High school State title talk!

E

E&c23A

Moderated User
Are we robbing our kids of state titles because we believe that D1 is better ,because at the end of the day they all celebrate at the same event ?
 
 
I'm with MitsulHer on not knowing what you mean by robbing our kids of state titles but I will jump in. With the exception of 175, 190, 215 I think the belief of D1 over D2/D3 is fairly straight forward and in most cases settled in the regular season.
Exceptions
175 - Crumblett did beat Thomas in 9-4 SV during the season
190 - Neitenbach did beat Kowalski 17-6 in season
215 - Shulaw has more dominant wins over common opponents
On the same logic I would put Mattin, Campbell, and Dominique over the D2 Champ but not D1.
All 3 Division State Champs are great accomplishments and I personally wouldn't agree with anyone trying to "rob" them but as you said the belief that D1 is better than D2 or D3 seems to be pretty easy to see for over 75% of the weight classes. There are always going to be the exceptions but I feel like that % is fairly consistent over the years.
 
Ztrain said:
If you combine D2 and D3 together, how many state championships would they have won over D1 opponents this or last year? I would say Shulaw and possibly Neitenbach are the only two. There is some very good D2&3 wrestlers, but they don’t match up with the D1 talent period!
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Gunner Cramblett and Brogan Tucker would have won titles at D1. Dillion Campbell would have stayed at 126 and won a title.
 
Ztrain said:
If you combine D2 and D3 together, how many state championships would they have won over D1 opponents this or last year? I would say Shulaw and possibly Neitenbach are the only two. There is some very good D2&3 wrestlers, but they don’t match up with the D1 talent period!
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Yes the talent in D1 is very good, but to say the other divisions don't match up period I think is a bit farse. If you want to say the depth doesn't match up, I think that's more accurate.

Looking at the champs SPGT mentioned - if just comparing D2/D3 vs D1:
Cramblett wins in D1 (had an in season win over Thomas)
Tucker - If we're taking only 1 of D2/D3 champ to wrestle D1 champ is Tucker even the pick? He lost handily to Dominique at Ironman.
Campbell - For the sake of this debate, you can't change the weight he decides to go now. If going based off weight he won a state title at (132) he loses to Blaze.
 
WashtenawCounty said:
Yes the talent in D1 is very good, but to say the other divisions don't match up period I think is a bit farse. If you want to say the depth doesn't match up, I think that's more accurate.

Looking at the champs SPGT mentioned - if just comparing D2/D3 vs D1:
Cramblett wins in D1 (had an in season win over Thomas)
Tucker - If we're taking only 1 of D2/D3 champ to wrestle D1 champ is Tucker even the pick? He lost handily to Dominique at Ironman.
Campbell - For the sake of this debate, you can't change the weight he decides to go now. If going based off weight he won a state title at (132) he loses to Blaze.
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Tucker did lose to Dominque in an 11:30 PM qrt final at Ironman that had Dominque 20 pounds over weight hence his MFF in the semis, the first tournament of the year, since Dominque got beat by Blackburn who got beat up by Petite, who Tucker majored at GIT. Petite goes to SV with Bennett state semis. This is exactly why this statement is stupid. Any of these boys can beat the other on any given day!
 
MitSulHer said:
No idea what you are saying, or trying to say?

D1 has the most depth and hardest to win. All three div hav great top end talent.
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I understand that D1 is the hardest to win at some weights and some kids may never win a state title because of a kid or too that may have their number,but the disrespect for D2 and D3 is just awful.those kids competing in those divisions deserve better from the critics because it’s not like kids are not wrestling each other at other tournaments.Ohio as a whole has some of the best kids in country and for us to say that your D2 or d3 title is less than a d1 title is the robbery
 
SPGT said:
Tucker did lose to Dominque in an 11:30 PM qrt final at Ironman that had Dominque 20 pounds over weight hence his MFF in the semis, the first tournament of the year, since Dominque got beat by Blackburn who got beat up by Petite, who Tucker majored at GIT. Petite goes to SV with Bennett state semis. This is exactly why this statement is stupid. Any of these boys can beat the other on any given day!
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I would agree with you for sure that it seems silly to have these debates because as you mentioned anyone can beat anyone on any given day. For example (and there are a million others), who had Mazur going 1-2 and not placing at the state tournament?
 
SPGT said:
Tucker did lose to Dominque in an 11:30 PM qrt final at Ironman that had Dominque 20 pounds over weight hence his MFF in the semis, the first tournament of the year, since Dominque got beat by Blackburn who got beat up by Petite, who Tucker majored at GIT. Petite goes to SV with Bennett state semis. This is exactly why this statement is stupid. Any of these boys can beat the other on any given day!
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You're the one who mentioned that Tucker, Cramblett and DC would've won D1 titles. Funny, in tons of other posts you tell people to quit whining and making excuses but offer up whining and excuses why your kid lost. I suspect Neitenbach went 190 after ironman for more of a challenge as he would've destroyed Cramblett. I assume Dillon goes 126 if D1 to avoid Blaze. Plain and simple D1 is head and shoulders above D2 and D3. Sure, there are a few outliers who would win regardless of division. We all saw what happened when Graham wrestled Ed's. MP and Perrysburg would've similarly handled them.
 
dion said:
WOW! What kind of reply is this? Granted some duals are just plain beatdowns, but competitive duals (which are many) are the heart and soul of the sport.
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You could say the same thing about sectional tournaments.
Some are beatdowns.
Some are competitive.
Regardless of division.
And this is where the important part of the season starts.
 
Crab Ride said:
You're the one who mentioned that Tucker, Cramblett and DC would've won D1 titles. Funny, in tons of other posts you tell people to quit whining and making excuses but offer up whining and excuses why your kid lost. I suspect Neitenbach went 190 after ironman for more of a challenge as he would've destroyed Cramblett. I assume Dillon goes 126 if D1 to avoid Blaze. Plain and simple D1 is head and shoulders above D2 and D3. Sure, there are a few outliers who would win regardless of division. We all saw what happened when Graham wrestled Ed's. MP and Perrysburg would've similarly handled them.
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I’m not whining or making excuses, your trying to determine a state champ on single loss in the first tournament of the year! You can think whatever you want! Brogan Tucker is undefeated in March since he came into High school. Maybe if Eddie went 175 they would’ve won a team state, but I’m not so sure. The only losses Gunner had all year were to guys better than Eddie! I get the Graham hate no worries at the end of the day both boys have accomplished their goals win State titles and get college paid for. So have fun with your pointless debate !
 
Not directly on point, and of course we can only speculate, but I've always wondered what the results would be if there was a tri-meet with the three teams consisting of the D-I, D-II, and D-III champions.
 
SPGT said:
I’m not whining or making excuses, your trying to determine a state champ on single loss in the first tournament of the year! You can think whatever you want! Brogan Tucker is undefeated in March since he came into High school. Maybe if Eddie went 175 they would’ve won a team state, but I’m not so sure. The only losses Gunner had all year were to guys better than Eddie! I get the Graham hate no worries at the end of the day both boys have accomplished their goals win State titles and get college paid for. So have fun with your pointless debate !
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"Tucker did lose to Dominque in an 11:30 PM qrt final at Ironman that had Dominque 20 pounds over weight hence his MFF in the semis, the first tournament of the year."
The above quote is exactly whining and making excuses. Last I checked Eddie took 3rd at Ironman on the different side of the consi bracket than Cramblett who was pinned, so clearly he lost to someone who was not better than Eddie. In all likelihood your kid will be a D2 four time champ. He was 113 as a freshman and was not going to beat Blaze and last year was at 132 and wasn't beating Joy. In fact, D'Alessandro majored him last year and only took 4th in D1. No Graham, hate here but guys like you do a good job of making it easy for others. As talented as your kid is, the simple fact is that almost always, there is significant difference winning one or four at D1 vs D2 or D3.
 
WishYouWereHere said:
You could say the same thing about sectional tournaments.
Some are beatdowns.
Some are competitive.
Regardless of division.
And this is where the important part of the season starts.
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With all due respect, it's been a few years since there's been a good/competitive sectional in any division.
 
Crab Ride said:
"Tucker did lose to Dominque in an 11:30 PM qrt final at Ironman that had Dominque 20 pounds over weight hence his MFF in the semis, the first tournament of the year."
The above quote is exactly whining and making excuses. Last I checked Eddie took 3rd at Ironman on the different side of the consi bracket than Cramblett who was pinned, so clearly he lost to someone who was not better than Eddie. In all likelihood your kid will be a D2 four time champ. He was 113 as a freshman and was not going to beat Blaze and last year was at 132 and wasn't beating Joy. In fact, D'Alessandro majored him last year and only took 4th in D1. No Graham, hate here but guys like you do a good job of making it easy for others. As talented as your kid is, the simple fact is that almost always, there is significant difference winning one or four at D1 vs D2 or D3.
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Cramblett lost to Gage Wright 5-0, who won the tournament, and Waters who beat Neitenbach then ended up 5th.
 
Everybody you’re talking about here is awfully good. I don’t really understand…why the bitching? If you think you’re better, seek them out and wrestle.
 
Crab Ride said:
You're the one who mentioned that Tucker, Cramblett and DC would've won D1 titles. Funny, in tons of other posts you tell people to quit whining and making excuses but offer up whining and excuses why your kid lost. I suspect Neitenbach went 190 after ironman for more of a challenge as he would've destroyed Cramblett. I assume Dillon goes 126 if D1 to avoid Blaze. Plain and simple D1 is head and shoulders above D2 and D3. Sure, there are a few outliers who would win regardless of division. We all saw what happened when Graham wrestled Ed's. MP and Perrysburg would've similarly handled them.
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After Ironman Cramblett beat #1 Ohio Carson Thomas , and # 2 Ohio Miller, so definitely #1 175 in Ohio. Second match in Dual with #1 Gage Wright , lost in SV . 3 time finalist , 2x Champ , There is a reason one moved from 175 and one didn’t,They wanted the path of least resistance. All good , both are at the top, so your destroy comment is idiotic.
 
Crab Ride said:
Right in a 3-1 decision. Waters then pinned Cramblett in the 2nd period.
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So who did he lose to that was wasn't better than Eddie? They both lost to the same opponent Waters and Cramblett lost to the champ. Not sure I understand the argument against Cramblett you are making. They didnt wrestle durng the season and both bonused through state and Cramblett had wins over 1st and 2nd in D1. One of those was against the #1 ranked kid in the nation and he beat #13 and #15. That's why he came in at #12 per flo's rankings. I am no Graham supporter by any means here, but credit where credit is due. Eddie's run on the backside at Ironman was pretty awesome would be a great match if they would have wrestled.
 
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