2021 GCYL Football

[OnTheLine85]

They aren't forcing any schools together yet. I think that comes when they actually close a school and sell the building. In that case, there is no "battle of egos" as you put it(odd to say egos when a person would want their school team to survive).

On the other hand, if the parish priest head starts cutting sports or forcing school together then that's a different situation. I don't think they would want to put that on their plate when they have no idea of the landscape.

So you don't think the conversation of "where do the Lourdes kids play football" is going to come up?

Their parish family is Antoninus, Catherine's, and St Martins - and they currently play football with St Jude, who is in a family with Visitation. I would venture to guess that the vast majority are going to want to stick with the Jude merger. What happens when the parish committee says they have to play with Antoninus to better build the parish family?

Of course it's going to come up. It's going to be one of the first questions asked. And when I mention ego, do you actually think people are just going to go along with whatever that answer is without putting up a fight?

 

[adselder09]

it’s naive to think development is more important than actual talent. Quality over quantity.

The irony in this post is hilarious. Talk about being naive.

 

[adselder09]

I think everyone assumes when those parishes close, students will just pick a school in their family and move on. I don't think that's going to happen. With no border restrictions, kids that like sports are going to pick the family that's likely to have the most sports success. It's going to cause a large enrollment boost to the schools that already have the highest enrollment.

There are already examples of kids going to schools within their family/paired sports program. Kids from St William/St Dominic who have ended up at Victory. Kids from St Catherine/St Martin who have ended up at Lourdes. Etc.

I don't disagree with what you're saying in regards to people flocking elsewhere, but families aren't going to uproot their homes to go to these other schools and does it really make much sense to drive from Price Hill/Covedale to Visitation or Jude every day?

 

[OnTheLine85]

There are already examples of kids going to schools within their family/paired sports program. Kids from St William/St Dominic who have ended up at Victory. Kids from St Catherine/St Martin who have ended up at Lourdes. Etc.

I don't disagree with what you're saying in regards to people flocking elsewhere, but families aren't going to uproot their homes to go to these other schools and does it really make much sense to drive from Price Hill/Covedale to Visitation or Jude every day?

I agree that alot will just continue to stay in their family, just because it's easiest.

But I could see a talented athlete from maybe Lourdes or Theresa just going to Jude or Visitation. It's not that far. Sports are very important to alot of people.

 

[Omar]

You are really stuck on Price Hill. I think the kids from Price Hill they want are already in the Catholic grade schools at St. William, St. Teresa, Holy Family, St. Lawrence, Resurrection. If you are talking public school, I would be more interested in seeing Elder attract kids from the Winton Woods/Forest Park/Mt. Healthy area as well as Oak Hills, White Oak/Colerain, and Taylor.

Obviously, I’d like to see Elder expand its reach as much as possible, but for the purposes of organizing a Junior Panther Football program, it makes the most sense to pull the kids from Price Hill.

 

[Omar]

The irony in this post is hilarious. Talk about being naive.

I should’ve worded it better. I’d rather have a handful of 5* talent to develop than a bunch of try hard 3*. Quality of talent means more than quantity.

 

[cincifbfan]

I should’ve worded it better. I’d rather have a handful of 5* talent to develop than a bunch of try hard 3*. Quality of talent means more than quantity.

I couldn't disagree more. The 5* guys are normally selfish and ego maniacs. They are often cancers on the teams they play for. The 3* guys and below are complete work horses and your grinders. Give me the team full of underrecruited kids all day long.

 

[Omar]

I couldn't disagree more. The 5* guys are normally selfish and ego maniacs. They are often cancers on the teams they play for. The 3* guys and below are complete work horses and your grinders. Give me the team full of underrecruited kids all day long.

The scale is difft for HS. Drew Ramsey might’ve been a 2* if he was rated at all, but I think it’s fair to say he was a 5* HS player.

And if you’re talking about college, there’s a reason why Bama/UGA/OSU win Titles and Iowa/Wisconsin/Michigan St don’t.

 

[OnTheLine85]

I couldn't disagree more. The 5* guys are normally selfish and ego maniacs. They are often cancers on the teams they play for. The 3* guys and below are complete work horses and your grinders. Give me the team full of underrecruited kids all day long.

This is a pretty broad brush against the 5 stars. Most 5 stars are tireless workers, because they have to be.

Yes, there are some prima donnas out there that get the headlines, but there are PLENTY of humble 5 stars.

 

[Omar]

I couldn't disagree more. The 5* guys are normally selfish and ego maniacs. They are often cancers on the teams they play for. The 3* guys and below are complete work horses and your grinders. Give me the team full of underrecruited kids all day long.

Actually, this reminds me of that corny DeLaSalle movie with Jim Cavaziel. They try to play it off like DLS is just this scrappy team with a bunch of try hards that magically beats this loaded Long Beach Poly team with all kinds of high level college recruits. What they leave out is that DLS team had frickin Maurice Jones Drew and in reality, he dominated that game.

Ideally, your most talented players would be your hardest workers. However, serious talent will always matter more than work ethic. That’s just reality.

 

[adselder09]

Schools like IHM, Susanna, Ignatius, Visitation and Jude are basically going to become super teams anyway because more students, especially the better athletes, will flock to them. The rich will get richer and I think some of the smaller families, like St Marys/SMOY, Victory/Dominic, Teresa/William, Antoninus/Lourdes, James/St Anns, St Ann/Sacred Heart - will actually see a decrease in enrollment and be in danger of even further consolidation.

How can these football schools continue to pair up (e.g. Antoninus/Teresa, Jude/Lourdes) when they're not even in the same parish family? There's no way it's going to happen. How on earth are the smaller parish families going to compete with Susanna and IHM? And how are the westside parish families going to compete with the Jude/Vistation juggernaut?

At one time not too long ago Visitation was capped out. They couldn't take anymore students. St Jude reaped the benefits, but they both could face that situation before too long. I'm not sure which other parishes are in their "family" but I can't see people choosing to leave Antoninus or Victory to go to St Als Bridgetown, just so their kid can play football for Visitation.

I'm not saying you're completely wrong in that people will flock to those superteams, but everyone can't do that. The schools will be overrun. The teams won't have enough spots for one schools studs, etc, etc.

 

[adselder09]

For example, the Teresa/William family may not even be able to field a team. What's the rule on where these kids are going to play?

If you let them pick, that's pretty much the same as having select teams. If you don't let them pick, they'll just move to the family of the team they want to play on.

I can't see how the current football alignments survive with this - but if that's true, it just opens up a whole new can of worms. This is why I think you will start to see independent teams start to form.

Well St Theresa already combines with St Antoninus. And St William/St Lawrence/Holy Family and Ressurrection - which were all under St William already - have combined with Victory, along with St Dominic.

You're probably right in that they - being the league - will align with parish families, but then they'll also have a say on which programs combine for sports such as football.

I highly doubt families sending their kids to St Theresa or St William will just uproot their kids to the schools in the Visi-Jude family, and as I said before there's only so much room at those schools as is.

 

[adselder09]

I think they play for Victory. That’s why I think a Panther team of Price Hill parishes + CPS makes sense bc there’s going to be too many kids playing for Victory. Ideally, you’d get 20-30 kids on this team, and the kids are linked to Elder early.

Victory already has their parish families, plus St William's umbrella for football, but they aren't busting at the seams with players, especially at the Varsity level. St William isn't sending that many players over and I've heard St Theresa isn't sending many over to St Antoninus either. I know you're also including CPS kids, but how many kids from the Price Hill area do you think will want to come play for an Elder "club" team. It's a no brainer for the PH Parish kids, but those numbers aren't enough to support a team.

 

[adselder09]

This is going to be a cluster from a sports perspective. And because of that, the sports side will suffer with more kids looking for alternatives.

This I agree with, but the only sport that should be affected is football because of the number of kids required to field a team and also because there isn't a club option for football like there is for soccer and baseball. Basketball and volleyball teams only require 8-9 kids per team, since you can only play 5 and 6 kids respectively at a time.

 

[adselder09]

Here is a breakdown of the families of parishes the AOC created.

SW 1 Visitation, St. Jude, St. Joseph (North Bend)
SW 2 St. John the Baptist (Harrison)
SW 3 Victory, St. Al's(Ohio), St. Simon, St. Vincent De Paul, St. Dominic
SW 4 St. Teresa, St. William, St. Lawrence, Resurrection
SW 5 St. James, St. Ann, St. Margaret Mary, St. Bernard
SW 6 St. John (Dry Ridge), Corpus Christi, St. John Neumann
SW 7 Lourdes, St. Martin, St. Al's(Bridgetown), St. Catharine, St. Antoninus
SW 8 St. Ignatius

Of those families, there are the following football programs made up of the follow schools:
Visitation - itself
Volunteer Football - Jude, Als Bridgetown, Lourdes, Martin, Catharine, Bernard
Viper Football - Victory, Dominic, William, Lawrence, Ressurrection, Holy Family
St Antoninus - itself, Theresa
St James - all the schools in SW 5 and SW 6 (minus Bernard) and St John's Harrison
St Ignatius - itself

 

[adselder09]

I should’ve worded it better. I’d rather have a handful of 5* talent to develop than a bunch of try hard 3*. Quality of talent means more than quantity.

Of course you would, because you don't know anything about putting together a team. All you see is the raw talent, nothing else. This isn't college football, there is no cutting at the high school level or even the grade school. The more kids involved the better chance you have to find or bring those 5* and even 4* guys to your team.

 

[adselder09]

The scale is difft for HS. Drew Ramsey might’ve been a 2* if he was rated at all, but I think it’s fair to say he was a 5* HS player.

And if you’re talking about college, there’s a reason why Bama/UGA/OSU win Titles and Iowa/Wisconsin/Michigan St don’t.

We're not talking college, we're talking high school and grade school.

 

[Omar]

We're not talking college, we're talking high school and grade school.

And I’d much rather have 1 player with Ramsey’s talent (even though he busted his a**) than 4 average try hards.

 

[Omar]

Of course you would, because you don't know anything about putting together a team. All you see is the raw talent, nothing else. This isn't college football, there is no cutting at the high school level or even the grade school. The more kids involved the better chance you have to find or bring those 5* and even 4* guys to your team.

Let’s look at the largest HS in the state:

2024 Largest High Schools in Ohio

List of the largest high schools in Ohio.

www.niche.com

Mentor, Centerville, and West are the only ones with solid football programs.

Now, I don’t think having a large pool of players to choose from his hindrance. In fact, I’d love if Elder had 100+ kids playing Freshmen football every year. However, quality of talent means more than quantity. There’s a reason why the upper tier D2 schools can play with the upper tier D1 schools every year.

 

[Patchwork]

Of those families, there are the following football programs made up of the follow schools:
Visitation - itself
Volunteer Football - Jude, Als Bridgetown, Lourdes, Martin, Catharine, Bernard
Viper Football - Victory, Dominic, William, Lawrence, Ressurrection, Holy Family
St Antoninus - itself, Theresa
St James - all the schools in SW 5 and SW 6 (minus Bernard) and St John's Harrison
St Ignatius - itself

Bernard is with Ignatius

 

[OnTheLine85]

At one time not too long ago Visitation was capped out. They couldn't take anymore students. St Jude reaped the benefits, but they both could face that situation before too long. I'm not sure which other parishes are in their "family" but I can't see people choosing to leave Antoninus or Victory to go to St Als Bridgetown, just so their kid can play football for Visitation.

I'm not saying you're completely wrong in that people will flock to those superteams, but everyone can't do that. The schools will be overrun. The teams won't have enough spots for one schools studs, etc, etc.

The "main" schools in each family (Jude, Visitation, Victory, Ignatius, James, Antoninus) have zero chance of closing. I would agree that kids that go to these schools are likely to stay at their schools. Really no point in moving if they like it there.

I'm talking about the kids that go to the schools that are likely to close in the next decade (like St Al's, Williams, Resurrection, etc) and the kids that go to schools that are likely going to continue to decline in enrollment (Teresa, Lourdes). I think the families at these schools specifically will be taking a long and hard look at where they want to send their kids long-term, especially if they have young kids.

I think alot of the Lourdes and Teresa families will seek out Jude and Visitation, especially the athletes, and to a lesser extent Victory and Antoninus.

 

[OnTheLine85]

This I agree with, but the only sport that should be affected is football because of the number of kids required to field a team and also because there isn't a club option for football like there is for soccer and baseball. Basketball and volleyball teams only require 8-9 kids per team, since you can only play 5 and 6 kids respectively at a time.

Agree that football will be the toughest - the others are relatively easy as you likely have plenty of kids for teams. That won't be the case for some of these families for football, so they're going to have to figure out something that makes sense on where these kids will play. Because I doubt they will want to separate kids in a parish family, that goes against everything they're preaching about why they put these families together.

And to go back to the original point, I think it will lead to angst, which will lead to the start of independent teams in the next 5-10 years.

 

[OnTheLine85]

Elder doesn't seem to have very many D1 signees (at least not compared to some of the other big programs in the city) and still manages to be among the best of the bunch each year. I think that says something about their kids and their coaches.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

So you don't think the conversation of "where do the Lourdes kids play football" is going to come up?

Their parish family is Antoninus, Catherine's, and St Martins - and they currently play football with St Jude, who is in a family with Visitation. I would venture to guess that the vast majority are going to want to stick with the Jude merger. What happens when the parish committee says they have to play with Antoninus to better build the parish family?

Of course it's going to come up. It's going to be one of the first questions asked. And when I mention ego, do you actually think people are just going to go along with whatever that answer is without putting up a fight?

I am going to guess that the parish head of the family doesn't care where Lourdes students play football. He is probably glad they don't have a football program so another parish can worry about it and he doesn't have to hear any complaints or be bothered with it all.

On another note, how does it even make sense for Lourdes to be playing with St. Jude? If Lourdes was going to merge with another program, wouldn't it make more sense to merge with St. Teresa who merged with St. Antoninus?

I'm surprised it is not St. Jude/St. Al's Bridgetown/St. Martin/St. Catharine one program and Antoninus/Lourdes/Teresa another program.

 

[OnTheLine85]

I am going to guess that the parish head of the family doesn't care where Lourdes students play football. He is probably glad they don't have a football program so another parish can worry about it and he doesn't have to hear any complaints or be bothered with it all.

On another note, how does it even make sense for Lourdes to be playing with St. Jude? If Lourdes was going to merge with another program, wouldn't it make more sense to merge with St. Teresa who merged with St. Antoninus?

I'm surprised it is not St. Jude/St. Al's Bridgetown/St. Martin/St. Catharine one program and Antoninus/Lourdes/Teresa another program.

You're proving my point.

My guess (an educated guess based on from what I've heard from people in the know) is that Lourdes merged with Jude because of the many ego factors I'm talking about. You're right, it makes much more sense your way, but people get very territorial and aggressive when the football gods don't align for them the way they want. They likely saw a more successful path with Jude, and took it. So now think about the uproar it will cause if it's recommended that the Jude/Lourdes merger splinters and they have to go with their family.

And the parish heads better care about where their students play sports, because I can guarantee you the parents and kids will.

 

[MickeyMantle]

AOC has no hand in running the sports league. The parishes themselves I'm sure collect money from the sports boosters, but AOC I believe stays out of running the leagues. I think you are overreacting about it. Let's say the AOC closes St. Al's Bridetown for example. They close the school, they close the Church, they sell the school building and Church. They already have the family of parish set up for that. St. Al's Bridgetown is in SW 7 so they would have students and parishoners then attend Lourdes or St. Martin. Realistically, they would probably switch to Jude, Visitation, Martin, or Lourdes. The school these families would want to go to would actually have to have room in their school though. Some schools cap classroom size to a certain amount of students.

I don't think the St. Al's school or church will close anytime soon for a number of reasons. But if that was to happen, we'd be off to St. Jude if they had room.

 

[MickeyMantle]

So you don't think the conversation of "where do the Lourdes kids play football" is going to come up?

Their parish family is Antoninus, Catherine's, and St Martins - and they currently play football with St Jude, who is in a family with Visitation. I would venture to guess that the vast majority are going to want to stick with the Jude merger. What happens when the parish committee says they have to play with Antoninus to better build the parish family?

Of course it's going to come up. It's going to be one of the first questions asked. And when I mention ego, do you actually think people are just going to go along with whatever that answer is without putting up a fight?

St. Al's is in that SW7 group as well and has a far healthier athletics group than Martin and Cate, whose baseball players have been with Al's for four years now, along with a lot of soccer players this year. I think Antoninus, Lourdes and Al's survive in this family.

 

[Omar]

Elder doesn't seem to have very many D1 signees (at least not compared to some of the other big programs in the city) and still manages to be among the best of the bunch each year. I think that says something about their kids and their coaches.

HS talent & D1 talent aren’t a perfect correlation. If you don’t meet the min requirement for height/weight/speed, you won’t get recruited, regardless of HS production.

Even if you look at other schools, it’s the same story. I still think Gus Ragland is the best QB to come through Cincinnati the last 10 years. He barely got recruited by the MAC. Cole Jones from X was one of the best LBs the last 10 yrs and he ended up at Army.

It’s preferable to have P5 D1 recruits, but not a requirement. You still have kids that are flat out studs even if they end up in the MAC or Ivy League.

 

[adselder09]

I am going to guess that the parish head of the family doesn't care where Lourdes students play football. He is probably glad they don't have a football program so another parish can worry about it and he doesn't have to hear any complaints or be bothered with it all.

On another note, how does it even make sense for Lourdes to be playing with St. Jude? If Lourdes was going to merge with another program, wouldn't it make more sense to merge with St. Teresa who merged with St. Antoninus?

I'm surprised it is not St. Jude/St. Al's Bridgetown/St. Martin/St. Catharine one program and Antoninus/Lourdes/Teresa another program.

When the two decided to merge, they both were the only ones needing help. Theresa had already merged with Antoninus. And William/Dominic with Victory. So those two were both low on numbers and needed each other.

 

[OnTheLine85]

When the two decided to merge, they both were the only ones needing help. Theresa had already merged with Antoninus. And William/Dominic with Victory. So those two were both low on numbers and needed each other.

I don't think this is how it shook out.

If memory serves me correctly, a couple years ago Lourdes actually had St Antoninus kids on their team playing as Lourdes. That I'm pretty sure of - what I'm not as sure of is why it didn't continue. I've heard (and we all know how alot of this may be BS) that the Lourdes coaches weren't enamored with the talent at Antoninus and wanted to end it so they could hook up with Jude, who was growing at the time.

I've also heard that some of the Lourdes coaches think they're the second coming of Knute Rockne as well, but that's from some of the coaches that are involved up in the northern burbs.

I do agree it makes a whole lot more sense for Lourdes to be with Antoninus and Teresa.