Tucker showing video of the Jan 6th , that has never been shown

[bob99]

NOT UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION AS IT NOW STANDS. HOWEVER. THERE IS THIS THING CALLED THE NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE INTERSTATE COMPACT WHICH IF ENACTED WOULD IN THEORY ELECT THE WINNER OF THE NATIONAL POPULAR VOTE WITHOUT AMENDING THE US CONSTITUTION.

The so called "National Popular Vote Compact" is an arrangement where if a number of States agree, that come to a total of 270 EC votes, that the so called "National Popular Vote" is won by one or the other candidate, that they will all, through their Chief Election Officials (Sec of State), declare that they have awarded their EC votes to that candidate, whether that candidate actually won the statewide vote IN THAT STATE or not!!!

Agreement Among the States to Elect the President by National Popular Vote

One-page explanation (PDF) The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact will guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes across all 50 states and the District of Columbia. The Compact ensures that every vote, in every state, will matter in every presidential...

www.nationalpopularvote.com

(RIGHT OFF THE BAT YOU SHOULD SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THAT) So in Ohio for instance imagine the screaming if the so called National popular vote, padded with illegal and ex felons or whoever California or New York or corrupt Philadelphia Democratic Party Machines allows to vote, no Picture ID or what ever, all kinds of ballot stuffing going on with mail in ballots, So Candidate A the Republican wins Ohio by a lot, but the "National Popular Vote" is close but won by candidate B the Democrat, but then Ohio Secretary of State a Democrat, gives all the EC votes in Ohio to the Democrat. ???

(It will never be enacted in Ohio, in other words) but, just for the academic interest: here is the text of the legislation as introduced in Ohio in 2017

The mechanics ARE interesting.

https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_132/bills/hb25/IN/00/hb25_00_IN?format=pdf

But as it now stands, there IS no "National Popular Vote" that exists. There are 50 Statewide votes. Without amending the US Constitution there CAN be no such thing as "The National Popular Vote"

correct?

Do you ever pay attention when somebody answers you back? How many times do you want me to say, there is no national popular vote for president. If there were we wouldn't be having this conversation. If we had a popular vote, there would be no EC votes. What you are saying Ohio would scream about is what some Ohioans are screaming about now with the EC. That is because each state does their own thing without any oversight from anyone. With a national popular vote all voting would be done the same nationwide. The same rules and oversight no matter where a vote is cast. Once again, if you had a national popular vote there would be no EC votes to worry about.

 

[bob99]

But it was not always so. see Carter v Reagan 1980 , Reagan V Mondale 1984, and Bush v Dukakis 1988

In fact after the Truman v Dewey election of 1948 the Democratic candidate won California only ONE TIME, 1964 between 1952 and 1992 where Clinton won Ca with 46% of the vote, and no democrat winning an actual majority in Ca until 1996 when Clinton polled 51% in 2000 Bush won with 53% then Kerry (D)won with 54% in 2004 and ever since, it has been solid D winning Ca with 60% + majorities.

Times change and who knows what the future will bring in terms of population movements?

y2h keeps wanting to ignore the Independent voting block. It isn't a strictly right vs left proposition.

 

[bob99]

Of course it's our business, it's an election for the president of the entire country. Rigging it to disenfranchise the voters in other states is wrong and should be called out.

No, it is an election for president that each state and territory can do as they please. That is the way it is set up. You said you like it the way it is now. Quit complaining,

 

[bob99]

Because it's my right. And until the votes are counted you don't know the result. Did you have Fairleigh Dickinson beating Purdue? Princeton over Arizona? If they hadn't bothered to show up and play they have no chance to win.

And the winner is decided by who has the majority of points at the end of the game. It doesn't matter who wins the most quarters, all that matters is who has the higher majority of points at the end of the game. And once the votes are counted and your candidate lost in your state, your vote is eliminated and it is the same as if you never voted at all.

 

[bob99]

Every voter already has one vote the same as everyone else.

But you lose that vote if the candidate you voted for loses the overall state vote. What happens to your vote? Can you agree it ends up like you never voted at all. If the candidate you vote ends up winning the election, your vote didn't help get them elected.

 

[y2h]

Do you ever pay attention when somebody answers you back? How many times do you want me to say, there is no national popular vote for president. If there were we wouldn't be having this conversation. If we had a popular vote, there would be no EC votes. What you are saying Ohio would scream about is what some Ohioans are screaming about now with the EC. That is because each state does their own thing without any oversight from anyone. With a national popular vote all voting would be done the same nationwide. The same rules and oversight no matter where a vote is cast. Once again, if you had a national popular vote there would be no EC votes to worry about.

Have you checked out the trustworthiness of the Fed government lately? You think that'll be oversight everyone can agree on?

 

[y2h]

You want it both ways. Have a national presidential election and all the votes are cast and counted the same way. You want the states to decide by EC your only concern should be how it is done in the state you live and vote in. The way it is set up now each state is responsible for how they run their election. If it is a state issue, you have no right to question or complain about any other state. You want election by EC, you have it. Don't complain.

It's not having it both ways to demand legitimate elections in every state.

 

[y2h]

y2h keeps wanting to ignore the Independent voting block. It isn't a strictly right vs left proposition.

The winner will be left or right. You can delude yourself into believing some magic middle independent has a shot but it's not true.

 

[bob99]

Have you checked out the trustworthiness of the Fed government lately? You think that'll be oversight everyone can agree on?

That's why we have a constitution that set up a check and balance government. Equal oversight in all cases.

 

[y2h]

No, it is an election for president that each state and territory can do as they please. That is the way it is set up. You said you like it the way it is now. Quit complaining,

They can't "do as they please" they can't throw away ballots, fraudulently cast ballots etc.

 

[bob99]

The winner will be left or right. You can delude yourself into believing some magic middle independent has a shot but it's not true.

But the Independent has no party to vote along party lines. I never said an independent would be running for president. We can vote for who we think is the best candidate or in my case who I think will cause the least damage. I don't look at the letter behind the name. I try to make an informed judgment before I cast my vote.

 

[y2h]

But you lose that vote if the candidate you voted for loses the overall state vote. What happens to your vote? Can you agree it ends up like you never voted at all. If the candidate you vote ends up winning the election, your vote didn't help get them elected.

Talk about having it both ways.

"If your candidate loses its like you never voted, if they win its like you never voted"

 

[bob99]

They can't "do as they please" they can't throw away ballots, fraudulently cast ballots etc.

If that actually is what happened then yes they can. If you believe the EC is the best way to elect the President than you shouldn't have any doubt of the legitimacy of the election.

 

[y2h]

That's why we have a constitution that set up a check and balance government. Equal oversight in all cases.

Which includes the electoral college as a check and balance against only large population centers having a say in our government.

 

[bob99]

Talk about having it both ways.

"If your candidate loses its like you never voted, if they win its like you never voted"

What is so hard to understand? You voted for Trump. Trump won Ohio and got all of Ohio's EC. Happier voted for Biden. Biden lost Ohio.
Your vote counted and was part of the EC vote that went to Trump. Happier's vote was discarded so his vote for Biden didn't count.
Trump lost the election but your vote was included in Trump's overall EC vote. Biden won the election but Happier vote didn't help Biden win.
Basically Happier didn't have a vote in the Presidential election even though his choice won the overall election.

 

[bob99]

Which includes the electoral college as a check and balance against only large population centers having a say in our government.

And you are assuming that large populations are a one candidate voting block. You can only see a right vs left in all elections. Why do you want to ignore an equally large voting block with no registered party affiliation?

 

[bob99]

Registered Voters by Party 2023 - worldpopulationreview.com

Republican Voters​

The number of registered voters by party will vary from year to year. Fortunately for everyone, the numbers for each of the parties remains fairly unchanged from one year to the next. That includes the number of voters for the Republican Party.

The number of registered voters for the Republican Party is approximately 38.8 million. And much like its opposing parties, these numbers are competitive when compared against the Independent and Democratic parties. Republican voters can also lay claim to having 7 red states as of the last Presidential election.

Democratic Voters​

The Democratic voters have historically held an edge over Republican voters, and recent data shows that this data is still holding true. The number of Democratic voters is reported to be around 49 million. The Dems also carried the lion's share of registered voters in States that asked voters to declare affiliation, with 36 percent of voters declaring Democratic affiliation.

What might be most surprising about those figures is that the second-largest reporting party affiliation was the Independents, not the Republicans. That leads us to the next question regarding the number of registered voters by party.

Independent Voters​

The number of people who identify with and declare themselves as Independent voters is second next to Democrats. What might be surprising to many people is that the overall number of people who claim affiliation with the Independent party is usually more than those who declare themselves as either Democrat or Republican.

The other impressive figure for those who declare as Independent voters is that 31 percent turn out for those States that asked for party affiliation declarations. This, of course, doesn't mean there will be an Independent uprising, but it does reveal the balance among the parties.

 

[AllSports12]

Still proved you are a liar. Produce the post where I wanted the states to be done away with. Produce it or admit you are a liar.

Again, your memory is failing you.

I never claimed you said it....... never.
,
What I did was ask you, "so, do away with the states?" You responded to me by asking "where did I say that?"..... then you got into it with at least 2 other posters about the electoral college.....

I never claimed you said anything of the sort...... what I did say is you and those who think like you about the electoral college will never admit that the end of the EC will result (ultimately) in the end of the states.

 

[y2h]

But the Independent has no party to vote along party lines. I never said an independent would be running for president. We can vote for who we think is the best candidate or in my case who I think will cause the least damage. I don't look at the letter behind the name. I try to make an informed judgment before I cast my vote.

There is a diametrically opposed vision of government between the 2 letters. You know what kind of government you are voting for based on which one you choose to support.

 

[bob99]

Again, your memory is failing you.

I never claimed you said it....... never.
,
What I did was ask you, "so, do away with the states?" You responded to me by asking "where did I say that?"..... then you got into it with at least 2 other posters about the electoral college.....

I never claimed you said anything of the sort...... what I did say is you and those who think like you about the electoral college will never admit that the end of the EC will result (ultimately) in the end of the states.

Liar. Who is the you and those who think like you that you are referring to? I never said anything about ending states. There is nothing for me to admit too. What I have said is that one election once every four year will have no effect on the states. Doing away with the EC will end the states?
Farfetched on your part to even suggest such a thing. How about some evidence to back up your fantasy statement?

 

[bob99]

There is a diametrically opposed vision of government between the 2 letters. You know what kind of government you are voting for based on which one you choose to support.

I am voting for the candidate. If it came down to a vote between Trump and Pence, I will take Pence. Same letter, totally different personalities and way of governing.

 

[y2h]

And you are assuming that large populations are a one candidate voting block. You can only see a right vs left in all elections. Why do you want to ignore an equally large voting block with no registered party affiliation?

Yeah because they are. Are you not aware Dems own major metro areas? Are you not aware NY and Cali, with huge populations, are beholden to Dems?

You are arguing for NY, Cali, Illinois (Chicago) to determine the direction of America. They vote exclusively Dem.

Just because people don't register a party doesn't mean they don't side with one or the other. I absolutely know people who aren't affiliated with a party but I can tell you how they are going to vote based on their viewpoints on issues.

 

[y2h]

I am voting for the candidate. If it came down to a vote between Trump and Pence, I will take Pence. Same letter, totally different personalities and way of governing.

In the primary you are voting for the same letter regardless. So your statement that you "don't vote for the letter" is irrelevant. I thought that made it clear you were speaking of the general.

 

[y2h]

What is so hard to understand? You voted for Trump. Trump won Ohio and got all of Ohio's EC. Happier voted for Biden. Biden lost Ohio.
Your vote counted and was part of the EC vote that went to Trump. Happier's vote was discarded so his vote for Biden didn't count.
Trump lost the election but your vote was included in Trump's overall EC vote. Biden won the election but Happier vote didn't help Biden win.
Basically Happier didn't have a vote in the Presidential election even though his choice won the overall election.

So if you score 30 and lose the 30 don't count? You run for 150 in a losing effort it doesn't count?

To say the vote didn't count is silly. You are essentially saying he shouldn't have bothered voting. When he cast the ballot he didn't know who would win. But if he didn't participate and his candidate didn't win he'd have no one to blame but himself.

 

[bob99]

Yeah because they are. Are you not aware Dems own major metro areas? Are you not aware NY and Cali, with huge populations, are beholden to Dems?

You are arguing for NY, Cali, Illinois (Chicago) to determine the direction of America. They vote exclusively Dem.

Just because people don't register a party doesn't mean they don't side with one or the other. I absolutely know people who aren't affiliated with a party but I can tell you how they are going to vote based on their viewpoints on issues.

And BlueDevil gave you examples of Republicans winning the popular vote. There is no way to prove which one of us is right. Nothing is going to change. The EC isn't going anywhere. I am simply stating my opinion. Sorry if my opinion hurts your feeling. Not really. I am still going to do me

 

[bob99]

In the primary you are voting for the same letter regardless. So your statement that you "don't vote for the letter" is irrelevant. I thought that made it clear you were speaking of the general.

Independents can't vote in the primaries for presidential candidates in Ohio. If I could, I would vote for Pence over Trump. Is a Rino still a conservative?

 

[bob99]

So if you score 30 and lose the 30 don't count? You run for 150 in a losing effort it doesn't count?

To say the vote didn't count is silly. You are essentially saying he shouldn't have bothered voting. When he cast the ballot he didn't know who would win. But if he didn't participate and his candidate didn't win he'd have no one to blame but himself.

Your stats still count. Does the popular vote count for anything in the Presidential election? lf you voted for Biden in Ohio and all of Ohio's EC votes went to Trump, what did your vote count for? Where did it go once all the EC votes went to Trump? Did that vote have any baring on Biden getting elected? Yes or no?

 

[bob99]

But if he didn't participate and his candidate didn't win he'd have no one to blame but himself.

You can't blame the Democratic voters for anything in the last Presidential election. Whether Biden won or not they had no input on the final results. Didn't matter whether they voted or not.

 

[y2h]

You can't blame the Democratic voters for anything in the last Presidential election. Whether Biden won or not they had no input on the final results. Didn't matter whether they voted or not.

Of course it did. You are arguing for people to not participate in the democratic process.

 

[bob99]

Of course it did. You are arguing for people to not participate in the democratic process.

Show me how it did. I am arguing for away to make every vote count in the Presidential election. You are saying the popular vote plays a huge part in the election of the president the way it is set up now?