topperbounce
Defend the Hill
I’ve confirmed it by looking at Computer Points on the OHSAA website from 1990 through 1999. Steubenville was DII throughout the 90’s with the exception of 1999, when they were DIII.
Canfield Cardinals Schedule and Outlook for 2023
- Thread starter simkon
- Start date
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
Our state title in 1984 was D2. Prior to 1980 when there were only 3 classifications we were AAA.
simkon
Well-known member
What region was Steubenville in D-II in the 1990s? 5, 6 or 7? I am guessing they were not in the same region as Canfield then?
YTOWN
Well-known member
When the OHSAA playoffs started in 1972 & 73 Canfield was in AA but contrary to popular belief from 1974-1979 Canfield was in AAA in the Harbin computer rankings. Poland was in AAA for a few years also. When OHSAA went to 5 divisions in 1980 Canfield was in D2 from 1980-84. They dropped to D3 in 1985. To my knowledge Steubenville did not drop to D3 until 1994.
simkon
Well-known member
It doesn't seem to make much sense that Canfield and Poland would have been AAA back in the 1970s based on the size of each community at the time. Thanks for help and information. I thought we were D-III starting in 1980, rather than starting in 1985. Canfield and Poland both must have been one of the smallest schools in AAA at the time or is this an incorrect assumption? And Canfield must have been one of the smallest schools in D-II as well or is that an incorrect assumption as well? Any and all additional information is appreciated.
YTOWN
Well-known member
I don't know what the individual school enrollments were but if you think about it there were only 3 divisions so each region had about 65 or more teams. I would think that Canfield & Poland were toward the lower end of the required enrollment but I don't know that with certainty. I know the first numbers I saw published for enrollment in D2 was 335-513. Canfield had to be somewhere in tat span.
olschoolreddev
Well-known member
I remember that Canfield was D2 for most of the late 80's early 90's because Campbell was D3 those years.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
The last 10 years:
Canfield …….88-29
Steubenville 103-27
Those 15 more wins for the Big Red represent a much better playoff story. During those last 10 years we have been in 3 title games. So if you take the best 10 year run in Canfield history it still falls well short of SHS’s last 10 years. All that said, I’d love to see that matchup become an annual thing.
Canfield …….88-29
Steubenville 103-27
Those 15 more wins for the Big Red represent a much better playoff story. During those last 10 years we have been in 3 title games. So if you take the best 10 year run in Canfield history it still falls well short of SHS’s last 10 years. All that said, I’d love to see that matchup become an annual thing.
YTOWN
Well-known member
No disrespect intended but Canfield was in D3 from 1985-1991. They bounced back up to D2 in 1992 & 93 and then fell back to D3 in 94. That's the year that OHSAA went to 6 divisions and IIRC it was something like any team that was in the lower roughly 20% of its division's enrollment requirements dropped down one division. I may be wrong on that percentage. Anyway, Canfield moved back up to D2 in 1998.
simkon
Well-known member
Steubenville would have lost to most of the teams Canfield lost to in the playoffs the past 10 years.
You will never see Canfield schedule Steubenville anytime soon for a variety of reasons however. Even if given the choice between Steubenville or a bye week, and given no other options they would take the bye. Given the option of Steubenville or Fitch, they would take Fitch. Given the option of Steubenville or Harding they would take Harding.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
“Steubenville would have lost to most of the teams Canfield lost to”. That is maybe the most assumptive post ever written. Show me a list of all the teams Canfield has lost too in the playoffs over the last 10 years. When I see that, I’ll debunk that theory very quickly. Actually, don’t bother. I got myself caught up in a bunch of silly assumptions and an argument on something that there really is no argument. I’ll just keep believing that SHS would would win 80-90% of matchups with Canfield. And I’m pretty sure if there was a home and home offer that SHS would jump at it.
simkon
Well-known member
Yes they have had great teams, Steubenville wouldn’t have lost because they were bad or anything like that. Canfield only would have won because they had some exceptional teams. Steubenville has had very few down years. Canfield was one of the top 5 teams in their division most years they would have beat Steubenville, and often lost to the eventual state champion or state runner-up. Recall one year Canfield lost by like 3 points to Pickerington, who I think was the eventual state champion. That season Canfield easily handles Big Red, even though Steubenville might have even won the state championship that year. The following year Canfield narrowly lost to St. Francis DeSales who went 13-1 and gave the eventual champion their closest game in the semifinals. Both seasons Canfield was easily top 5 in D-II.
olschoolreddev
Well-known member
Ok. For some reason I always thought that they were D2. I know we were D3 from '85-'89. D4 - '90 - '99 maybe even beyond that. I just never remember Canfield being in our D3 Region 9 in 1989. I know we got alot of computer points for beating them in 1990 (I believe that Canfield went 8-2 in 1990), I just always thought that they were D2 those years.
I believe that I may have mistaken them with Salem.
bulldogcountry
Well-known member
Hypotheticals are always kind of ridiculous but you now have stated that Canfield would have handled Steubenville in 05 and 06 which again after watching both teams in each of those years that is a wild statement to make. Would have been very competitive so when you say Canfield would have handled them it just sounds crazy. You also are off on your information about 07 Cardinals as well. They did lose to DeSales but I wouldn’t have called it “narrowly” it was 27-10. DeSales also went 12-1 and the state champ was Anderson who DeSales never played.
UrsulineFan75
Active member
Canfield/Stuebenville would be much like Michigan State/Ohio state. Sure, Michigan state gets its wins in here and there, but we all know who the better program is and would win in that series more often than not.
YTOWN
Well-known member
That could be as Salem was in D2 for many of those years.
In 1990 Canfield was in D3 and finished at 7-3 so they were worth good computer points for the Devils. As you said though Campbell was D4 in 1990. Of course in 1990 D3 was only worth 2.0 first level points. Campbell received those 2.0 first level points and 14.0 second level points for beating Canfield. That's also the year that Mooney & Campbell lost in the D3 & D4 semis respectively.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
So did The Big Red. In fact
05 and 06 SHS was 30-0 with two state titles. To say that Canfield would have “handled Big Red is truly an asinine statement. Those were two of the finest teams in The Big Red’s history. They were 3/4 of the way into The Big Red’s 68 game regular season winning streak. There I go again…. “Every time I try to get out…… they drag me back in”. Al Pacino, Godfather 3.
bulldogcountry
Well-known member
And for as great of a matchup as I feel those years could have been I still give the edge to Big Red because they had a guy in Collaros that Canfield didn’t have (although Babbaro was special). There’s a reason why Collaros is the reigning CFL MVP and highest paid player in that league…
simkon
Well-known member
Canfield had a future NFL player all those seasons as well, who also led all NCAA D-I A players in interceptions one year. He went on to play for the Bucanners and Falcons and maybe one or two other teams in the NFL. He currently coaches with another Canfield player from those teams for the Houston Texans I think. NFL>CFL last time I checked
simkon
Well-known member
Canfield was trailing 13-10 but had the ball in the red zone and ended up turning it over not sure if it was a fumble or interception. And then at the end they threw a pick 6 on a hail mary to make it 27-10 I think. I do understand the final score does make the game not seem as close as it was for most of the game.
topperbounce
Defend the Hill
Steubenville Division and Region 1990 through 1999 (8 out of 10 season at DII):
1990 - DII, Region 5
1991 - DII, Region 5
1992 - DII, Region 5
1993 - DII, Region 7
1994 - DIII, Region 11
1995 - DII, Region 7
1996 - DII, Region 5
1997 - DII, Region 5
1998 - DII, Region 7
1999 - DIII, Region 11
bulldogcountry
Well-known member
Maybe this is why people like me who really don’t have a side in this argument feel compelled to say something. Sean Baker was a great player I’m not at all trying to take something away from him but clearly you are with Collaros which makes you look like a complete fool. Actually trying to put Baker over him by saying “NFL>CFL” is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on the internet today and I see some wild stuff on Twitter. There is not a coach on the planet who if given a choice of one would have taken Baker over Collaros at any level of football.
bulldogcountry
Well-known member
So they played a team close who didn’t even win their region. Steubenville played Mooney just as close in 07 and that Mooney team was loaded and at least made it to the title game. Still failing to understand why you think Canfield in 05-07 would have handled Big Red.
simkon
Well-known member
Because DeSales had a few key players injured against Canfield if I recall correctly, that likely would have altered the outcome of their next game.
bulldogcountry
Well-known member
If we’ve reached that level of hypothetical talk I’ll excuse myself from this conversation. Carry on.
simkon
Well-known member
Something to consider...
Canfield was clearly the best team in D-II in 2005
Canfield did not win the state championship in 2005
Canfield would have undoubtedly beat Central Catholic if not for numerous injuries, even the TCC posters all readily admit as much
In the Canfield vs DeSales game, both teams had players get injured. I apologize for the fact that things are so convoluted. I saw many of those Steubenville teams play back in the mid 2000s, and they were all excellent teams. But even the computer models project Canfield was the better team for the years in question, some years albeit very narrowly only by a FG. The computer models think Canfield was worse than TCC (when that wasn't the case) and still favor Canfield over Steubenville in 2005.