Trey Ruins Another Thread

[carefree93]

Its always been tough to gauge the Panthers at the freshman level as they do things different than most at that level. I think the biggest differentiator is if they have any kids capable of playing up. That’s usually the best sign of the talent level.

If they don’t have any of those, it kind of tells you what you need to know. As I’ve said previously, after this senior/junior class graduates, Elder is going to struggle to compete at the highest levels of D1 as consistently as they have. They just don’t have the numbers. It’s going to take a special class once or twice a decade like this past year.

They will always beat the smaller Cincinnati schools, but the GCL and teams like Ed’s, Colerain, and Ignatius are going to be tough sledding.

 

[cincifbfan]

Its always been tough to gauge the Panthers at the freshman level as they do things different than most at that level. I think the biggest differentiator is if they have any kids capable of playing up. That’s usually the best sign of the talent level.

If they don’t have any of those, it kind of tells you what you need to know. As I’ve said previously, after this senior/junior class graduates, Elder is going to struggle to compete at the highest levels of D1 as consistently as they have. They just don’t have the numbers. It’s going to take a special class once or twice a decade like this past year.

They will always beat the smaller Cincinnati schools, but the GCL and teams like Ed’s, Colerain, and Ignatius are going to be tough sledding.

There in lies the biggest problem with Elder's program. The freshmen do their own thing. Their freshmen coaches might be the biggest A-holes in football and have turned tons of kids off of football over the years. They also don't develop anyone, they only care about maybe 25 of the players and only really work with those players. I know back when they had 100+ freshmen, the vast majority of the team wouldn't really even practice, they'd just stand around, but be forced to run sprints at the end. That's not how you develop players.

I actually go to watch at least 10 or so teams practice each year, and I typically try to catch all levels, and the freshmen at Elder have always left me grossly disappointed.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Its always been tough to gauge the Panthers at the freshman level as they do things different than most at that level. I think the biggest differentiator is if they have any kids capable of playing up. That’s usually the best sign of the talent level.

If they don’t have any of those, it kind of tells you what you need to know. As I’ve said previously, after this senior/junior class graduates, Elder is going to struggle to compete at the highest levels of D1 as consistently as they have. They just don’t have the numbers. It’s going to take a special class once or twice a decade like this past year.

They will always beat the smaller Cincinnati schools, but the GCL and teams like Ed’s, Colerain, and Ignatius are going to be tough sledding.

I actually heard that the freshman numbers are the highest they've been in a few years, and the talent level looks pretty good. I guess trey has another 4 more years until he can say I told you so. Maybe next decade trey.

 

[carefree93]

There in lies the biggest problem with Elder's program. The freshmen do their own thing. Their freshmen coaches might be the biggest A-holes in football and have turned tons of kids off of football over the years. They also don't develop anyone, they only care about maybe 25 of the players and only really work with those players. I know back when they had 100+ freshmen, the vast majority of the team wouldn't really even practice, they'd just stand around, but be forced to run sprints at the end. That's not how you develop players.

I actually go to watch at least 10 or so teams practice each year, and I typically try to catch all levels, and the freshmen at Elder have always left me grossly disappointed.

My outside observation has been that it’s not just football. These 25 kids are pretty much the same ones playing basketball and baseball as well. If you don’t have a name coming out of grade school, it’s very very hard to get noticed there as you’re unlikely to get a real opportunity.

I can’t comment on the “A”hole coaches. Don’t know them.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

I know back when they had 100+ freshmen, the vast majority of the team wouldn't really even practice, they'd just stand around, but be forced to run sprints at the end. That's not how you develop players.

They have been better at scheduling B games. Kids have been getting more playing opportunity lately instead of the old 5th quarter playing time from years ago.

 

[carefree93]

I actually heard that the freshman numbers are the highest they've been in a few years, and the talent level looks pretty good. I guess trey has another 4 more years until he can say I told you so. Maybe next decade trey.

Fair enough - I’m not afraid to be wrong.

But like I said, lets see how it plays out over the next couple of years. Because of how the freshman team operates, they always lose a bunch going into JV. How many did they lose from last years freshman team? The current junior class lost close to 75%.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

My outside observation has been that it’s not just football. These 25 kids are pretty much the same ones playing basketball and baseball as well. If you don’t have a name coming out of grade school, it’s very very hard to get noticed there as you’re unlikely to get a real opportunity.

I disagree. Joey Stemler is a name that comes to mind as not having a name coming out of grade school, but he developed into a captain and received a D1 scholarship.

 

[cincifbfan]

They have been better at scheduling B games. Kids have been getting more playing opportunity lately instead of the old 5th quarter playing time from years ago.

Now it's been a long while since I have watched a B game, I hated those because the starters didn't have to have their equipment on during the game but the 5th string Gaurd had to keep his helmet buckled at all times or get cussed out. The coaches never really coached the B guys either, it was just a bunch of bull crapping with each other and starters on the sidelines.

 

[carefree93]

I disagree. Joey Stemler is a name that comes to mind as not having a name coming out of grade school, but he developed into a captain and received a D1 scholarship.

Of course its not true in 100% of the cases, but its definitely a trend seen there, and one of the main reasons they lose so many kids from freshman to varsity.

There are examples of kids pulling through. But the road to get there makes them the exception rather than the rule. They’re road is so much harder, hence why it doesn’t happen very often there.

 

[carefree93]

Now it's been a long while since I have watched a B game, I hated those because the starters didn't have to have their equipment on during the game but the 5th string Gaurd had to keep his helmet buckled at all times or get cussed out. The coaches never really coached the B guys either, it was just a bunch of bull crapping with each other and starters on the sidelines.

Also, many times they would use B games to put the A players in different positions. Some of the B kids would still only get a quarter in a B game. That’s downright bad.

And you are absolutely right about ignoring kids. If you’re not a starter, or a kid pushing a starter, theres relatively little development. You stand and watch.

 

[ElderHSfan02]

Fair enough - I’m not afraid to be wrong.

But like I said, lets see how it plays out over the next couple of years. Because of how the freshman team operates, they always lose a bunch going into JV. How many did they lose from last years freshman team?

I'm not sure. I would hope not a lot since they have a good chance at playing time with the lower numbers. The freshman last year surprised a lot of people. Most people were not expecting much, because of the numbers but they had some good talent considering the smaller numbers.

 

[carefree93]

I'm not sure. I would hope not a lot since they have a good chance at playing time with the lower numbers. The freshman last year surprised a lot of people. Most people were not expecting much, because of the numbers but they had some good talent considering the smaller numbers.

I agree with that, but you also have to keep in mind that the opponents best players were likely playing JV.

 

[cincifbfan]

Now, I haven't seen Elder freshmen practice in I believe 3 seasons, do they still run different plays/schemes than the JV and Varsity? I never understood that.

 

[carefree93]

Now, I haven't seen Elder freshmen practice in I believe 3 seasons, do they still run different plays/schemes than the JV and Varsity? I never understood that.

I’ve heard it is indeed different, but can’t say for certain.

Ive never been able to tell if they’re actually trying to ensure victory at the freshman level, or if the program as a whole puts so little emphasis on underclassmen development, that they just let them do whatever they want.

Underclassmen development is the foundation of a program. It’s absolutely a symptom of their numbers problem, but Elder people (Most of them) will tell you it’s made up.

 

[carefree93]

As long as they’re above 180, they’ll be fine. Closer to 200 would be a great number.

 

[Mad Dogg]

0 comments about the team but 20 comments about what they are doing wrong.

 

[SMARTY22]

There in lies the biggest problem with Elder's program. The freshmen do their own thing. Their freshmen coaches might be the biggest A-holes in football and have turned tons of kids off of football over the years. They also don't develop anyone, they only care about maybe 25 of the players and only really work with those players. I know back when they had 100+ freshmen, the vast majority of the team wouldn't really even practice, they'd just stand around, but be forced to run sprints at the end. That's not how you develop players.

I actually go to watch at least 10 or so teams practice each year, and I typically try to catch all levels, and the freshmen at Elder have always left me grossly disappointed.

This sadly seems pretty accurate. Said it once and will say it again, the Freshman Football Staff has been in place for 20+ yrs, definitely time to give some others a chance. I have a family member on the Freshman Staff and still feel this way. Best move the Freshman Staff has made in last 10 yrs is not playing Treys neighbors kid?

 

[carefree93]

0 comments about the team but 20 comments about what they are doing wrong.

I think that’s part of the point. It’s hard to know what they have based on the way they do things.

You‘re certainly more than welcome to provide some information.

 

[carefree93]

I heard it was around 215 at one point, pre covid. That could change I guess if people are worried about it being online schooling??

Wow, that’s a great number.

 

[carefree93]

Im told 80+ kids for Elder freshman football.

It will obviously fall off through attrition, but that is an INCREDIBLE number.

Great number - I hope they keep kids 25-60 engaged and working hard. Get more coaches if needed.

 

[PantherVOR]

Their freshmen coaches might be the biggest A-holes in football

I usually respect your opinions on here but this is way over the top don’t you think, almost pboy like. You probably can’t even name half of the staff.

Their freshmen coaches have turned tons of kids off of football over the years.

And yet Elder’s varsity football team continues to be one of the most competitive teams in the state year after year. Another Pboy like comment.

The freshmen do their own thing

So you really think Ramsey has no say in what happens on the freshmen level? That’s hilarious.

I actually go to watch at least 10 or so teams practice each year, and I typically try to catch all levels, and the freshmen at Elder have always left me grossly disappointed.

Unless this is in someway related to your job I find this very weird and again very Pboyesque. I have to say I have lost a lot of respect for you after a post like this. These coaches devote a lot of of their time to these kids for what I assume to be very little pay, I don’t think your characterization of them is fair at all.

 

[eastside_purple]

205 I wouldn't be surprised to see some CPS families looking to transfer with CPS doing virtual learning.

Lol at trey

 

[carefree93]

I usually respect your opinions on here but this is way over the top don’t you think, almost pboy like. You probably can’t even name half of the staff.

And yet Elder’s varsity football team continues to be one of the most competitive teams in the state year after year. Another Pboy like comment.


So you really think Ramsey has no say in what happens on the freshmen level? That’s hilarious.

Unless this is in someway related to your job I find this very weird and again very Pboyesque. I have to say I have lost a lot of respect for you after a post like this. These coaches devote a lot of of their time to these kids for what I assume to be very little pay, I don’t think your characterization of them is fair at all.

To be fair, I thought the ahole comment was out of line, but perhaps he has personal reasons to think this.

The rest of what he posted has been said rather frequently about the freshman staff by numerous posters over the years. You may not like it, but there seems to be some validity to it.

 

[carefree93]

I’ll reiterate, I don’t believe athletic success contributes materially to enrollment, at least not long term. However, I do believe it helps build a sustainable model of success within your athletic program. If you look at Elder specifically, their team will always be mostly constructed of feeder kids. How good that talent level is varies, but overall it’s usually enough to be competitive at a moderately high level. Where the real difference comes in is the few non feeder kids that are studs. Elder has had a lot of trouble attracting those kids, but the recent state title run added to the Fitness Center could help them land those kids more frequently. And those are the type of kids that help them compete with the top tier (Eds, Pick Cent, Mentor, Colerain) on a more consistent basis.

So did they get any of those kids this year?

 

[PantherVOR]

To be fair, I thought the ahole comment was out of line, but perhaps he has personal reasons to think this.

The rest of what he posted has been said rather frequently about the freshman staff by numerous posters over the years. You may not like it, but there seems to be some validity to it.

Not surprised by this response. Just because it’s been said frequently on an anonymous chat board doesn’t make it valid in my book. Hell many of those who made these comments in the past were probably your alters.

 

[cincifbfan]

I usually respect your opinions on here but this is way over the top don’t you think, almost pboy like. You probably can’t even name half of the staff.

And yet Elder’s varsity football team continues to be one of the most competitive teams in the state year after year. Another Pboy like comment.


So you really think Ramsey has no say in what happens on the freshmen level? That’s hilarious.

Unless this is in someway related to your job I find this very weird and again very Pboyesque. I have to say I have lost a lot of respect for you after a post like this. These coaches devote a lot of of their time to these kids for what I assume to be very little pay, I don’t think your characterization of them is fair at all.

You are right I can't name half the staff, but I know Nie was in charge of the freshmen (not sure if he still is or not) and he was/is simply awful.

You are 100% correct in Elder's varsity being one of the most competitive teams in the state, especially since Ramsey has been at the helm. I have tons of respect for the guy, but player development at the Freshmen level is not one of his strong points.

I never said Ramsey had no say, I said the freshmen used to literally run different schemes than the varsity and did so for years. I'm not saying Ramsey has no say in what they do, maybe he doesn't care what the freshmen do, I can't say. I know plenty of varsity head coaches, some quite successful, that couldn't care less what the freshmen do, it's one less thing they have to deal with.

Why is it strange that I go and see 10+ teams practice each year? I used to coach high school football, but stopped since I was missing too much of my kids' lives. I will definitely get back into it when they grow up and don't want me to be around; but I was missing out on too much of their prime years. I got to know many of the coaches in the tri-state area throughout my coaching career and have developed great relationships with a great number of them. I like to make sure I stay up to date on current trends, coaching, etc. While we all like to think that football practices are similar, I can tell you they are not and there have been amazing evolutions in football practicing in the past 5 or so years.

I am sorry that my observations and opinions of Elder's freshmen football are not flattering or not what you expected to hear, but it is objective and I think they are on point. Whenever your numbers drop by 30%+ after freshmen year, there is something wrong with the freshmen team systematically, especially with a team as competitive year in and year out as Elder. Kids will put up with a lot just to wear the jersey on Friday night for a school with Elder's prestige. My 2 cents.

 

[carefree93]

They give up on kids too early. It’s been said over and over. They are missing out on talent that could absolutely work into being solid contributors.

They need a better development philosophy for the kids without a name. There are so many of them that could absolutely be contributors if they are given an opportunity, especially with 2-3 years to develop in the program.

I think, as said so many times, this is where the tight nit groups push their control. The former players, their kids, the friends of coaches, the current coaches with long connections to families, the cache of the last name. Generations of relationships that mask objectivity.

 

[PantherVOR]

You are right I can't name half the staff, but I know Nie was in charge of the freshmen (not sure if he still is or not) and he was/is simply awful.

You are 100% correct in Elder's varsity being one of the most competitive teams in the state, especially since Ramsey has been at the helm. I have tons of respect for the guy, but player development at the Freshmen level is not one of his strong points.

I never said Ramsey had no say, I said the freshmen used to literally run different schemes than the varsity and did so for years. I'm not saying Ramsey has no say in what they do, maybe he doesn't care what the freshmen do, I can't say. I know plenty of varsity head coaches, some quite successful, that couldn't care less what the freshmen do, it's one less thing they have to deal with.

Why is it strange that I go and see 10+ teams practice each year? I used to coach high school football, but stopped since I was missing too much of my kids' lives. I will definitely get back into it when they grow up and don't want me to be around; but I was missing out on too much of their prime years. I got to know many of the coaches in the tri-state area throughout my coaching career and have developed great relationships with a great number of them. I like to make sure I stay up to date on current trends, coaching, etc. While we all like to think that football practices are similar, I can tell you they are not and there have been amazing evolutions in football practicing in the past 5 or so years.

I am sorry that my observations and opinions of Elder's freshmen football are not flattering or not what you expected to hear, but it is objective and I think they are on point. Whenever your numbers drop by 30%+ after freshmen year, there is something wrong with the freshmen team systematically, especially with a team as competitive year in and year out as Elder. Kids will put up with a lot just to wear the jersey on Friday night for a school with Elder's prestige. My 2 cents.

You can’t name half the staff and don’t know if Nie is still involved with the team but you can make the “objective” statement that they are the biggest aholes in football? Very funny.

 

[carefree93]

You can’t name half the staff and don’t know if Nie is still involved with the team but you can make the “objective” statement that they are the biggest aholes in football? Very funny.

He said he watched them and compared them to other teams he watched...and then gave his opinion.

As I said, you may disagree, but that doesn’t invalidate his observation or opinion.

 

[cincifbfan]

You can’t name half the staff and don’t know if Nie is still involved with the team but you can make the “objective” statement that they are the biggest aholes in football? Very funny.

I said point blank that I haven't seen them in a few years, but yes Nie was the prime culprit. I haven't seen too many coaches degrade kids like I have seen him do in the middle of practice. I also have seen very few coaches instill physical team punishment that is downright dangerous. So, yes, some of the biggest Aholes in football. Glad I could amuse you.