatively shorter trip to Columbus to play a Columbus team last year-- but it certainly is irritating to travel to Canton or Massillon to play a team from Cleveland, Canton, or Massillon (as X has had to do in the final 4 times). Perhaps not coincidentally, X did better against Ig in the final in Columbus, than it did in two finals against Ig in Canton, as well as a final against McK in Massillon.
 

4GX

Well-known member
I'm sure there are countless venues in Columbus that can handle this as well.

:ROFLMAO:

As I said, and you have just confirmed..... the average fan has no idea what it takes to put on a State Tournament
Yes, it's just SO complicated. That is why the OHSAA can schedule a semi-final game, at a previously undetermined site, within a day of the completion of the regional finals-- and somehow, despite the INCREDIBLE complexity, the games go off largely without a hitch. That is why the OHSAA was prepared to hold ALL of the state finals last year in Columbus's Fortress Obetz stadium (which had NEVER held a State Tournament football final of any kind, before that)-- and WOULD HAVE, had the Franklin County government officials not prevented it, due to their concerns about the Covid-19 epidemic; even with those concerns, the Division I title game WAS played at Fortress Obetz last year, and was televised, and went off without any obvious problems for the teams playing.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
There's a huge difference between a semifinal game and the championship game.

One, unlike the semifinals, the association would want to be in attendance for the culminating event instead of relying on location supervisors ensuring things go as planned.

Secondly, having all seven games aired on TV means just one site needs setup to broadcast as opposed to multiple locations (is the reason Texas finally went with all games at one site because before only a handful of the finals could be broadcast).

Secondly, lots more fans and lots more media show up for the final than the semifinal. Even if the final is a further drive than the semifinal. It means more. Win or lose its the last game of the year. That matters.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
There's a huge difference between a semifinal game and the championship game.

One, unlike the semifinals, the association would want to be in attendance for the culminating event instead of relying on location supervisors ensuring things go as planned.

Secondly, having all seven games aired on TV means just one site needs setup to broadcast as opposed to multiple locations (is the reason Texas finally went with all games at one site because before only a handful of the finals could be broadcast).

Secondly, lots more fans and lots more media show up for the final than the semifinal. Even if the final is a further drive than the semifinal. It means more. Win or lose its the last game of the year. That matters.
Really 37000 fans for 7 games, that is a lot more fans?
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
Really 37000 fans for 7 games, that is a lot more fans?
The days of even 5000 fans showing up regularly for a playoff game are gone.

Secondly, there's a lot of things that have reduced the title game attendance. Cost, repetitiveness, easily accessible in HD on TV...

New Teams tend to draw more fans. Teams making their 4th game in 6 years will get parents and students... But general fans start tailing off. Especially when it's the exact same matchup sometimes.

Neutral fans especially. The number of 7 games and even Saturday all day fans are getting much slimmer than even 15 years ago.

And this is not just an Ohio thing. And not just a high school football thing. Live in person attendance is having more and more reasons not to attend. And sports are having a tough time making the hassle of attendance worthwhile. And it's not just a cost thing.
 
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