Week 6: Elder(2-3) vs. St. Xavier(5-0)

And you could even expand that footprint to Mt Healthy, NCH, Colerain. They’ve had productive players in recent years come from those areas.
 
And I understand this yr is a down year. What I’m talking about is building a level of sustained success where they’re competitive at a high level on a more frequent basis. I’ve been saying this for yrs in good & bad seasons.
 
Omar said:
OH- nobody
Taylor- Kearns, both Hilverts
West High- nobody
Taft- Rudolph, Brown
Hughes- Cruse
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Did any of those guys wind up going to college for football if they were seniors? If they are still playing, what offers do they have?
 
Omar said:
I even prefaced that post by saying it didn’t mean much.
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I disagree. It points to development. Elder seems to have fairly regular success at Freshman & JV levels against GCL schools from what I recall, and then struggle when those classes become varsity players.
 
cincifbfan said:
I disagree. It points to development. Elder seems to have fairly regular success at Freshman & JV levels against GCL schools from what I recall, and then struggle when those classes become varsity players.
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I’m pretty sure the Current Elder srs beat X as Frosh, then lost to them on JV.
 
PantherVOR said:
Seven pages of the same blowhards who just love to hear themselves talk. I bet they are the life of any party they go to (if the ever get invited to parties). ?
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So what do you want us to say? You want us to continue to rip on the OL? Keep talking about how bad the kick cvg team is? No, bc then you’d be mad about picking on the players or criticizing coaches who are basically volunteers.

From what I can tell, the only conversation you’d be happy with would be outright lies or inane bs.
 
It’s not what you say it’s how many times you, Trey and cincifbfan regurgitate the same crap. It’s tiresome!
 
PantherVOR said:
It’s not what you say it’s how many times you, Trey and cincifbfan regurgitate the same crap. It’s tiresome!
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I keep saying bc every week, it’s proven more and more correct. I don’t think enough fans truly understand the old days are over. Half the feeder schools don’t even have their own team anymore. And unless you want Elder to fade off the map, they need to expand their talent pool.
 
Omar said:
I keep saying bc every week, it’s proven more and more correct. I don’t think enough fans truly understand the old days are over. Half the feeder schools don’t even have their own team anymore. And unless you want Elder to fade off the map, they need to expand their talent pool.
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Ok, so you’re a genius ? still tiresome.
 
PantherVOR said:
Ok, so you’re a genius ? still tiresome.
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I’m not and I don’t claim to have all the answers. I’m only giving my opinion based on what I’ve been able to piece together from watching these games the last 20+ years.
 
Omar said:
I’m not and I don’t claim to have all the answers. I’m only giving my opinion based on what I’ve been able to piece together from watching these games the last 20+ years.
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Yes- but giving that same opinion over and over again, every thread, every other comment is what is so incredibly bizarre. We got ya the first 5000 times you said it. Here’s an idea- you want a non-feeder kid to go to Elder? Donate $60,000 ($12,000/year plus the added little extras you pay) and make it happen. Done.
 
Mad Dogg said:
7 straight pages of no one talking about the game
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4GX said:
I thought Elder played a tough, gutty game for a half tonight; Coach Ramsay showed his usual imaginative offensive play-calling excellence-- changing up both the play selection and the tempo of Elder's offense to throw X's first team defense off-balance (after X had a dominant start to the 1st half)-- and suddenly, mid-way through the 2nd quarter, it was 14-14, and Elder was looking spry.

Then, two things happened:
1) Kemper came out and hit that home run on the kickoff return; and...
2) Specht made his usual defensive adjustments at half-time-- and X suddenly found a way to shut down Elder's offense in the second half.

Kemper's return of the 2nd half kickoff was electrifying-- but. as much as that energized X (and probably demoralized Elder), I think the defensive adjustments that X made at half-time were probably more important to explaining the ultimate result of this game. After the half, X was getting to Hambleton more quickly again, giving him almost no time to throw-- and those "quick hitter" passes to the sideline were not really being executed any more...

Flowers had been so effective on those plays in the first half-- but X pretty much neutralized him as a threat in the second half; i don't think it was unrelated to the fact that Flowers almost got his head separated from his body, on a particularly vicious gang-tackle, on Elder's opening kickoff return of the second half-- and did not look OK for at least 3-4 plays after that (despite which, Elder/Ramsay left him out there hobbling around, looking dazed-- Elder even had him run the ball on the first play after that tackle, and again, he got up not looking "right").
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Tried (see above)-- no takers.
 
PantherVOR said:
It’s not what you say it’s how many times you, Trey and cincifbfan regurgitate the same crap.
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PantherVOR said:
This crap is exactly why I call him out whenever I feel like it. It’s very tiresome! Years and years of bs from these clowns. It gets old quick and they literally ruin every Elder Football thread but could give 3 ???about Elder as a School and the other sports. Pboy will never put his money where his mouth is, Trey a habitual liar, cincifbfan thinks because he is or was a Coach that his opinion is always right. Some of what cincifbfan says is probably true, Pboy&Trey just spew a bunch of lying bs most of the time.
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Regina said:
It’s been the same conversation going on 4+ years that I know of- probably longer. I think that’s a sign of insanity. They hijack every conversation. Can someone just start a thread titled “must recruit non-feeders” and they can just argue there? They’ve completely ruined this entire site….
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The irony of ironies right here.

From the school that has lived and continues to live on “the same conversation” going on 3-4 decades now.

Can someone just start a thread called “the good ole days” and they can just talk about the past there?
 
Regina said:
It’s been the same conversation going on 4+ years that I know of- probably longer. I think that’s a sign of insanity. They hijack every conversation. Can someone just start a thread titled “must recruit non-feeders” and they can just argue there? They’ve completely ruined this entire site….
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I did that already. I started a thread called "Elder Enrollment Strategy", but all it takes is one post by Trey in a different thread and it ends up dominating the conversation.
 
Regina said:
Yes- but giving that same opinion over and over again, every thread, every other comment is what is so incredibly bizarre. We got ya the first 5000 times you said it. Here’s an idea- you want a non-feeder kid to go to Elder? Donate $60,000 ($12,000/year plus the added little extras you pay) and make it happen. Done.
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Stop acting like what we’re saying is coming out of left field. It’s a million percent obvious that Elder continues to try to hold onto legacy practices and refuses to adapt to a constantly changing competitive landscape.

This is the part that always keeps me coming back and asking the same questions - why is no one else asking these questions and what is your reason for why they continue to hold onto “the way it’s always been”

I’ve yet to get an answer from anyone other than 2-3 posters. And that tells me all I need to know - but the problem is, those same people that refuse to answer the question are the same ones who most ardently argue with me that “the preservation of opportunity for entitled legacy families” isn’t the reason. I call BS.

They tell us “you don’t care about the school”, yet those same people are the ones who continue to cling to the past and refuse to elevate a strategy that will get process and practice out of the dark ages. Which is worse?
 
Not sure where Smarty got this quote attributed to me but it’s not mine:
PantherVOR said:
This crap is exactly why I call him out whenever I feel like it. It’s very tiresome! Years and years of bs from these clowns. It gets old quick and they literally ruin every Elder Football thread but could give 3 ???about Elder as a School and the other sports. Pboy will never put his money where his mouth is, Trey a habitual liar, cincifbfan thinks because he is or was a Coach that his opinion is always right. Some of what cincifbfan says is probably true, Pboy&Trey just spew a bunch of lying bs most of the time.
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I also find it hilarious that people don’t think a lack of talent had anything to do with the St X game. It was far and away the most glaring reason for the loss.

Just another deflection to keep the status quo by a tone deaf fan base.
 
Elder+Xavier said:
OL should add 25+ pounds per year, DL 20+, LB/TE 15+, others 10+ . Of course height can impact some. Nutrition is critical. It's harder but not impossible for multi-sport players, especially wrestlers. If this is not happening then it will be hard to compete with premier programs at varsity level. Is it happening?
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I don't know. It was just an observation I had watching the Elder-X broadcast on Friday. I know X is a senior heavy team, but it was obvious they put the work in during the offseason. It seems X weight room culture is on another level than any other program. I know Elder has a strength coach now, but the commitment has to come from the players. It's a culture they have to develop. The strength coach can't babysit every player being sure they are getting every rep, every exercise and pushing themselves beyond what they thought they were capable of. It comes down the individual and senior leadership. These kids need to buy in during the offseason. Football is no longer July - November. It is year round in the weight room and working on speed/footwork. It's also eating right and getting enough calories. They have to be all in, and the ones that aren't shouldn't play.
 
I agree it’s cultural. But it doesn’t start with the kids, it starts with the adults. The adults have to build an atmosphere where everyone feels a part of the success. That is where St X sets themselves apart.

These kids come into high school at 14-15 years old. They’re clueless. They need coaches to coach all of them, not just the starters or big name guys. Do you think you’re going to be engaged in the weight room or at practice if you’re ignored?

This is where the developmental factor is super important. It’s not just the physical development, but the relationship aspect of coaching up all of your players and making them feel part of the journey, even if they don’t play a snap all season.

I think it’s BS to lay any of this blame on the S&C guy, and I think it’s extra BS to lay the blame on kids that give up because they’re not getting opportunities. As I’ve said for years, this is a leadership ,vision and development issue.

The differences in how X and Elder treat their youngest players is telling. Elder focuses on the grade school superstars and has a limited depth chart. X has two separate teams where a large number of kids get engaged at practice and playing time in games. Of course those kids are going to stick around and get after it.

The secondary X kids that develop over 4 years are no different than the secondary Elder kids. Same talent level, same backgrounds. They were just paid more attention to and it engaged them in the program to the point where they feel part of its success.

Just talk to people - they’ll tell you the same thing. No one comes into X as the “stud” - the coaches don’t care. They trust their ability to galvanize a group of young men into a unit and they know how to assess and develop talent. It’s what sets them apart.
 
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I'm talking more sophomores and juniors. By JV, the 3rd teamer is likely not going to develop into a Varsity starter. It's probably a 1 in a 100 scenario. The freshman yes, there are 3rd team freshman they may be late bloomers or just getting overlooked that may develop. I can think of a ton of examples. However, by JV things are pretty clear who has it and who doesn't.

My point is for all of the underclassman, but more the current sophomores and juniors have to be all in this offseason. No offense to the Lacrosse program, but a Varsity starter or potential varsity starter should not be playing Lacrosse. If they are, they better find time to not miss a single offseason football workout.
 
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