A Look At The 2021 OHSAA State Football Championship Attendance Numbers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Glad that you replied with your insightful comment-- it's good to to see that statement I made repeated often-- let's put that up here again, so it doesn't fail to get noticed:

Ms. Washington is STILL searching for that elusive first state tournament championship in football-- or any other sport, for that matter: even that heavily tilted (home) playing field has not been enough to solve Ms. Washington's dearth of accomplishments, lo, these many (50!) years!
 
I AM angry-- that it appears that either:
1) Canton/Massillon have been able to essentially "buy" the games for their local area; or
2) The OHSAA has done what is easy, expedient, or (allegedly) most lucrative to them, in placing the majority of the games in Canton/Massillon.

Neither is a good reason for the games being regularly in Canton or Massillon-- I don't CARE if it is lower cost, or easier, or most lucrative to put the games there-- it creates a fundamental advantage for all the teams in NE Ohio, who do not have long travel requirements to the games. The OHSAA should be focused on what creates the fairest competition-- not what is easiest for them, most lucrative for them, or lowest cost for them.

I don't spend any money in Canton or Massillon, when I go there-- and I never will-- because that is the obvious reason why those towns have maneuvered to get the games there every year-- spending money in Canton or Massillon only validates their strategy.
There is no statistical basis to the thought that travel time affects win/lose record. Do the math yourself. Go over all the state finals, see who had the further travel, see what the results were. There isn’t any statistical correlation.
 
There is no statistical basis to the thought that travel time affects win/lose record. Do the math yourself. Go over all the state finals, see who had the further travel, see what the results were. There isn’t any statistical correlation.
Regardless of whether the teams traveling further have been able to overcome the disadvantage or not, does NOT change the widely acknowledged fact (at all levels of sport), that having to travel longer/further to compete is a disadvantage to the team(s) that have to do the longer travel. Otherwise, teams would NOT express a strong preference for playing at home over traveling to play an event.
 
I AM angry-- that it appears that either:
1) Canton/Massillon have been able to essentially "buy" the games for their local area; or
2) The OHSAA has done what is easy, expedient, or (allegedly) most lucrative to them, in placing the majority of the games in Canton/Massillon.

Neither is a good reason for the games being regularly in Canton or Massillon-- I don't CARE if it is lower cost, or easier, or most lucrative to put the games there-- it creates a fundamental advantage for all the teams in NE Ohio, who do not have long travel requirements to the games. The OHSAA should be focused on what creates the fairest competition-- not what is easiest for them, most lucrative for them, or lowest cost for them.

I don't spend any money in Canton or Massillon, when I go there-- and I never will-- because that is the obvious reason why those towns have maneuvered to get the games there every year-- spending money in Canton or Massillon only validates their strategy.
Well again, other locations need to outbid them somehow.

Also, Allsports where are you at to discuss the travel with Mr. 4GX

But I am impressed by your dedication to hating Canton and Massillon.
 
Regardless of whether the teams traveling further have been able to overcome the disadvantage or not, does NOT change the widely acknowledged fact (at all levels of sport), that having to travel longer/further to compete is a disadvantage to the team(s) that have to do the longer travel. Otherwise, teams would NOT express a strong preference for playing at home over traveling to play an event.
There is a statistical advantage to playing at home.

for neutral site games, there is no statistical advantage for travel. At all levels of sports. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
 
There is no statistical basis to the thought that travel time affects win/lose record. Do the math yourself. Go over all the state finals, see who had the further travel, see what the results were. There isn’t any statistical correlation.
This may be true, but there’s no argument that schools not in NW Ohio have a larger expense commuting. I heard this year OHSAA gave no money to the schools. As a fact, at least one school looked to donors to charter buses. I’m only guessing but if that school had an hour drive or less they’d have taken a school bus. As others have said, play D5-7 games near the MAC or at least rotated these divisions. Many locations can host 5-7.
 
Here’s an idea:
Maybe lower ticket prices to watch high school amateur athletes play football.
$15 to watch a HS state championship game is completely absurd. You can literally watch a professional sporting event for less. 10 years ago it was $7-9. The OHSAA is not hurting for money.
 
Here’s an idea:
Maybe lower ticket prices to watch high school amateur athletes play football.
$15 to watch a HS state championship game is completely absurd. You can literally watch a professional sporting event for less. 10 years ago it was $7-9. The OHSAA is not hurting for money.
Most states just have one ticket all day you stay as long as you want.

Usually $10 to $14 (Georgia is $23 while NJ is only $9 due to a price mandate by the state association).

States with single game tickets at one site and clear the stadium are (that I know of) :

Nebraska ($8 + 1.40 fee)
Pennsylvania ($8 + 2.00 fee)
South Dakota ($15 cash)
Kentucky
Arkansas

Nebraska plays on the Monday and Tuesday before Thanksgiving at Memorial Stadium in Lincoln. Parking is paid. Games are aired on public TV throughout the state.

Pennsylvania costs $10 per game this year. In the past they let you use your stub from the early game to get into the night game free. They stopped doing that when tickets went from $7 to $8 (now there's the covid fee because it's all through ticketmaster at Hersheypark, no cash sales). Though parking is free.

Games are 1/7 Thursday and Friday and 12/6 on Saturday. Games are aired free cross the state to anyone with cable on PCN (you can stream for a fee on their site if you don't have cable or out of state. PCN is owned by the cable companies operating in PA and is on basic cable throughout the state. They air every state final in all sports EXCEPT wrestling which Flo gave an offer the piaa couldn't refuse).

South Dakota is odd in that they play at the DakotaDome a few miles north of Nebraska in Vermillion. It's a very small dome (recently increased capacity to 9100).

7 games are split into 6 tickets. Two smallest classes are Thursday morning in one ticket. Then Thursday night, Friday 10, 2 and 7 are individual tickets. And Saturday night is the 11AAA title on its own ticket. Student tickets are $10.

The size of the stadium is why they have to do it since three games can sell more than the stadium can hold. (when I went it was 3 games Thursday and then 2 on Friday and 2 on Saturday with a longer break between games). Parking was free, though. Also games are free on SDPB throughout the state on over the air PBS stations.

Kentucky is $15 for GA/gm once they moved back to UK. The ticket includes your parking cost. Which kind of sucks if you wanted to pile a bunch of people into a car to save on parking. Also you can get all 6 games for $75 if you buy in advance.

Arkansas has afternoon and night games. As does West Virginia on Saturday. Arkansas are $7 and free parking per game plus fee. Games are aired on PBS in the state.

West Virginia does split Saturday. One game at 12 and the other at 7. Tickets are $10 ($6 advance for students) but you can buy the ticket book for all three games for $24).

Every other state I know of has an all day ticket policy (MN, ND, WY, CO, TX, LA, IA, WI, IL, IN, MI, NY, NJ, NH, VT, ME, VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, UT, NV, etc).
 
Most states just have one ticket all day you stay as long as you want.

Usually $10 to $14 (Georgia is $23 while NJ is only $9 due to a price mandate by the state association).

States with single game tickets at one site and clear the stadium are (that I know of) :

Nebraska ($8 + 1.40 fee)
Pennsylvania ($8 + 2.00 fee)
South Dakota ($15 cash)
Kentucky
Arkansas

Nebraska plays on the Monday and Tuesday before Thanksgiving at Memorial Stadium in Lincoln. Parking is paid. Games are aired on public TV throughout the state.

Pennsylvania costs $10 per game this year. In the past they let you use your stub from the early game to get into the night game free. They stopped doing that when tickets went from $7 to $8 (now there's the covid fee because it's all through ticketmaster at Hersheypark, no cash sales). Though parking is free.

Games are 1/7 Thursday and Friday and 12/6 on Saturday. Games are aired free cross the state to anyone with cable on PCN (you can stream for a fee on their site if you don't have cable or out of state. PCN is owned by the cable companies operating in PA and is on basic cable throughout the state. They air every state final in all sports EXCEPT wrestling which Flo gave an offer the piaa couldn't refuse).

South Dakota is odd in that they play at the DakotaDome a few miles north of Nebraska in Vermillion. It's a very small dome (recently increased capacity to 9100).

7 games are split into 6 tickets. Two smallest classes are Thursday morning in one ticket. Then Thursday night, Friday 10, 2 and 7 are individual tickets. And Saturday night is the 11AAA title on its own ticket. Student tickets are $10.

The size of the stadium is why they have to do it since three games can sell more than the stadium can hold. (when I went it was 3 games Thursday and then 2 on Friday and 2 on Saturday with a longer break between games). Parking was free, though. Also games are free on SDPB throughout the state on over the air PBS stations.

Kentucky is $15 for GA/gm once they moved back to UK. The ticket includes your parking cost. Which kind of sucks if you wanted to pile a bunch of people into a car to save on parking. Also you can get all 6 games for $75 if you buy in advance.

Arkansas has afternoon and night games. As does West Virginia on Saturday. Arkansas are $7 and free parking per game plus fee. Games are aired on PBS in the state.

West Virginia does split Saturday. One game at 12 and the other at 7. Tickets are $10 ($6 advance for students) but you can buy the ticket book for all three games for $24).

Every other state I know of has an all day ticket policy (MN, ND, WY, CO, TX, LA, IA, WI, IL, IN, MI, NY, NJ, NH, VT, ME, VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, UT, NV, etc).
Good post! I have often wondered what the folks in Indiana think of playing in the dome. We are led to believe that playing in the Shoe is not good because of a less then 10k crowd in a big facility is not good. Indiana seems to be okay with playing in that type of facility.
 
I think too many are looking at symptoms but not the cause. Was down South for the Thanksgiving holiday in Charleston, barely heard a Southern accent. Probably saw more Buckeye apparel than southern accents to be honest. Bottom line is in the last 10 years we’ve seen a hell of an acceleration of people leaving the Rust Belt for warmer weather and more job opportunities.

Its not that the interest has significantly waned, it’s that people live hundreds of miles away and can’t support their high school anymore. What were left with basically is family and friends being the only ones to attend, and not the entire community like it’s been for decades.

I really don’t think outside of the suburbs and Columbus we’re in for a bright future here, especially in some of these small cities and farm towns. Wont be long until a lot of school consolidation begins to occur in this state
 
Canton or Massillon is NOT a neutral site.
It is, because it is not the home venue for any of the teams playing.

except 2020, when Massillon did play in Massillon. But they lost, so again, that’s a data point against you.
 
Back in the day, I used to crap all over the OHSAA NE Ohio/Stark County cabal over hosting the finals. Today, I think
they should get it on a permanent basis. It seems like they go all out, and Tom Benson HOF stadium seems like a great
venue. At least from my seat in SW Ohio. I think the TV/Streaming is effecting attendance more than anything.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: 4GX
Back in the day, I used to crap all over the OHSAA NE Ohio/Stark County cabal over hosting the finals. Today, I think
they should get it on a permanent basis. It seems like they go all out, and Tom Benson HOF stadium seems like a great
venue. At least from my seat in SW Ohio. I think the TV/Streaming is effecting attendance more than anything.
Hardly go all out, the stadium although very nice had trash everywhere at least on the visitor side. Programs (which I think are a good value @ $5.00) were only sold on the home side. Nice stadium terrible location.
 
I AM angry-- that it appears that either:
1) Canton/Massillon have been able to essentially "buy" the games for their local area; or
2) The OHSAA has done what is easy, expedient, or (allegedly) most lucrative to them, in placing the majority of the games in Canton/Massillon.

Neither is a good reason for the games being regularly in Canton or Massillon-- I don't CARE if it is lower cost, or easier, or most lucrative to put the games there-- it creates a fundamental advantage for all the teams in NE Ohio, who do not have long travel requirements to the games. The OHSAA should be focused on what creates the fairest competition-- not what is easiest for them, most lucrative for them, or lowest cost for them.

I don't spend any money in Canton or Massillon, when I go there-- and I never will-- because that is the obvious reason why those towns have maneuvered to get the games there every year-- spending money in Canton or Massillon only validates their strategy.
Your Dr needs to up your meds.
 
This may be true, but there’s no argument that schools not in NW Ohio have a larger expense commuting. I heard this year OHSAA gave no money to the schools. As a fact, at least one school looked to donors to charter buses. I’m only guessing but if that school had an hour drive or less they’d have taken a school bus. As others have said, play D5-7 games near the MAC or at least rotated these divisions. Many locations can host 5-7.
They could just take school buses. That's what the school buses are for.
 
It is, because it is not the home venue for any of the teams playing.

except 2020, when Massillon did play in Massillon. But they lost, so again, that’s a data point against you.
It's NOT neutral, when the teams from NE Ohio only have to sit on a bus for an hour or less-- versus 4-5 hours. It's NOT neutral when the teams from NE Ohio can sleep in their own beds the day before the game, and follow a relatively normal routine, and the teams from SW Ohio have to come up (often) the night before, with a major change in routine. It's NOT neutral, when the fans from NE Ohio can easily attend the game, and give their team a vastly larger partisan crowd, versus the fans of teams from SW Ohio having to travel 4-5 hours to attend.

And yes, my school has played Massillon in Canton, and Canton McKinley in Massillon for the title game-- neither game had a neutral (or anywhere close to parity) crowd.
 
It's NOT neutral, when the teams from NE Ohio only have to sit on a bus for an hour or less-- versus 4-5 hours. It's NOT neutral when the teams from NE Ohio can sleep in their own beds the day before the game, and follow a relatively normal routine, and the teams from SW Ohio have to come up (often) the night before, with a major change in routine. It's NOT neutral, when the fans from NE Ohio can easily attend the game, and give their team a vastly larger partisan crowd, versus the fans of teams from SW Ohio having to travel 4-5 hours to attend.

And yes, my school has played Massillon in Canton, and Canton McKinley in Massillon for the title game-- neither game had a neutral (or anywhere close to parity) crowd.
The definition of “neutral site” is “not the home field for either team,” not “perfectly fair to both teams”
 
1. Cost
2. Ongoing pandemic that is spiking
3. Inflation, all costs have increased
I remember when I would make the state championship weekend like a mini vacation. Even with being only one hour away I would reserve a hotel room for Friday night. I went to one game a year in the last 3 years(watching a local school) because I don't like what they did to Fawcett Stadium; moreover, the cost almost double from ten years ago. My question to the state...What's wrong with playing the games in Massillon? SAD!
 
I went to the St Edward v Springfield game. I thought the stadium was fantastic. I thought the parking was horrible and the ingress/egress left a lot to be desired, but once inside it was a great venue. I wish they had some bars/restaurants adjacent to the stadium. That would have been nice. We stopped at Whitey's in Richfield on our way down, for burgers because it didn't seem practical to park and try to find a place nearby. I thought Eds brought a decent crowd given the number of bars in Lakewood and WestPark (Cleveland) that were having watch parties cutting into the live attendance. I understand the travel disadvantage for Dayton and Cincinnati. I thought the Springfield crowd was good, but it probably suffered because of the distance. I personally would be happy if the title games were played at the Pit (Elder) in Cincinnati. That's an awesome venue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4GX
I went to the St Edward v Springfield game. I thought the stadium was fantastic. I thought the parking was horrible and the ingress/egress left a lot to be desired, but once inside it was a great venue. I wish they had some bars/restaurants adjacent to the stadium. That would have been nice. We stopped at Whitey's in Richfield on our way down, for burgers because it didn't seem practical to park and try to find a place nearby. I thought Eds brought a decent crowd given the number of bars in Lakewood and WestPark (Cleveland) that were having watch parties cutting into the live attendance. I understand the travel disadvantage for Dayton and Cincinnati. I thought the Springfield crowd was good, but it probably suffered because of the distance. I personally would be happy if the title games were played at the Pit (Elder) in Cincinnati. That's an awesome venue.
I wonder if Omar would be banned from championship games if they were moved to Elder.
 
Regardless of whether the teams traveling further have been able to overcome the disadvantage or not, does NOT change the widely acknowledged fact (at all levels of sport), that having to travel longer/further to compete is a disadvantage to the team(s) that have to do the longer travel. Otherwise, teams would NOT express a strong preference for playing at home over traveling to play an event.
Obviously that distance helped Hoban win so much easier!
 
Also, Allsports where are you at to discuss the travel with Mr. 4GX
Been down this path with him in the past. It's futile. Paragraph after paragraph of non-essential ramblings.

Yet, he never answers how his own school's swimming team has somehow managed to win 22 of the last 23 state swimming championships and 35 of the 42 while competing at Branin Natatorium which is located in......

Yep...... Canton ;)

Apparently, the drive at the end of February is shorter than in early December.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top