ELKSONE
#EPND
What's behind Centerville's fourth straight state tournament
Centerville won their state title in 2021
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What's behind Centerville's fourth straight state tournament
- Thread starter ELKSONE
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"I like Hard Work".What's behind Centerville's fourth straight state tournament
Centerville won their state title in 2021
DytnBballFan
Active member
I have stayed before on other threads this is a false narrative. No one seems to have facts to dispute me, but I'll ask, what do you mean by last several years.
Here is the history of transfers that I am aware of during this Centerville run:
Prior to 2020-21 a major player who now starts at Notre Dame transfered out of Centerville (they won state that year).
Prior to 2021-22 a player who is now at Univ of SF transfered in, played the summer with them, went to school for less than a week, then left. Never played a game for the Elks.
Prior to 22-23 season three players transferred in. Powell being the major one and he left a Catholic school to return to his home school (usually people here love that). It obviously helped for that season and this past one. The other 2 were seniors, so only played that season. I would argue they actually hurt more than helped but even saying they were good, that's one season of this run.
23-24 - no transfers. The entire roster except Powell played since at least 7th grade in the Elks system.
Do you have any other transfers that I missed (yes there was one back in like 2014 or 15 from Alter)? Still, this does not seem like the whole thing was built on transfers. They lost a major kid and gained a major kid over the 4 years. Seems like a wash to me.
DytnBballFan
Active member
While I do think there is some chance he decides to leave, the rumors have certainly died down. From what I heard, the returning players have met with him and discussed the upcoming summer schedule.
Dayride
Well-known member
The way people talked it was a done deal. Someone needs a better source.
I don't know the original posters definition of "several years" but the post is spot on for the last two years. The team of House/Rolf/Cupps was a team all traditionalists on here loved.
Three of the top four scorers on the 2023 team were transfers and the best player by far on this seasons team was a transfer. To argue talented transfers haven't been partly responsible for Centerville's run the last couple years is delusional. Doesn't mean they/Cupps did anything wrong or diminish what they accomplished, but without those three they aren't making it to state either year.
DytnBballFan
Active member
No one is stating Powell isn't a huge reason for their success the last two seasons. But that is one transfer. Powell was the best player but he did not have a great year and yet they still made it to the state finals. Must have had some other talent. As for the other two, they weren't on the team this year. And as I've said, didn't help last year that much. Yes they were 3 and 4 in scoring on the season but look at the last 3 tournament games specifically. They didn't help. Playing the younger kids, who were more talented, earlier in that season would have made that team better by seasons end and this years team may have avoided all the growing pains during the regular season.
These are wild takes, it sounds disgruntled parent-like.
2024 -Powell averaged 19ppg and was OHSBCA state player of the year, but you discount his season to build up the other guys.
2023 - You say the other two transfers, who both shot over 50% and averaged over 15ppg combined, should have sat to let the more talented younger guys play so the team would have been better. Tommy averaged 7 and 5 on 71% shooting in the regional games which they won by 7 and 11, not to mention his defensive presence. I'd say that is helping lol
Not many people anywhere question Cupps decisions because the success speaks for itself. Saying he did a bad job with personnel decisions is a first for these boards.
Wow... seems as though someone had a big bowl of salty flakes for breakfast this morning...
No saltiness here, just supporting the original poster. I love Centerville's program and appreciate all they have done and I agree with most, that Cupps is one of the best to ever do it.
DytnBballFan
Active member
Didn't know that to disagree with a coach meant you had to be a disgruntled parent (I'm not - my kids graduated from a different school but I do wish they had played for Cupps). Think the kid who transferred out probably disagreed with some decisions. He is a great coach but not perfect. I'm not going to rip into the kids who came in. They were nice players but in my opinion, had they not transferred in, Centerville still would have gotten to state that year based on the players they already had in house. The players who got them to the State Finals this year. The 2 transfers were nice players but did not make a difference. Insert two of the new starters this year and the team last year does the same, if not better. Just my opinion, but i think that was proven this year when those kids got to play. Awards are meaningless to me (commit to OSU and you automatically become Mr Basketball). Powell had a great season. Not as good as the year before in my opinion but he is a great player.
I respect that everyone can have their own opinion, and I can't prove you wrong that if he played kids he didn't trust to put on the floor instead of the kids that shot 50% on over 300 shots they would have been just as good. But anyone that has ever coached kids would agree that performance in Year 2 does not mean performance would have happened in Year 1. Kids change so much in a year
This "Foxhole Friends" video gives an additional insight into this year's team:What's behind Centerville's fourth straight state tournament
Centerville won their state title in 2021
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
This checks out with what I'd heard about them in chunks over the course of the year. It sounded like compared to the last few years, this group was struggling with the buy-in, intangibles, discipline, etc., and it showed in how while winning the GWOC again, they were much closer to the pack this year.
This might have been his best coaching job at Centerville IMO. After a lot of headaches and growing pains, this group started clicking late in the year and peaked at tournament time. Enormous growth from where they started to where they finished.
I can chime in…years back when Cupps was a sophomore? Junior?…I was at the tournament game against Moe at Cintas…Moe was clearly bigger and more physical…instead of pressing that advantage…pounding the ball..killing pick and rolls Moe was running their “offense”…The Elks were patient on defense and absorbed what was a lack of rim pressure. End of a close game…which should have been a dominant game by Moeller…Cupps hits a 3 to beat them…Cupps Sr just adapts…Saw them against Fairfield maybe the next year…adapted to the style and won…saw them this year…ditto..figure it out and go…I have zero connection to the Elks or any D1 school (I am a D3 Madeira fan) but I was impressed …that guy can flat out coach!
I'm a conservative traditionalist when it comes to my preference of how a team should look. But facts are stubborn things, and facts are today with all the AAU influence on the best programs, quality coaching and quality transfers are going to be required to win at the big school level.
Even the coach is a transfer. How many state appearances would Grahm have today if he had stayed with them? Cupps and his program which includes talent infusion via transfers is the reason for the results.
DonJuanDeMarco
Active member
Conservative traditionalist in that you would prefer every coach to remain at the first job they ever get?
Agree with all of this. My preference to have coaches stay at schools for 40 years and kids play in their program from K-12 can't get in the way of seeing reality. I used to think getting transfers was a stain on programs, but in today's world it is almost a must to compete at the top levels every year.
For me, yes
.Stay and build a bottom up program that develops home-grown kids. But for many reasons that isn't reality and I understand thatI think this is a bit much. They lost their last three regular season games and were a bad call away from only having one win in February, so I don't know how you say they were clicking late in the year. The only team they beat in the tournament that had comparable talent was Moeller. His best coaching jobs were the years before he had D1 talent and he'd go toe-to-toe with those who did. I give more credit for that than righting a talented team's ship that had gone off course.
DytnBballFan
Active member
I find it funny that someone thinks of Cupps himself as a transfer after 12 or 13 seasons. However, had he stayed at Graham, he would have 4 district titles and 3 trips to State because he still would have had Gabe and that is enough at that level. So really only gets one more trip to state by "transferring" to Centerville.
I am not a traditionalist. I actually have no issue with kids transferring to a better fit. Many players have to deal with terrible ego maniac coaches with no recourse because they can't just transfer. I prefer parents kids have some power in the situation. My kids went to a private school so I also like that route.
But one legit transfer does not make the whole program built on transfers. It helps. All 4 D1 semi finalists had a transfer help them. Both Whitmer and Hayes had one before this season. St Iggy is private. Centerville has Powell 2 years ago. Good for all of them.
And I also agree with the poster that Cupps did better jobs before he had teams littered with D1 players. They did only beat one team with comparable talent in tournament. That was my point all season and why I always felt they would make it to at least that game against Moeller. It wasn't just coaching. Cupps did a good job this year but there was more to it.
Talent was there. Way more than others believe. The difference was no one knew those kids because they hadnt played. When Rohlf, House and Cupps got there, Centerville had no talent so they played right away (well House sat his freshman year). The kids this season sat behind those guys. However, outside of the high school world, they were playing high level AAU and drawing college interest and offers. The team was very talented. Traditionalalists should love that those kids stayed and waited despite opportunities, offers and rumors that they were leaving. Cupps did a good job pulling it together but this was far from his best coaching job.
I am not a traditionalist. I actually have no issue with kids transferring to a better fit. Many players have to deal with terrible ego maniac coaches with no recourse because they can't just transfer. I prefer parents kids have some power in the situation. My kids went to a private school so I also like that route.
But one legit transfer does not make the whole program built on transfers. It helps. All 4 D1 semi finalists had a transfer help them. Both Whitmer and Hayes had one before this season. St Iggy is private. Centerville has Powell 2 years ago. Good for all of them.
And I also agree with the poster that Cupps did better jobs before he had teams littered with D1 players. They did only beat one team with comparable talent in tournament. That was my point all season and why I always felt they would make it to at least that game against Moeller. It wasn't just coaching. Cupps did a good job this year but there was more to it.
Talent was there. Way more than others believe. The difference was no one knew those kids because they hadnt played. When Rohlf, House and Cupps got there, Centerville had no talent so they played right away (well House sat his freshman year). The kids this season sat behind those guys. However, outside of the high school world, they were playing high level AAU and drawing college interest and offers. The team was very talented. Traditionalalists should love that those kids stayed and waited despite opportunities, offers and rumors that they were leaving. Cupps did a good job pulling it together but this was far from his best coaching job.
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Cupps best job was when he went to state with Graham in 08' with no D1 talent in the midst of the Dunbar and Thurgood teams (filled with D1 talent even pros), runs to state which is why he went to Centerville so he could attract D1 talent, build his program, win state championships and make deep tournament runs but the point that everyone is missing is he did not win a state title until he had D1 talent despite his outstanding coaching. How successful a coach is, is determined by how much talent he has.
catscatscats
Well-known member
Actually Graham did have a d1 player. Low level d1 but still d1. Josh Schuler went to North Dakota st