Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Right, because wrestling at state is so easy. With your plan state would be easier by not having the best 4 kids there.
Losing on purpose
- Thread starter tennman
- Start date
I’m trying to understand what the sycamore versus Hamilton match had to do with this topic. The Hamilton kid lost his first match so he had to win the next three to make it.. He’s wrestled the Aves kid before, and beat him that time too. Your point is mute.
And as you stated the brackets randomized. I’m sure if it was in your favor you wouldn’t be commenting.
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
Several things:
1) this has to be the kids decision, no coach or parent should force this on them
2) I think it’s justifiable IF there is a significant difference between 3 and 4. Just bc I’m ranked 20 and next guy is 12, I shouldn’t be ducking them. If I’m fourth highest at 20 and other guys are top 3-4 in state and all are D1 college commits and I’ve been pounded by them, I can see taking a path that avoids having to beat the loser of future OSU and future PSU wrestler in the go-to match.
3) I don’t think is as common as people make it seem. It takes a lopsided bracket and a clear separation between 1-3 and 4th AND generally a clear separation between 4th and 5th.
We had a kid do it once. He was fourth highest ranked in the low 20s, top 3 in state (1-3) in bracket and would have to beat 1/2 in go to. Next best was a guy he had beaten 3 times and would be his go to match . He dropped down, got to go-to match against the kid he expected to see, and kudos to that kid, he won 5-4 to avenge his three losses.
Didn’t work but gave him the best chance and there was big separation between 3 and 4.
End of the day, people put themselves in best position to succeed. A guy who has no ncaa future and can realize his dream of walking out of the tunnel at Ohio state has the right to chase it if they’re caught in a perfect storm bracket
1) this has to be the kids decision, no coach or parent should force this on them
2) I think it’s justifiable IF there is a significant difference between 3 and 4. Just bc I’m ranked 20 and next guy is 12, I shouldn’t be ducking them. If I’m fourth highest at 20 and other guys are top 3-4 in state and all are D1 college commits and I’ve been pounded by them, I can see taking a path that avoids having to beat the loser of future OSU and future PSU wrestler in the go-to match.
3) I don’t think is as common as people make it seem. It takes a lopsided bracket and a clear separation between 1-3 and 4th AND generally a clear separation between 4th and 5th.
We had a kid do it once. He was fourth highest ranked in the low 20s, top 3 in state (1-3) in bracket and would have to beat 1/2 in go to. Next best was a guy he had beaten 3 times and would be his go to match . He dropped down, got to go-to match against the kid he expected to see, and kudos to that kid, he won 5-4 to avenge his three losses.
Didn’t work but gave him the best chance and there was big separation between 3 and 4.
End of the day, people put themselves in best position to succeed. A guy who has no ncaa future and can realize his dream of walking out of the tunnel at Ohio state has the right to chase it if they’re caught in a perfect storm bracket
Get outta here if you think the 16 best wrestlers in the weight make it to the state tournament. There will be districts where the the number one kid is the 18th ranked in the weight, and nobody from that district podiums, you will also have what should be state finals matches in the semis. Hell my kids freshman year there were 3 top 10 kids nationally in his half bracket.
Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Given that I never said the 16 best get there… not getting the 4 best from a particular district would certainly make sure it didn’t happen.
you cant hold back in high school.
you're Harbor freight hammer drill aren't ya! great discussion..
BracketBuster1
Active member
I have no dog in the fight so it hasn’t nothing to do with me. I’m just pointing out why sometimes it is advantageous to lose a first round match - as it was for the Hamilton kid. I didn’t say it had anything to do with Sycamore vs Hamilton. I said Springboro vs Hamilton. Springboro kid had the same record on the weekend as the Hamilton kid AND beat the Hamilton kid head to head 12-4, but because of a flawed system the Springboro kid is out and the Hamilton kid is in. Don’t take it the wrong way, the Hamilton kid absolutely earned his ticket to state and this is NOT meant to take anything away from him. It just seems like a true 4th is a no brainer and this is a prime example as to why.
DonnieDarko
Member
SPGT always looks for a way to make it easy and less work. That's why he argues for adults who are nearly 20 years old to be able to wrestle in high school tournaments instead of working harder when they're supposed to. He's also a fan of taking kids out of good school districts and going to Graham instead, literally one of the worst schools in the state. Over 70% of the school can't do basic math. He's a
.
Hammerdrill
Well-known member
Milwaukee actually.
Easy.... you mean the one that rants about "meaningless rankings" when his interest have started the ranking year off of the top of the mountain, who "punches down" at the goals of being a 'Qualifier' for individuals.......SPGT always looks for a way to make it easy and less work. That's why he argues for adults who are nearly 20 years old to be able to wrestle in high school tournaments instead of working harder when they're supposed to. He's also a fan of taking kids out of good school districts and going to Graham instead, literally one of the worst schools in the state. Over 70% of the school can't do basic math. He's a
SPGT always looks for a way to make it easy and less work. That's why he argues for adults who are nearly 20 years old to be able to wrestle in high school tournaments instead of working harder when they're supposed to. He's also a fan of taking kids out of good school districts and going to Graham instead, literally one of the worst schools in the state. Over 70% of the school can't do basic math. He's a
please elaborate on any single idiotic point you have tried to make here!
cruiser_96
Well-known member
Hey - quick question…
It is within the rules that if wrestler A executes an illegal move (ex.: illegal slam), wrestler B can state he can’t continue as a result of the illegal maneuver, receive the win, and move on - is this acceptable?
It is within the rules that if wrestler A executes an illegal move (ex.: illegal slam), wrestler B can state he can’t continue as a result of the illegal maneuver, receive the win, and move on - is this acceptable?
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Taking top 5 also solves this.
Yea as long he doesn’t wrestle the next one…
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
Hey Cruiser-quick question...
What is a "legal slam"??
Why does everyone say "illegal" when a slam, by definition, is illegal?
Just asking! LOL
You're exactly right, but often times a wrestler is returned to the mat forcibly (maybe a loud thud), and the official allows wrestling to continue. There was nothing illegal in his judgement; just a loud noise. A typical fan might deem that as a legal slam not really understanding the vernacular.
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
For the casual fan, no issue. However people in the "wrestling world" should get it right. Read Rule 7-1-1 again.
Given the example you cited, it was not a slam.
Anything that is judged to be a slam is illegal by definition. Saying "illegal slam" is redundant.
That is all! LOL
cruiser_96
Well-known member
It also repeats itself. And says the same thing again. It’s a bit repetitive, too.
See you Friday???
bucks13
Active member
I have seen it work, and I have seen it fail. I have no dog in the fight, so I do not necessarily have a stance on this. I have seen this work at the district level for guys that are in a top-heavy bracket with highly ranked kids, and for guys that have a ceiling of simply making the State tournament. However, I have also seen this backfire at the State level. A few years back a friend of mine was coaching and had explained to me his plan to have his guy lose his first match despite being "favored" via rankings. The kid intentionally threw his first match to have a nice route back to the Consolation Semifinals and get the highest placement he could. Returning State Champ was upset and fell right down to him. Went 1-2 and DNP. DO NOT try this at the State tournament as quite literally anything can happen. Upsets, bad weight cuts, injuries, short week of practice, DQ's, etc.
No down punching for being a State qualifier, only for taking a dive to go an easier path. And that is just my opinion, I didn't call anybody out by name, as a matter of fact I have never called anybody by name. if you take it personal maybe you have a guilty conscious. My interest has always been the top of the mountain, everyone can see the bottom.
Ohio Blast
Member
I thought the whole justification for the ridiculous sectional draw was to avoid these types of scenarios? Where coaches actually pick the sectional location of their preference in order to set up or avoid likely district match ups.
Jack Kennedy
New member
I thought it was daylightS savings time?
I am mostly unconscious, but my conscience is clear.
Perfect
Yep. SPGT clearly prefers his state to be soft.